The Jalopy Journal

Gaters · 01-09-2008, 02:26 AM

A lot of responses to my first post asked that I keep them up-to-date on the build. So this is my second posting regarding my roadster, it's history with my family and my Pop.

Here is the link to my original post in case you want to read this first. If you haven't read this first, some of the references I make in tis will be tied to what I've already described or explained in the first post.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=232944

I have posted more pictures of the original fabrication Ray did to the roadster as well in part 2.

To other HAMBers that might have any information about the South Gate Gaters, please contact me. Cyclone Kevin let me know his Uncle grew up in Maywood/South Gate and was a Gater back in the day. Hopefully I'll hear and learn more from Kevin, cool stuff.

So one of the cool stories my Pop tells me about going out to El Mirage was when he'd sit in the roadster next to Ray. One of his jobs as a passenger was to keep Ray from getting a ticket driving through town. Since the race headers would be attached/uncorked and would stretched just past the passenger-side door, my dad would carry a coffe can to place over the end of the header in case cops came into their line of site. Apperently this would help quite the sound of the exhaust enough to sneak by. HA!

Dismantling the Roadster
As I disassembled the roadster, there were a number of fabrication alterations that I shared in my last post. Here are a few more interesting finds.

Somewhere in here is the original steering hole mount. Since the steering box was changed from the original A box (to a 1932-34 steering box identified by other HAMBers, thank you) the steering column had to be adjusted to mount under the Auburn dash. After speaking with a few ol' time lakesters, placing a few slotted mounting holes helped locate the steering column to its new position. You think Chip Foose would do this on a clients build?? Heh!

I posted more detailed pictures of how Ray attached the 32 center Xmember. I get a kick out of how they welded this into place. OK, so what's with the saw tooth edge on the k-member? What did they use, drill holes to seperate it?

Top shot of the welds on the Xmember. Unfortunately, I never learned to weld but I do know a good weld when I see one. Ehhh...this one got the job done...and it did hold together going 115.97mph and had lasted over 60+ years...I'd say it passes.

I posted a picture of the split wishbone bracket on the passenger side last time. Here is a picture of the drivers side. Same nice textured bracket on the other side but I haven't figured out what the small bracket just to the left is for. If you look close at the frame, just behind and above the bolt on the bracket there is a vertical weld in the frame. I found out that the frame had been repaired where it split. Hmmm...take a look a the next photo.

In the C-channel of the frame I found this L-shaped piece of steel bolted on the inside to support the structure of the frame and the weld on the outside. This repair is right under you ass when you sit in the car. Ahhh...the thrill of it all!

One thing I learned from the removal of the rearend and spring was that, if you remove leaves from the springs to lower the car, you need to fill the gap where the leaves once were. Case in point, weld filler pieces into the U-Bolts that hold the spring to the frame. Notice the one on the left has two pieces...yeah...the bottom piece of steel is a bolt with the head cut off, can you see the threads?

Here is another entry from the original SCTA program that has information about my roadster. Look at the Gaters section and you'll notice the Ray Pyle info and my roadster. You'll also notice the penned information about Regg Schlemmer and Emil Dietrich both Gaters. Regg actually tied in the individual point championship in 1947 I beleive. His T Roadster graced the first cover of Hot Rod magazine. If you haven't seen this already, a knock off of this roadster way built to commemerate Hot Rod's magazine's anniversary.
http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1...car/index.html

Ray Pyle
Unfortunately, I don't remember Ray. He passed away in the mid 1980's. He moved out to Lancaster, CA which was pretty much desert when he was out there. After he passed, my dad asked his daughter if her dad still had any car parts at his home. She didn't know but allowed us to go look if we wished. My dad and I drove out there one afternoon. He lived out in the middle of nowhere. It was a small one or two bedroom home with a car port but no garage. An old 60's truck sat in the drive way. We went around back and poked through an old shed. There sat an old B-block with a hole in it where a rod had shot through. This was at least promising that car parts where at the location. I don't recall what it was but we'd noticed a car part sticking half way out of the shrubs and desert sand. We then noticed these small piles of sand and shrubs all around the yard. We started poking the sand with stick to see if we'd hit anything. I didn't know it time but we struck gold. There we found the 2-Port Riley Head that ran in the roadster. My dad remebers that Ray ran a Riley head and that it had been cracked. We checked it and it was still cracked. I hate to tell the rest of the story because some time later, 2 or 3 years down the road, we sold the Riley head. Even though it was cracked, I cannot believe we sold the dog-gone thing. UUGH!! Now I feel depressed. There is more to this story on how and who cracked this head that I will reveal in a later story.

More about Ray. He was a true American hero. He was fortunate to have survived the WWII, coming home with a purple heart. During WWII he served as a belt-gunner in a B-17 bomber. From all accounts that I've learned, this was a very high risk job.

He served in Ridgewell, England in the Eurpoean campaign. This an aerial map of the landing strip in which he was stationed.

He was in the 381st Bomber group, 534th squadron. These are the inginia for the group and squadron he served. I'd like to incorporate the Squadron Dragon into my car somehow. I haven't decided what I might do. I'll take any suggestions.

This is a picture of "The Fox" the ship he flew the most missions.

This is a list created bt Ray of all the "ships" he flew in during WWII.

Here is a picture of Ray at his shop/gas station. It looks like he was salvaging inner tubes. His daughter Linda told me he didn't much like having his picture taken. This shot looks like the photographer knew this and caught him off guard. Can you identify the convertible in the background?

I've got my roadster nearly cleaned up and ready for assembly. I'll wait a few more weeks to post another segment on the progress of my roadster so that I have some thing to show for. I'll also reveal the story behind the cracked head.

Stay-tuned,

Chris

**Jimmy B** · 01-09-2008, 03:00 AM

Chris, thanks for the update and more history on the roadster.

Cheers
Jimmy

29bowtie · 01-09-2008, 03:06 AM

Thanks for the further history of this interesting time. You are now the "caretaker" of an important historical auto. I wish you all the best in the preservation.

Omega · 01-09-2008, 03:51 AM

This is amazing! Thanks for sharing.. I hope you can get the riley head back! althought i doubt it.. but hey..the HAMB has done wonders in the past!

**Cajun Kenny** · 01-09-2008, 05:41 AM

cool story and history .. thanks for the update..

**SUHRsc** · 01-09-2008, 05:51 AM

thanks for the update

Zach

THOMAS S&C · 01-09-2008, 04:58 PM

Thanks, very cool story and pics. I had to do the same thing to my U-bolts on the rear of my car, I did a little cleaner job of it though!

**mazdaslam** · 01-09-2008, 05:13 PM

Those "saw tooth cuts" look like a series of close spaced drilled holes were used to "cut" the crossmember out of the 32. Way cool project you got there.Please try to preserve as much of it's original character as possible.

**rustybucket** · 01-09-2008, 05:15 PM

Thanks for the update. Very well organized post, the way they all should be. Can’t wait for part 3.

Chris

**AV8-Rider** · 01-12-2008, 04:40 PM

I enjoy this.

Paul

Omega · 01-14-2008, 06:31 AM

Alot of folks missed this thread...heres a bump for you..because this car deserves attention

Big T · 01-14-2008, 07:49 AM

Great post... I noticed there were 34 missions listed, but not a 35th. Early in the WWII air campaign, crews had to fly 25 missions. Then it was bumped to 30 and eventually 35. I assume Ray was flying during the time 35 missions had to be flown and he just didnt enter the name of his final plane.

Love the story of the car and the background information is awesome. Keep the posts and pictures coming.

flt-blk · 01-14-2008, 07:59 AM

Isn't the 35th mission the ride home?

Mercmad · 02-08-2008, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big T

Great post... I noticed there were 34 missions listed, but not a 35th. Early in the WWII air campaign, crews had to fly 25 missions. Then it was bumped to 30 and eventually 35. I assume Ray was flying during the time 35 missions had to be flown and he just didnt enter the name of his final plane.

Love the story of the car and the background information is awesome. Keep the posts and pictures coming.

He got a purple heart so there is every chance he missed his final mission due to injury. Thank goodness for people like him!

**303racer** · 04-20-2009, 12:37 PM

any updates on this car this was a great thread

Bullet Nose · 09-14-2009, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaters

Here is a picture of Ray at his shop/gas station. Can you identify the convertible in the background?

I've got my roadster nearly cleaned up and ready for assembly. I'll wait a few more weeks to post another segment on the progress.

Hey Chris ......

I ran across this old post and wondered how you were coming along with your car. Maybe I've missed some of your other "update" posts.

I think that car in the background is a 47 or so Buick.

I really enjoyed reading about Ray.

Bill

**Django** · 09-14-2009, 10:32 AM

Pretty cool.

You could get an A-2 jacket and put The Fox noseart on the back and the squadron patch on the front.

Gaters · 10-02-2009, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullet Nose

Hey Chris ......

I ran across this old post and wondered how you were coming along with your car. Maybe I've missed some of your other "update" posts.

I think that car in the background is a 47 or so Buick.

I really enjoyed reading about Ray.

Bill

Bill,

A couple of cool events have taken place since this last post. Go to the last link first to see the ride of my life with my Dad in the drivers seat.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...racle+makeover
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...racle+makeover
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ht=crewl+world

My last ride has been the Father's Day LA Roadster Show with my Pop. We had a great time there too. I have a bitter gas tank that's keeping me off the road. I gotta get back to it so I can drive it and take it out locally. I miss driving it around.

Chris

**RAY With** · 10-02-2009, 02:41 AM

What a story and piece of history. Chris I wouldn't worry to much about the welds since thats a big part of how it was done back then. No doubt they have proven there worth for many years and smoothing them out would only remove Rays way.It also proves it's roots in the spirit of competition and how it was "really" done back then.

Stovebolt · 10-02-2009, 04:18 AM

Thanks for the great story and the update Chris.

01-09-2008, 02:26 AM	#1
Gaters Grenade Inspector Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Irvine, CA Posts: 394	Miracle Makeover - Part 2 A lot of responses to my first post asked that I keep them up-to-date on the build. So this is my second posting regarding my roadster, it's history with my family and my Pop. Here is the link to my original post in case you want to read this first. If you haven't read this first, some of the references I make in tis will be tied to what I've already described or explained in the first post. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...d.php?t=232944 I have posted more pictures of the original fabrication Ray did to the roadster as well in part 2. To other HAMBers that might have any information about the South Gate Gaters, please contact me. Cyclone Kevin let me know his Uncle grew up in Maywood/South Gate and was a Gater back in the day. Hopefully I'll hear and learn more from Kevin, cool stuff. So one of the cool stories my Pop tells me about going out to El Mirage was when he'd sit in the roadster next to Ray. One of his jobs as a passenger was to keep Ray from getting a ticket driving through town. Since the race headers would be attached/uncorked and would stretched just past the passenger-side door, my dad would carry a coffe can to place over the end of the header in case cops came into their line of site. Apperently this would help quite the sound of the exhaust enough to sneak by. HA! Dismantling the Roadster As I disassembled the roadster, there were a number of fabrication alterations that I shared in my last post. Here are a few more interesting finds. Somewhere in here is the original steering hole mount. Since the steering box was changed from the original A box (to a 1932-34 steering box identified by other HAMBers, thank you) the steering column had to be adjusted to mount under the Auburn dash. After speaking with a few ol' time lakesters, placing a few slotted mounting holes helped locate the steering column to its new position. You think Chip Foose would do this on a clients build?? Heh! I posted more detailed pictures of how Ray attached the 32 center Xmember. I get a kick out of how they welded this into place. OK, so what's with the saw tooth edge on the k-member? What did they use, drill holes to seperate it? Top shot of the welds on the Xmember. Unfortunately, I never learned to weld but I do know a good weld when I see one. Ehhh...this one got the job done...and it did hold together going 115.97mph and had lasted over 60+ years...I'd say it passes. I posted a picture of the split wishbone bracket on the passenger side last time. Here is a picture of the drivers side. Same nice textured bracket on the other side but I haven't figured out what the small bracket just to the left is for. If you look close at the frame, just behind and above the bolt on the bracket there is a vertical weld in the frame. I found out that the frame had been repaired where it split. Hmmm...take a look a the next photo. In the C-channel of the frame I found this L-shaped piece of steel bolted on the inside to support the structure of the frame and the weld on the outside. This repair is right under you ass when you sit in the car. Ahhh...the thrill of it all! One thing I learned from the removal of the rearend and spring was that, if you remove leaves from the springs to lower the car, you need to fill the gap where the leaves once were. Case in point, weld filler pieces into the U-Bolts that hold the spring to the frame. Notice the one on the left has two pieces...yeah...the bottom piece of steel is a bolt with the head cut off, can you see the threads? Here is another entry from the original SCTA program that has information about my roadster. Look at the Gaters section and you'll notice the Ray Pyle info and my roadster. You'll also notice the penned information about Regg Schlemmer and Emil Dietrich both Gaters. Regg actually tied in the individual point championship in 1947 I beleive. His T Roadster graced the first cover of Hot Rod magazine. If you haven't seen this already, a knock off of this roadster way built to commemerate Hot Rod's magazine's anniversary. http://www.hotrod.com/projectbuild/1...car/index.html Ray Pyle Unfortunately, I don't remember Ray. He passed away in the mid 1980's. He moved out to Lancaster, CA which was pretty much desert when he was out there. After he passed, my dad asked his daughter if her dad still had any car parts at his home. She didn't know but allowed us to go look if we wished. My dad and I drove out there one afternoon. He lived out in the middle of nowhere. It was a small one or two bedroom home with a car port but no garage. An old 60's truck sat in the drive way. We went around back and poked through an old shed. There sat an old B-block with a hole in it where a rod had shot through. This was at least promising that car parts where at the location. I don't recall what it was but we'd noticed a car part sticking half way out of the shrubs and desert sand. We then noticed these small piles of sand and shrubs all around the yard. We started poking the sand with stick to see if we'd hit anything. I didn't know it time but we struck gold. There we found the 2-Port Riley Head that ran in the roadster. My dad remebers that Ray ran a Riley head and that it had been cracked. We checked it and it was still cracked. I hate to tell the rest of the story because some time later, 2 or 3 years down the road, we sold the Riley head. Even though it was cracked, I cannot believe we sold the dog-gone thing. UUGH!! Now I feel depressed. There is more to this story on how and who cracked this head that I will reveal in a later story. More about Ray. He was a true American hero. He was fortunate to have survived the WWII, coming home with a purple heart. During WWII he served as a belt-gunner in a B-17 bomber. From all accounts that I've learned, this was a very high risk job. He served in Ridgewell, England in the Eurpoean campaign. This an aerial map of the landing strip in which he was stationed. He was in the 381st Bomber group, 534th squadron. These are the inginia for the group and squadron he served. I'd like to incorporate the Squadron Dragon into my car somehow. I haven't decided what I might do. I'll take any suggestions. This is a picture of "The Fox" the ship he flew the most missions. This is a list created bt Ray of all the "ships" he flew in during WWII. Here is a picture of Ray at his shop/gas station. It looks like he was salvaging inner tubes. His daughter Linda told me he didn't much like having his picture taken. This shot looks like the photographer knew this and caught him off guard. Can you identify the convertible in the background? I've got my roadster nearly cleaned up and ready for assembly. I'll wait a few more weeks to post another segment on the progress of my roadster so that I have some thing to show for. I'll also reveal the story behind the cracked head. Stay-tuned, Chris __________________ Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock. -WILL ROGERS

01-09-2008, 03:00 AM	#2
Jimmy B Alliance Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Tweed Valley, NSW, Australia Posts: 2,367	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Chris, thanks for the update and more history on the roadster. Cheers Jimmy __________________ jimmybarter.com blog 1925 Chev roadster build

01-09-2008, 03:06 AM	#3
29bowtie Old School HAMBer Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Maple Ridge,BC,CANADA Posts: 3,260	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Thanks for the further history of this interesting time. You are now the "caretaker" of an important historical auto. I wish you all the best in the preservation. __________________ "Andy Dunn,14,Hot Rodder", "Nominee for Canadian Street Rod Hall of Fame"

01-09-2008, 03:51 AM	#4
Omega Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Mass Posts: 883	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 This is amazing! Thanks for sharing.. I hope you can get the riley head back! althought i doubt it.. but hey..the HAMB has done wonders in the past! __________________ http://members.fotki.com/73OldsOmega/about/ H.A.M.B. Plastic Model Builders H.A.M.B. Slotcar Club

01-09-2008, 05:41 AM	#5
Cajun Kenny Alliance Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Just Another Smart Ass White Boy In Mississippi.. Posts: 6,917	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 cool story and history .. thanks for the update.. __________________ When The Shit hits The Fan It Will Not Be Evenly Distributed!

01-09-2008, 05:51 AM	#6
SUHRsc Alliance Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 4,495	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 thanks for the update Zach __________________ Suhr Speed & Custom Flyers Roadster Club

01-09-2008, 04:58 PM	#7
THOMAS S&C Grenade Inspector Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Harrisburg, PA Posts: 386	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Thanks, very cool story and pics. I had to do the same thing to my U-bolts on the rear of my car, I did a little cleaner job of it though! __________________ Formerly known as ME-OHs S&C Jeremiah FLYERS CC *FLYERS Roadster Club* www.myspace.com/flyerscc

01-09-2008, 05:13 PM	#8
mazdaslam Alliance Member Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Scotrun Pennsylvania Posts: 2,427	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Those "saw tooth cuts" look like a series of close spaced drilled holes were used to "cut" the crossmember out of the 32. Way cool project you got there.Please try to preserve as much of it's original character as possible. __________________ Andy Dunn, Hot Rodder, 14. R.I.P "MONSTERFLAKE"Kicks ASS!!! 50 Merc.....ON THE ROAD!!! 40 Merc,NEXT!Thanks Clark !!

01-09-2008, 05:15 PM	#9
rustybucket Alliance Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Columbus Ohio Posts: 261	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Thanks for the update. Very well organized post, the way they all should be. Can’t wait for part 3. Chris __________________ FLYERS CC

01-12-2008, 04:40 PM	#10
AV8-Rider Alliance Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: SARPSBORG, Norway Posts: 874	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 I enjoy this. Paul __________________ Sarpsborg Hot Rod Klubb

01-14-2008, 06:31 AM	#11
Omega Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Mass Posts: 883	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Alot of folks missed this thread...heres a bump for you..because this car deserves attention __________________ http://members.fotki.com/73OldsOmega/about/ H.A.M.B. Plastic Model Builders H.A.M.B. Slotcar Club

01-14-2008, 07:49 AM	#12
Big T Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 423	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Great post... I noticed there were 34 missions listed, but not a 35th. Early in the WWII air campaign, crews had to fly 25 missions. Then it was bumped to 30 and eventually 35. I assume Ray was flying during the time 35 missions had to be flown and he just didnt enter the name of his final plane. Love the story of the car and the background information is awesome. Keep the posts and pictures coming. __________________ Vintage isn't cool, if it doesn't work. Last edited by Big T; 01-14-2008 at 08:13 AM. Reason: typo

01-14-2008, 07:59 AM	#13
flt-blk Old School HAMBer Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Glen Ellyn, IL Posts: 3,644	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Isn't the 35th mission the ride home? __________________ THEM TX "Nomad"

04-20-2009, 12:37 PM	#15
303racer Alliance Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: The Other Ontario Ca Posts: 355	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 any updates on this car this was a great thread __________________ "Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it"

09-14-2009, 10:32 AM	#17
Django Alliance Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Forest Park IL Posts: 9,005	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Pretty cool. You could get an A-2 jacket and put The Fox noseart on the back and the squadron patch on the front. __________________ Hot Rod Hucksters . Chrome Czars Motor Club . Hot Rod Chassis & Cycle and Victory Speed Equipment . Django Studios

10-02-2009, 02:41 AM	#19
RAY With Alliance Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Montgomery ,Texas Posts: 1,828	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 What a story and piece of history. Chris I wouldn't worry to much about the welds since thats a big part of how it was done back then. No doubt they have proven there worth for many years and smoothing them out would only remove Rays way.It also proves it's roots in the spirit of competition and how it was "really" done back then. __________________ http://www.hotrodchat.com/gallery/ 21,600 pictures on 28 pages and 152 albums and growing-many HAMB FRIENDLY and some not.

10-02-2009, 04:18 AM	#20
Stovebolt Senior Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Victoria Australia Posts: 2,075	Re: Miracle Makeover - Part 2 Thanks for the great story and the update Chris. __________________ Doing all I can to keep 'em inline

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