Rambler engine interchange.

[Stevie G]

Is the early 60's OHV six similar to the newer 4.0 or 258 in the Jeeps?
I'm weighing options on a project and trying to figure out what else will fit as well as what upgrades would be available.

Thanks gang,
Steve

[FritzJr]

The 1964 and up six cylinder engines are all quite similar with lots of parts that interchange. These would be the 199, 232, 258, and to some extent the 4.0

[gahi]

I just went through this with a '62, you can swap in any of the 196 ci engines, either the flathead, OHV, or the aluminum OHV. But thats it. Because it is a unibody car, with a torque tube style drive line, its not too easy to swap anything into with out redoing the the whole car.

[Stevie G]

how do you tell if it's the earlier, or 64 and later?

[gahi]

I dont know... we found three engines, all of them were seized due to spun bearings. 2 - OHV's and 1- aluminum OHV. We just figured the year by the car they came out of. Picked up a late 60's engine, hoping to make it fit, but it wouldn't without some major mods. and with a cost of about $2200 to get the engine rebuilt, that project went on to someone else.

[Stevie G]

Okay, how about identifying the year of the car?
Any distinctive differences from 58-66?
early sixties is what I'm looking at.
I'm guessing it's a 62 or 63.
Any good Rambler sites?
I've found some pretty crappy ones already.

Thanks again,
Steve

[gahi]

Have you tried carnut?

[Stevie G]

Okay, it's a 61-63 for sure.

[imfatdad]

for quick ID sake, I have found that the 196 engines basically have the Oil filter mounted to the front of the engine and on level with the vavle cover. the second gen engines, 199-4.0 have a traditional location on level with crank. Good luck finding anything to "aftermarket" improve the 196, very rare. be aware that the Americans have a shorter engine bay. Motors for this model typically had shorter water pumps. There are a couple of very good message boards on net, I can forward if your interested..

[HemiRambler]

They were still dropping the 196 in thru '64.

While the engine bay may be "short" it still provides plenty of room for engine swaps - both "In" the AMC family and "Out".

A SBC will drop in with little effort (respectively).

With a little more work (ok maybe alot) you could even drop in a Hemi - at least in the '64 & later Americans.

[dirtybirdpunk]

Heres my wifes 63'. We will be dropping a 350/350 combo in it this weekend. The motor and tranny mounts were modified quite easily. We used an 8" Comet rear axle, set up on a 4 link suspension w/ air bags on all four corners. Since it was coil springs all the way around the air bags went in pretty easy and there was no need to move the shocks.

[rustynewyorker]

Rambler's automatic trans was a Borg-Warner unit also used by Ford and Studebaker in the late 50s - but the Rambler unit has a pushbutton valve body (at least late 50s do) and a torque tube rear.

It seems to me that depending on how they did the front of the case on them, changing to a Stude six, V8, or Ford Y-block or 352, should only be a matter of some front mounts, and taking apart transmissions and swapping pieces so it bolts to the stock torque tube. It may just be a matter of a tailshaft and rear case swap, and it may even be as simple as changing some kind of adapter ring on the front of the case like the GM dual-coupling Hydramatic uses. I've never had one apart to see how they do it.

It may be easier to do that than come up with a whole new rear suspension for the car. If you're just building a cruiser and not a race car, it aught to be okay. A later AMC rear might provide a more highway friendly gear if you need one.

Before anyone tries to tell me I'm full of crap, pull out any Motor's manual from 1958 to 1965 or so. You will find Ford, Rambler, Studebaker and Jeep all used this transmission for a while between '57 and '64 - I think AMC kept it until they went to open drive in 1968, while Jeep only used it two years.

[imfatdad]

Dirtybird, nice looking classic. no problem swapping into this model, much more room than the American engine bay.

regarding the trans, maybe FARNA could assist, he has forgotten more about AMC's than I will ever know...

[farna]

Some people obviously need Rambler lessons! For the most part everyone is pretty much on target -- for certain years and models.

1. Identification. The best way is to find the data plate. On early models it's either under the hood or in the drivers door frame between the hinges. On 63 Classic/Ambassador and 64 Americans and later it's on the latch edge of the driver's door (a ghastly place to put it -- replace the door and lose the original data, you get the one from the donor car, and most people don't think to change them!!). That's no direct help, but the model number is! If hte plate has been painted over the model number is always the SECOND FROM THE TOP. The first two digits are the year, third is the Series, fourth is body style, and fifth (if there is one) is a higher trim level. AMC used Series numbers like GM used letter to designate bodies.
0 - American
1 - Classic (or big Rambler 6 before 61, also 50-55 Nash Rambler)
8 - Ambassador.
For the others see www.amcyclopedia.com, number decoding. Most of you guys will be dealing with one of the three above, and maybe a 2 (58-60 Rebel, which is the same body as a 58-60 1 with a 250 V-8).
Note that the 0 is really "01" and the others have a zero added -- 1 is Series 10, etc.

2. Only 58-62 big Ramblers (Series 10) had pushbutton auto transmissions. 63+ had column or floor shift (mostly column). Pre 57s used a GM Dual Range Hydramatic with column shift, even the sixes. 57 used a Borg-Warner auto with column shift. All Americans (Series 01) used a column shift.

3. The 195.6 OHV and flathead were last used in base model 1965 Americans. An aluminum OHV block engine was produced from 61-63, but didn't share a lot of parts beyond the crank and rods with the iron version.

4. The 64+ 199/232/258/4.0L can usually all be interchanged -- with the correct mix of factory parts and a little ingenuity. Not hard, but you do need to do some research.. or ask me what you need!

5. The 195.6 is one of the shortest sixes ever made! If you have a 58-63 American (Series 01) or 50-55 Nash Rambler (would be a Series 10!) you can't put a longer engine in -- not without cutting out the firewall and going backwards. The good news is a late model Ford 200 or 250 (the tall deck 200) is also short and narrow enough to drop right in! The original Rambler stick shift trans will even bolt to an early 60s Ford falcon bell housing. Better to use a newer Ford trans and get a custom made drive shaft though. A V-8 will fit the 10 and 80 Series, and the 64+ 01, but the 50-55 10 and 58-63 01 have narrow engine bays as well. V-8s can be fitted, but a little cutting on the sides is necessary. The front suspension, by the way, will easily hold up a small block. That "little" 195.6 OHV or flathead only weighs about 50 pounds less!!

6. If you have a 1956+ Series 10 or 80, there's room for the longer later model six, but those cars have a torque tube setup. the newer sixes have a lot more power than the old 195.6, but for a cruiser driven easy the old trans should hold up. The bell housing bolt pattern changed in 1972, so only 64-71 sixes will bolt to older trannys. 72 and up use the same pattern as AMC V-8s (except for the 56-66 250/287/327, which has a unique bell pattern).

7. Finally, keep that 350/350 out of that Rambler and I won't drop a flathead six in a 63 Corvette! ;> Seriously, I understand that AMC drivetrains can be hard to find, but can't you do better than a cookie cutter?? A Jeep 4.0L EFI and AW4 trans has plenty power, four speed auto, and just looks right under the hood! Yeah, that's what I have in my 63 Classic wagon. Can't do bags, though I've though about it. Opted for a Jag rear axle instead...

Stevie G, what model Rambler do you have? There's an AMC meet in Atlanta early next month. See http://www.classicone.com/amo/events/events.htm. I'll be there in a flamed light blue 63 Classic wagon, similar to the pic in this thread.

[Stevie G]

I'm looking at a 63 American Convertible.
We'll see.
Shop space is an issue right now.