*#*#*#*#*NEW PROGRESS - First time in years! - 7/12/2011*#*#*#*#* ******UPDATED 3/27/08****** As many of you already know, I've started building a '29 Ford Model AA truck, which I affectionately call my "Dubble A" truck. I've asked many questions and appreciate all of the input you guys have given to me. That being said, let me jump in here with what I did. Last weekend I aquired FOR FREE a back half of a 70s Ford 1/2 ton truck with a 9" rear end, loaded with 3.00 gears. As Squirrel eloquently put it - they aren't great for anything, so they wind up being good for everything, and I think that about sums up my entire life - thanks Squirrel. After spending the week gathering pieces and parts, as well as hauling the leftover scrap to the crusher, I wound up only about $50 into this entire rear setup, which I think is pretty good overall. I'll narrate as I post pictures, so bear with me as I explain it all as we go along. Here is basically what I started with as it sat in my garage: It doesn't look like much, and looks like even less as I started stipping down the original splash aprons and running boards off. With the running boards removed, you can start to see the stock spring locations and mounts. This 1 1/2 ton, 16 leaf-ed spring pack is an interesting design. The shackle for the spring was on the front mount; it pivoted in the center, and the rear end itself was supported only by the bottom spring eye. 4 rivets on the front mount, 8 on the center, and the entire rear end of this truck (even when LOADED) was supported ONLY by a 1/4" thick piece of steel that is about 2.5" wide on each side. I don't actually have a good shot of the rear spring eyes/mounts, but I'll try to remember to post one tomorrow. Anyway, here's these: Next I started cutting the heads off of the rivets that held everything to the frame using a cut off wheel in my angle grinder. It made for a bit longer of a job, but in the end, it did okay. Here's the front bracket being removed. For some reason I don't have the others: After I got it all removed, I drug the old rear outside to the end of my driveway, and here you can see the difference between the old and "new" rear ends: This left the rear frame rails exposed, but with about 20 or so rivets sticking up off the frame surface. Each had to be ground down and then driven out using heat and an air chisel: I positioned the 9" rear under the truck with the springs and brackets in place. I managed to cut off the original Ford truck frame the spring mounting brackets in hopes of using them here. Well, IMO, they worked perfectly. I had to loosen the U-bolts and 'pinch' the springs together a bit in the front to fit right, but I think it worked out nicely. Since I didn't want to locate the rear spring mount at the very end of the frame rail where it was narrowest, I went ahead and moved forward about 6 inches and wound up bolting the rearward most hole on the mount into an existing hole in the frame on each side. This helped make locating the axle a snap. I went ahead and eyeballed the bracket onto the frame so it would be level, then drilled and bolted the bracket to the rear frame. If you look, you can see there are no bolts in the lower holes on the bracket itself. I'll remedy that later in this post. I next moved to the front bracket, and after doing some orientation measurements, I went ahead and wound up using another hole in the frame from one of the rivets I just removed from the old brackets. This bracket was small enough to be able to attach all 4 bolts to the frame with no problems.
Now, moving on. Once I drilled and bolted in the front brackets and made sure that the measurements were correct, I moved to the rear to fix the disparity between the bottom of the frame and the bottom of the spring brackets. About a month ago, I managed to aquire an 8' long piece of 3/8" thick, 4" x 4" angle iron at an auction for $1.00 knowing I'd use it here. I cut a 8" long piece to measure with. I clamped it into the place where it would be located - both to the bottom of the frame and to the back of the spring bracket: I then traced the outline of the spring bracket onto the angle iron piece with a sharpie. Next I cut and ground the pieces down and clamped them in place again to drill the holes. The drop bracket wound up being right at 7" long, so I used three 1/2" grade 5 bolts in a staggered arrangement to provide stability to mount the brackets to the frame. I then drilled 2 holes through the spring brackets into the drop brackets to secure them to each other. As you can see, it is pretty solid! Well, there it is. Below is the "finished" product. I didn't mount the shocks as I'm not 100% sure that this is exactly where this axle is going to stay - whether I move it to the top of the springs or not will depend on the weight of the bed and other factors. Currently, the top of the frame is 28" high, but it can be dropped with several different modifications - last of all will be a flip kit. Currently it has 235/70/15 tires on it. They are junkyard specials and are dry rotted to crap, but they were free on the $7.50 wheels I bought. The biggest drawback to the entire setup - at least to me - is that I shortened the wheel base about 10 1/2", from 131 1/2" to 122". Not much, but I think it'll still look okay and ride fine. Other than that, let me know what you think of this setup. Hopefully others can use this setup under an old "AA" truck if it'll have similar frame dimensions.
I also went ahead and snatched out the front axle setup to get started on building it. Here are a few picutures of it. Here's a picture of the front spring pack. Get a load of the number of leaves!
Hey thats friggin awesome!!!! My pops just got a 30 AA and he's drivin it!, barn fresh last month!!!!! Im gunna lower the whole thing and drop the big ass Front axle too!!!!!! Is yours the normal small axle? The early 28's had the smalls.............Keep it up man!!!! JG
Yeah, its the smaller axle. I've got a set of '46 truck spindles getting ready to go onto it, and then a disc brake conversion. I'm going to have the front spindles and hubs, as well as the entire rear end setup (as seen on the ground in previous pictures) for sale.
Eventually, I may have to in order to get the ride height down some. I'm not going to put the frame in the dirt, or channel the body (I'm 6'3 and 265), but I'm definitely going to want to lower the frame down some. I'm thinking once I remove 2 of the 5 springs, and put a bed, motor, trans, and other components on it, that it'll drop down around 4-6", which may actually be acceptable. If not, I'll look at flipping the axle and doing a C-notch, as I know that in itself should be good for around 5-6", plus the removal of the springs should get it down quite a bit lower. Right now, I'm just going to have to wait and see how it goes. Other than that, I've got it mounted now and ready for tinkering with.
ACtually the "small" front axle was used on all 28 AAs and the better part of 29 as well. Late 29 saw the intro of the AA specific axle.
Mine has the passenger car front axle with the HUGE hub/spindle on the ends of it. The original suspension is - to me - a safety enigma all around. Seems that everything is over-engineered except for one portion of each mounting point. You'd have to see it to completely understand.
You are off to a good start on your Double A and the best part its different and it looks solid and straight.
Yeah, the body is incredibly straight with very little rust out. The cowl has what I've been told are the usual places at the bottom, and since someone put a custom hammered top on it, even the floors are in great shape with the exception of one little area in the middle/back floor and back. I'm getting back to work on it soon. I've got just about everything ready to hang the front axle back underneath it, but sent out today for a new main leaf for my spring pack. I reversed the one I had and I didn't like the temper it had when I was through, so to be better safe than sorry, I'm having a new one made. As soon as the front end is under it, and I can get my tie rod together, I'm going to hang the 350/700R4 combo in it and hopefully begin to make some progress!
************UPDATE************** I’ve been gathering parts for this old ’29 Dubble A pickup for quite awhile, and trying to get money wrangled around to work on it for almost 9 months, and finally, I was able to get stuff done. I just got tired of waiting, and putting things off, and finally decided to make something for me a priority. Anyway, I started getting this thing organized by getting the spring pack together. Here you can see the original main leaf (in white) that I reversed awhile back at a buddy’s shop. I didn’t like the way the temper of it felt after reversing it, so I went ahead and went to Tulsa Auto Spring and had them make me another reversed eye main leaf. Wasn’t too bad though – only ran me $32.56 for a custom main leaf. I had purchased a complete Mr. Roadster spring pack from DuckusCrapus to use for my front end. He’d had some issues with getting the correct width spring, and sold me this one for a good price. Since I was reversing the main leaf anyway, and you’re supposed to shorten the second leaf, and this one was already shorter, it was a perfect donor candidate for my spring pack. Since my original spring pack on the front of this Dubble A contained somewhere between 14-18 leaves and was 3” thick, the stock 6 leaf Mr. Roadster spring wasn’t going to be thick enough to take up the depth of the crossmember. So… Duck helped me cut some of my old leaves down to use as spacers on the bottom of the new spring pack. We cut up 7 of the 14 leaves I had, and only wound up having to use 6 of them. We cut them on a staggered pattern (longest on top, and slightly narrower as we got to the bottom) for 2 reasons – 1) to be a bit decorative, and 2) to hide that we can’t cut straight! Either way, I think the overall result looks pretty decent. These are the leaves that make up my spring pack. The next 2 pictures show the spring pack as it is assembled. Once the spring pack was assembled, I went ahead and did a trial test fit onto the axle perches to see how my bones and mounts would all line up. It was at this time that I realized that my new main leaf spring was too long and would need to be shortened. It actually wound up being shortened a full 1.25” and now fits beautifully.
This is the shackle and how it sat before I had the spring shortened. Once I got the axle mounted, I got my wishbone frame mounts out and vice gripped them to the frame to check measurements. After checking, and coming back here to confirm what I’d already figured out, (Thanks Brianangus!) I had to make some adjustments to my bones in order to get the proper amount of camber (or is it caster?) so my axle’s vertical centerline would be correct. This picture shows the 2 cuts I made, and then went down to a buddy’s shop to have them TIG’d properly (Thanks 51Iron!). At the same time, he also went ahead and made up my tie rod, and we connected 2 of the tie rod ends I got from another HAMBer. I’ll save those pictures and stuff about it for a future tech post, as I think the entire idea is very tech worthy. Once I got my wishbones back from being welded up properly, I went ahead and started to line up where I wanted to place my frame mounts. I wound up placing the rear most part of the ¼” angle iron brackets 23” forward of the frontmost rivet in the crossmember under the cab. It’s a good reference point, and worked out pretty nicely. Once I located where I wanted them, I cut the 4” angle iron to the width of the frame (2” and drilled my holes. I used 7/16” grade 5 nuts and bolts to hold the mounts to the bottom of the frame. I went ahead and mounted off center the middle bolt on each mount to help lateral stability when the mount flexes against the frame itself. See the fixed mounts here.
Once I had the bone mounts finalized and locked down tight to the frame, I wanted to go ahead and install the wheel bearing adapters I picked up off Ebay. I posted about them awhile back, and just to recap, I lucked out and picked up adapters that allow me to run ’73-’93 Ford half ton rotors along with GM calipers for – instead of the $99+shipping that Speedway Motors wanted – for $36 delivered to my door! However, when I tried to heat up the spindle adapter and press it on, I only managed to get it this far. From my understanding, this is a somewhat normal occurrence, so I went to another buddy’s shop and had them pressed the rest of the way on. From there, I installed the what appeared to be like new junkyard U-pull special rotors that I picked up – along with 2 wheels – for only another $32.80 awhile back. The rotors looked like brand new, as they only had the surface rust that the new rotors seem to be when left outside. They feel as if there is no wear on them, and they are thicker’n hell. Either way, for $10 each with bearings and seals, I was happy. I installed the rest of the brake adapter kit, and then hung my ‘new’ rotors. Once the rotors were on, I went in search of a pair of decent 15” tires – that matched size and tread – to put on my wheels as rollers. I stopped by one of the nearby tire shops and asked if they had anything like I was looking for in their scrap tire pile, and the dude took me over and gave me these 2 tires that look like almost new! They are the cheaper off brand type tires, but they are knee deep in tread, look like new, and will probably be on the truck when I start to drive it they are in such good shape! Dunno why someone pulled’em off, but I don’t care – freebies are freebies. Check out the tread on these things. They are 205/70/15s Once I mounted the tires and bolted them down, I noticed I had a slight toe in problem.
Once my bone mounts were located, I went ahead last night and tore down my spring so’s I could take the main leaf back to be shortened. I got it as far as I could, and then took off to see if I could possibly pick up the spring that I was told “should be done sometime tomorrow.” This picture shows the Dubble A awaiting the spring pack to be installed. We went to dinner, and as soon as I came back I went ahead and put the leaf pack together and bolted it down into the crossmember. The last picture shows this old girl sitting back on all 4s again for the first time in many, many years. When I got her, she was only wearing 3 shoes, as somewhere along the lines she’d had one loaned out that never came back. Now, for the first time sine 1962, this old truck is back on her own 4 feet. Coming soon… I’ll dig out the 350/700R4 and begin setting it into place. Once it is in place and the front end is holding up the weight, I’ll figure out how far down the rear end needs to come to be balanced properly. May also be trying to go after the bed for this old girl this weekend as well. Stay tuned…
Thanks! I like it myself! This is the first time since 1962 that this truck has sat on its own 4 feet. The previous owner's dad drug it home with only 3 wheels on it, and it sat ever since.
The rear spring brackets look like 70's Chevy pu units. They also had an angle brace on the front brackets, as they hung under the rails. So it should work well for you. Just leave a small gap or hole to drain out any water that gets splashed up into the pocket. Chevy brackets have a slight offset on the bottom edge for this. My "a" was originally a Tudor that someone grafted the back end of a "TT" truck onto. It had quarter eliptic springs in back butted together under the rear crossmember, and a worm drive rear end. But the crossmember was only held on by thin brackets, like a passenger car, and by a couple of spindley looking perches on the axle. Like you mentioned it is strange to overbuild so much of it, and yet leave it hanging by a thread in spots. Good luck with your build.
The brackets definitely are early to late '70s Ford units. I cut the rivets off the frame myself to get them intact like they are to ease locating them. Here's the 'better than free' thread I started when I got it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=178540&highlight=free I just leveled the frame in my garage to get ready for dropping the engine and tranny into it. I'm definitely going to have to flip the axle on top of the springs in order to get the rear down low enough to look right. Just to tell how much off it was, I had the front wheels 6" off the ground before the frame sat level front to rear. Right now,I've got the rear wheels off, the rear pumpkin sitting on the floor, my front stands on top of a 4" pad I made, along with a 2x4 on top of them, and I'm still an inch too high in the rear to get it level! Oh well, it'll work for what I'm doing.
Looking great man! Just picked up the thread from the fan question... I'm trying to piece together why the motor seems so crammed. Have an overall side view to see hot the body sits?
Not too much of a shot. I've got a few on the camera, but haven't downloaded them yet. I'll have more stuff up this weekend I think. I'm going to run towards the U-pull salvage to find what I want if all goes well. I'm probably going to ditch the Serpentine belt setup, and hold onto it for another build. Just right now, I've got too little space and too much motor. 350 from an '89 Suburban with a 700R4. Motor is down lower than I like right now, but that'll hopefully change soon enough. I just have to get it into the right spot, make it sit there permanently, and the fit everything else to it and around it.
I like your project. Reminds me of when the OFT (old funky truck) was going thru it's first build 40 years ago. Keep up the good work. How did you keep your rear springs parrell? The AA has the same tapper has a A frame. Do they run at a angle to the rear end, parrell to frame? I parrelled my AA frame to run 1958 chevy 38 series (1.5 ton) springs on this latest build. Not sure on your rear end perch spacing frame but Chevy/Ford used the same from the 50's thru 70's at least. Matter of fact the corp 14 bolt used same until 2000.
Just check out the initial build on how I did the springs. I basically took the spring brackets off of the 70s half ton Ford by cutting the factory rivets off from the inside of the frame, and then only had to loosen the U-bolts on the axle to slightly narrow the springs in the front and widen them out a bit in the back. Then I just bolted the brackets to the frame with grade 8 hardware. The springs just basically are mounted outside the frame rails. I'm going to have custom springs made with no arch so I can drop the thing down about 5 inches in the back. This way, if I ever for some reason 'eat' an axle while on the road, I can just swing into any salvage yard and pick up a half ton rear axle and bolt it in and go.
Nice job so far keep up the good work. Just thought you may like to know it would work out better if you switched the axle shock absorber brackets to the opposite sides so left to the right side and the right to the left side gives you a better shock angle. If you want to drop the front end a little more without too much expense you could use a 1932 thru 1936 Ford car front axles has a little more drop in it for lowering. Keep up the good work and I love that rear end adaption, well thought out.
I'm just getting back started on this thing again, as it's been awhile since I've been out there in the garage messing with anything. However, I've recently purchased a speedway motor mount crossmember, so I'll be hopefully making some new progress soon.
maybe a little off topic but on the farm we have a axle just like that but with a transverse spring thats 3inches wide at least. i thought it was a AA spring but would it be from a large t. Your AA is going to be great, and out of the norm. which only makes it better.
I'm juiced that someone else is working on a Double A. I bought mine in '74 and began to rod it in '75. Joe Engelman of Engelman Engineering and Street Rod Fabrication in Independence did lots of the fabrication. I used the original cantilever springs on top and Joe fabbed a pair of lower bars to set it up as a "four bar" rear suspension, rebuilding all the hanger brackets and rebushing the springs to hang the Rockwell rear axle from a 1960 Ford F-350 tow truck. Also used the spindles, brakes and wheels from that tow truck. Engelman adapted the wishbone and spindles to match the original small Model A front axle, flattening the "smile" to match the F-350's slightly less spindle angle and shimming between the spindle and axle. The wheels give the truck an older look. Setup originally for a 351/FMX, I later went to an AOD and changed over the front suspension to a Pete & Jakes 4-bar with early Mustang steering box. Joe's fabricating a disc brake e-brake on the ham so I can get it legal. By the way, the rear ratio is 5.14, but when you figure the duals on the back are awfully big around, and add the AOD overdrive, it should cruise without screaming and still pull like a champ in low. Pics soon.
Geez... I can't believe it's been 3 years since I've been able to work on this thing. What's to say... money got tight, we moved, lost about $30K in my wife's income, and we moved to and started up a goat farm. Yup, goat farm... although we have 53 goats, we have 3 dogs, 3 cats, 1 horse, 5 geese, 5 guineas, 4 peacocks, about 30 chickens and 1 lowly duck. Anyway, I got tired of waiting for everything to line up the way it was supposed to be done, so I went ahead and began working this thing again in the less than perfect conditions. Oh well, such is life. I started on Monday working to build/create boxing plates for the front rails and get ready to hang my Vega steering box. Well, problems with the torch made it a bitch to cut out the pieces from the 1/4" steel plate. It might be a bit thicker than most would use, but hey - it was free - so I used it. Anyway, got the pass side plate cut and trimmed to fit snugly into the rail, but issues (read 108 degree heat plus 115 degree plus heat index) more or less prevented us from making as much progress as I wanted. I got the plate cut out for the driver's side. I even allowed for the plate to allow me to mount the Vega box. I didn't realize how low it would ride, but I don't guess it is that low in all anyway. I also finally realized how nice it would be to have one of those fancy mounting kits that goes with it. See, if you didn't already know, the Vega has curved protrusion between the mounting holes so it can't sit flat against the rail without spacers. These spacers wound up being the bane of my existence! Anyway, Monday afternoon I took the driver's side plate to the local welding shop to have them drill the holes in the plate as well as make me the 1/2" custom spacers to space the box away from the frame. They promised me it'd be ready at 9am the next morning, so I got something cold and went home for the day. Next day, not ready @ 10am. Went back at 1 and nothing. At 5:07 they were closed up and gone - looked like a ghost town! Went back this morning and the guy tells me that he might be able to get it by 5pm today. I said I'm at a standstill and went ahead and took my stuff with me. On the way back to my dad's shop I stopped at a local thrift type store and picked up a 9/16" no-name impact socket for $2. Took it back and loaded it into the chop saw and came up with these for spacers. I think they rock even though they aren't perfect! I wound up finally getting the Vega box where I wanted it on the boxing plate, drilled the holes in it, and then mounted the box. Since I was going to locate it a certain way, one of the holes was going to have to have the 7/16" nut welded to the back side as a blind nut. Should be able to tell pretty much what I'm talking about: Another picture of what will be the blind nut with the spacers in place: Here's my buddy Rick doing my welding for me. When he said he'd work for food, I didn't realize that I was going to have to take up stock in McDonald's! Seriously, he's an awesome welder, and takes alot of pride in making my truck look great. I really appreciate what he's doing for me here. Here are a few shots of him welding in the boxing plates and the way it all looks. More updates to come as they are available.
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