Technical T5 tailshaft swap for dummies, with pictures.

[Zor]

Originally Posted by Oscar73

Exactly what I needed to see. Just picked up an S10 T5 for the tailshaft to swap onto the WC T5 I picked up early from a Camaro, so I can toss that compound low 4 speed outta my 60-something pickup, and actually drive the thing on the freeway with those 4:11 gears. Great photos and advice! Now, which clutch disc works behind a 292 I-6 w/ the T5?

Tman, thanks, I figured it was time I contributed something useful.

Abomination, I didn't see it anywhere either, so I thought I'd throw it up to show everyone that it's very easy it just sounds like a lot of work. The worst part is what Flat Ernie said about getting the shifter back on the shaft with the tail housing.

Oscar73, my application is the exact same (1964 chevy C10 with a 230 I6), the clutch fix is simple. Count the splines on the input shaft of the WC unit. Also measure the OD of the shaft, example 14 spline 1 1/8" od. Then measure your flywheel probably 10" maybe 11". Call up dial-a-clutch or another huge clutch distributor and tell them you need a clutch for a whatever input shaft by whatever flywheel. Or find a good clutch shop and they might have it on the shelf. There's a place near me in Jacksonville that had it on the shelf. And if it's good the pressure plate can stay and you'll just have to buy the clutch disc.

[SlowandLow63]

I assume this goes basically hand in hand with A Ford T5 getting a S10 tail? Can we somehow attatch this to Ernies thread? Good stuff, thanks for taking the time. Now I just need to find an S10 tail.

[Dirty2]

Originally Posted by Truckedup

This is how ya move the speedo gear on a NWC when swapping to an S10 tailpiece.Mock up the tranny with the tailhousing in place,using a sharp triangle shaped file,spin the shaft while carefully holding the file in the center of the speedo drive hole,it's needs to be very close,but not exact. .You can use a making pen if ya like.Then take off the tailhousing,estimate where to make the new hole for the speedo drive gear retaining clip by looking at the the existing speedo drive hole.The shaft is very hard,I use a small stone in a Dremel tool.Ok,now make up some shims,it's about .035 of shim material needed,18 guage steel and brass is what I used.The shim needs a slot to allow clearance for the retaining clip.You see the hose clamp in the photo? That's to squeeze the shim to allow the gear to slide on.JB weld won't work in the long run,use a system like I described.My speedo has been fine for a year,no problems.

Now thats what I needed to know !

[Abomination]

You're the first, man!

~Jason

Originally Posted by Zor

I didn't see it anywhere either, so I thought I'd throw it up to show everyone that it's very easy it just sounds like a lot of work. The worst part is what Flat Ernie said about getting the shifter back on the shaft with the tail housing.

[jerry]

Only thing I can see that needs to be stressed is to remove the roll pin from the tailshaft before assembly. If you don't it will be hell to get it back apart if you need to!


jerry

[brpowel4]

Awesome! i getting ready to do this myself. i need to find some donor transmissions though. Thanks for the tech.

Bryan

[Flat Ernie]

Originally Posted by SlowandLow63

I assume this goes basically hand in hand with A Ford T5 getting a S10 tail?

Yep.

Originally Posted by SlowandLow63

Can we somehow attatch this to Ernies thread?

I'll stick it in the thread of links in the tech archive later...

[Oscar73]

Originally Posted by Zor

Tman, thanks, I figured it was time I contributed something useful.

Abomination, I didn't see it anywhere either, so I thought I'd throw it up to show everyone that it's very easy it just sounds like a lot of work. The worst part is what Flat Ernie said about getting the shifter back on the shaft with the tail housing.

Oscar73, my application is the exact same (1964 chevy C10 with a 230 I6), the clutch fix is simple. Count the splines on the input shaft of the WC unit. Also measure the OD of the shaft, example 14 spline 1 1/8" od. Then measure your flywheel probably 10" maybe 11". Call up dial-a-clutch or another huge clutch distributor and tell them you need a clutch for a whatever input shaft by whatever flywheel. Or find a good clutch shop and they might have it on the shelf. There's a place near me in Jacksonville that had it on the shelf. And if it's good the pressure plate can stay and you'll just have to buy the clutch disc.

Kool! Figgered it was somethin' like that... the clutch/pressure plate only has about 1K on it, so I was hoping I could just toss another disc in. Does the old Chevy yoke fit the tailshaft? I grabbed the S10 driveshaft, so I've got that at least if all goes wacky.

And thanks for the speedo tech, too... it's all coming together!

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Flat Ernie

Another version - not as detailed:http://inliners.org/Jack/T5tech.html As for lube, use synthetic ATF for both WC & NWC...

Im running mobil1 15/50 fully synthetic in an older wc as suggested by a racer friend. works great

Great thread by the way!!!!

[Truckedup]

Another version - not as detailed:http://inliners.org/Jack/T5tech.html As for lube, use synthetic ATF for both WC & NWC...

Jack Halton wrote that article,I knew him well,he died before completing the project.on the speedo, I tried the epoxy,it didn't work for me so I modified his idea into the tight shim fit.

[Flat Ernie]

Originally Posted by Scott

Im running mobil1 15/50 fully synthetic in an older wc as suggested by a racer friend. works great

Great thread by the way!!!!

That's too thick for the carbon-fiber blocker rings...you'll eventually run into synchro problems.That would work well in a NWC, but not a WC.

[SamIyam]

Hey Ernie, are wc t-5's THAT much better than nwc??

Sam.

[Flat Ernie]

Sam,

They are a marked improvement. Ballpark torque rating differences between WC/NWC is on the order of 100lb/ft (with differences between specific models) The key differences are bearings (instead of bushings) for the gears, and the two-piece, carbon-fibre blocker rings on the synchros.

The switch to ATF for WC was for the synchros, but most OEMs also began recommending ATF for NWC too - this was largely for shift feel.

[283nova]

can you take a 4x4 t5 that has the transfer case hanging off of it and swap tailhousings? to make it normal?

[Flat Ernie]

Originally Posted by 283nova

can you take a 4x4 t5 that has the transfer case hanging off of it and swap tailhousings? to make it normal?

Not without replacing the output shaft of the trans, which requires disassembly. If you're rebuilding anyway, it's no big deal, but it sucks to tear open a box just to swap guts around...better to start off with what you need.

[Snarl]

I've never seen a GM T5 with anything other than ATF. Even my '83 S10 shop manual said ATF.

If you are looking to buy a used T5, check to see if it has gear lube or ATF in it. If gear lube, it's probably junk...

[283nova]

Originally Posted by Flat Ernie

Not without replacing the output shaft of the trans, which requires disassembly. If you're rebuilding anyway, it's no big deal, but it sucks to tear open a box just to swap guts around...better to start off with what you need.

good to know thanks, i was only asking because i can get one for about 75 bucks and wouldnt mind learning how to tear it apart anyway so thats a definate maybe.

[Flat Ernie]

My 1983 Mustang Owner's Manual says to use Ford ESP-M2C83-C which is 80wt gear oil. Later manuals covering 83-87 say to use ATF. Ford went WC in '85.

Some shops recommend MTL - which varies by brand, but seems to be about 50wt (guess).

I use synthetic ATF in all of them regardless of WC/NWC...never any issues. I believe for NWC, the ATF has more to do with shift feel than wear...

[Ole don]

Another way to hold the trans while removing the rear casting is bolted to boards and held input shaft facing down over the trash barrel. All the extra fluid goes in the barrel, and the three handed part is easy with only two hands. Plain old ATF can be used, but if a whine starts when you let off the gas in 2nd. or 3rd, then go with the expensive GM lube.

[RuFFDaWG]

Great post! I'm up to the same thing now - mating a T5 to flattie in our roadster. Two more questions:
1. What to look for to convert tailshaft unit to elec. speedo. I got two NWC T5's and the one I will use is a mechanical speedo but I want to convert it over to the other tailshaft that is an elec. speedo? I got a Wings elec. speedo. Do they just bolt up? What about the speedo "pick up"?
2. Wondered for a long time now what to do with the boss that hangs down from the bottom of the T5 case where the two bracing (?) rods attached when it was in the S10? Do ya suppose we need to rig up some braces to this? This is the lowest part of the car now -- would like to saw it off. In all the T5 articles I've seen I didn't come away with an answer for this! We be on the road soon - I hope!
Any ideas are greatly appreciated..................
-Ruffdawg