STEERING, Kingpin slop - how much is terminal?

[Kevin Lee]

Something tells me the answer is going to be "any at all". Had new bushings pressed in and reamed to size at a local machine shop - this was done probably a year ago and was an entirely new kit. Bushings, bearings, shims and kingpins with new locking pins. The chassis has just been rolling around my basement and driveway for the past year. Never noticed slop before but I had never paid much attention - just made the assumption that everything was right. Now as I'm getting my steering set up there is some noticible slop. Not a lot, but I can put my finger between the axle and spindle and feel it when I rock the car with my knee. The kingpins were a tight fit in the axle. Not press fit, but snug. The kingpins are definitely not moving in the axle. I do have a few shims on each side but that's what they're for? I just don't want to find out that I need a new bushing kit before the car even moves under it's own power.

[manyolcars]

Years ago, I paid a shop to ream my kingping bushings. One had more play than the other. I was not happy. Then I got reamers and did it myself. One had more play than the other. Since then, I hone them to final size. These bushings dont last very long. Stainless Steel Brakes has an idea that sure sounds good. They use Torrington Bearings instead of bushings and they last 10 years.

[DrJ]

Are they greased?
Ya gotta have some room for grease or they'll bind and it's amazing how little movement you can feel...grease them, then put a dial indicator on it, then report back.

[Bruce Lancaster]

I have heard that some aftermarket reamers for Fords run oversize. Dunno. If slop
is definitely at the bushings, no big. You can buy the bushings for like fifty cents each from some of the parts places, and the disassembly is pretty minimal and will be easy since everything has been apart recently. I can't find my KRW reamer, the only brand I trust without measuring. If you don't want to take things apart enough to take spindles to machine shop for honing or proper size reaming, track down local Model A club (For God's sake don't tell them what you did to your Model A) and you'll likely find someone with a known good reamer.

[Tman]

Good post Grim, my new bushings and kingpins should be here today.

[Paul]

I noticed the same thing in the Chevy king pin kits I've done, there is no reaming you just put the stuff together as a matched set.

after assembly there is a always a very slight amount of slop..

if you've been rolling the car around you MUST have grease in there, they will wear quite fast if it's metal on metal

It doesn't sound like you have too much slop though, I wouldn't worry about it.

Paul

[C9]

Was the shop one that's experienced in reaming kingpin bushings?
The kingpins should be a 'drop-in' or at least an easy to firm push-in by hand.
Assuming they are lubed.

The shims should have a snug fit.
Not so you have to force them in, but they need to be tight.

You may find you need to do the shim pack over, but more than likely the kingpin bushings were over-reamed.

I did some digging through my manuals and DIY books, but couldn't find the specs for kingpin clearances.
Seems like it was in the low ten-thousandths of an inch.
.001 is too much slop between bushing and kingpin.

You said the kingpins were not moving in the axle.
Do you have the kingpin notch correctly oriented?
And the special retaining bolts oriented correctly as well?

Re-shim it and see what you get.
If that doesn't do it, try to find a shop that's experienced in kingpin reaming.
A diesel truck shop could probably do it.

[C9]

To add a bit more, MSC has an adjustable reamer in the size range required for just over $17.

I think it was Bruce who pointed out that bushings are cheap and you could press them in with a vise.

Nice part about the adjustable reamer is you can sneak up on the finished size.

I'm guessing you could buy the reamer including shipping for less than the shop would charge you.

[Kevin Lee]

I should add that I don't know if the bushings were reamed or honed to size. Kingpins are in right, locking pins were oriented correctly, everything is greased.

I like 60's Style's answer the most so far...but it looks like I might get some new bushings and redo it myself anyway just for peace of mind. Shouldn't take more thana few hours to do it right so I'm going to wait and see how my time plays out. Maybe that's a project for next winter along with some flathead tuning.

Adjustable reamer for $17? Is it long enough to hit both bushings at once and didn't Mart come up with a pretty ingenious idea for getting around that if it doesn't? When honing is mentioned are you talking about a flexhone?

Bruce - Duely noted and I'm replying right now.

[Gr8ballsofir]

C9, Stupid question, Who's MSC?

[C9]

MSC used to be called - and probably still is - Manhattan Supply Company.
Looks like it calls itself MSC Industrial Supply Co. nowadays.

They handle all kinds of stuff for machine shops and the like.
They're also very good about handling a small quantity of items like a home builder would order.
Good outfit to deal with, fair prices and fast service.
Plus, there's more than one supplier of a particular thing to choose from.

Make one order and regardless of order size they'll send you an over 4000 page catalog full of goodies.

Along with all the machinist oriented stuff, there are hand tools, alloy specific epoxies, shop chemicals (cutting fluids and the like).
I'm sure you will find something you just gotta have....

[C9]

Not sure if the adjustable reamer will reach both bushings at once, but it doesn't appear that it would.

Another - and perhaps better, as well as cheaper - way out would be to get a reamer sized .811 for the .812 diameter kingpins.

There are long flute reamers available.
I was going to check flute length with my .813 reamer (455 Buick roller rockers) against the bushing distance on the 32's spindle, but couldn't find it.
The .500 diameter long flute reamer I did check looks like it would be well started into the lower spindle bushing before dropping out of the upper spindle bushing.
Since things tend to scale up in diameter and length, the .811 long flute reamer may do it.

The reamer you want is called a hand-chucking reamer.
Less of a chance for problems when driving it in by hand.

Honing to finish size using a brake hone with new stones would probably work quite well.

In fact, you may be better off to order a .810 reamer and be sure of a really smooth finish when you take the final .002 off with the hone.

[Bruce Lancaster]

I open the MSC catalog any time I can't figure out a way to do something or I need a fastening/connecting solution beyond local hardware resources. The answer is often in there in the form of a previously unimagined tool or bolt.
By the way, G, I didn't realize you were using that arm--I thought it was useless! I wasn't trying to sell off bits of your car!
I had no idea that a late model Ford part might have an actual use...

[gettingreasy]

Hey C9, you got a web site or phone # for MSC? Thanks.
-Jesse

[hotrodA]

You said you checked for pin movement from a worn axle kingpin boss, but if it is there, pull the pin and lightly dimple the KP boss bore with a sharp center punch in a few spots, just to raise the surface, and re-assemble.

The BEST method on bushings is with a Sunnen con-rod hone.
You can get the fit exact. The one problem with a reamer is it actually will leave minute peaks and valleys on the surface of the bushing. When the peaks wear down, the clearance is increased. The hone gives a smoother and more uniform finish.

The wear rate on the bushings increases with the increasing clearance, as the spindle bushing will actually pound against the pin as the spindle is unloaded from a bump and returns to the thrust side of the bushing. Worst case is constant toe change with every bump, tire squirm, and toe-ou wear.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Grimlock-slightly OT, but still steering-there's some poor devil in the classifieds begging for a '49 drag link. I think the one I sent you as a spline sample was an NOS '49 Ford one.

[lucky_1974]

I can't speak to the slop issue, but I hone my own with a drill and a brake cylinder hone. Yes it took a lot of time, but I was happy with the results just hone, test, hone, test. I will do that again if I need to do it in the next setup. Good luck and hope they are okay.