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Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tlmartin84, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member


    Mike's a great guy to get parts from for a small 6. He's got zip for the 240/300's except maybe the dui distributor. But I'm still hoping he can get the aluminum 300 heads finished.
     
  2. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    [​IMG]

    Thats off of a early 80's F150. Will a T5 Bolt up to that Bell housing??? Is there a lot of problems doing it? or is just slip it in???
     
  3. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    I'm pretty sure the T5 takes it's own style of bell housing.

    And make sure you have the correct flywheel for the 300 and the bell housing you use.
     
  4. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member


    To use a T5 behind a top loader style bellhousing like the one in your picture you will need an adaptor http://www.calponycars.com/prodDetail.php?prodId=349

    If you are planning to do any kind of racing a scattershield would be a good investment.
     
  5. An Automatic would be a good investment. C4 works well behind these motors.
    Someone asked would there be piston slap with a 390 piston . Also a 352 piston was mentioned but I have no idea why. 390 is the best fit. Like perfect. Why would anyone think there would be piston slap with a 390 piston? I dont follow this line of thought but am curious how it would pop up.
    Don.
     
  6. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    I was asking about the "slap", a guy I work with said I might run into that.... So I was just asking. As far as the 390 pistons several have been mentioning heat issues and over boring the block fifty thousandths, just there preference not too.

    As far as transmissions goes it looks like a 4 speed RUG is the best, am I correct? I get a tough transmission with overdrive........ Do the RUG transmissions work off of a hydraulic or cable clutch?
     
  7. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Also is there a transmission code on the door sticker for a RUG??? does anyone know it?

    When looking at donors how can I Identify a RUG from the others?

    Thanks
     
  8. Pops1532
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 544

    Pops1532
    Member
    from Illinois

    Those top loader 4th over trans had a tendency to eat bearings.
     
  9. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    LOL so then what is the "best" Manual OD transmission to put behind a 300???
     
  10. The top loader 3 speed set up you have is actually a good one but here are a couple of pictures of my iron case OD 4 speed and bell housing. they look pretty much like any top loader, I would suppose that with 3.50 or deeper gears they would be OK for a daily driver but in a rig heaver than a roadster don't expect much in the way of performance after second gear.
     

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  11. genosslk
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 245

    genosslk
    Member

    I have the exact 3 speed set up as pictured above. It works very well with a 3:50 rear end... One set back is the HUGE ratio difference between 2nd and 3rd gear...... Hauls butt in first/second and falls flat on it's face in third..... So..... do really short races! I've banged on mine hard and with a light weight car it's hard to hurt anything.

    I too would like to do a conversion to a 4 speed top loader. Someone do a parts sheet for us!
     
  12. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    The best would be a Tremec TKO 5spd. It's an aftermarket transmission for stuff like Mustangs. But you are looking at $800-$1000 for a used one ( if you can find one ) . I believe they run somewhere in the $1500-$1800 range for new ones ( been a while since I checked the prices ) .


    If you are on more of a budget one to consider would be a ZF S5-42 5spd out of a late 80's - 90's F250/F350 with a 351W or 300. These are miles ahead of the mazda 5spds strength wise. The 2wd versions can be picked up used for $300-$600. You don't need a bell housing with these because they are built into the transmission case. But they will require converting to a hydraulic slave cylinder set up. You will also need a flywheel for a 300 with the ZF 5spd.
     
  13. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member

    The bad thing about the ZF 5 speed is that the trans is huge compaired to a T5, or a TKO 5 speed, the ZF is best for a truck application pulling a trailer.


    How to id a 4 speed toploader, and a (RUG) 3 speed with overdrive toploader.
    http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2011
  14. Tony Ray
    Joined: Sep 8, 2007
    Posts: 1,111

    Tony Ray
    Member

    my dad gave me some 300 six parts he used to run.. im trying to decide what to do with them..
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    plus few heads,cranks magneto, headers clutches.. ..so many ideas.. so little cash.. sheesh
     
  15. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member


    Yes it is large but he did say he's got a F100 so it is a truck. The ZF is an option for the guys that can't afford a TKO but want something stronger then the T5.
     
  16. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member

    For just crusing it with an occasional race (but not use it to pull a trailer) the ZF is not the one to use (the shifter on the ZF leaves a lot to be desired).
     
  17. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    So does the stock shifter on the T5. They do sell short throw shifter kits for the ZF.

    If he needs OD the ZF is the strongest trans for the money. If money isn't a problem then The Tremec TKO or even a T-56 6spd would be the way to go. Grenading T5's gets old pretty quick. If he was building something light then the T5 wouldn't be a horrible choice. But not in a truck.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2012
  18. Pops1532
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 544

    Pops1532
    Member
    from Illinois

    Pipes, I can help you decide what to do with that stuff.....
     
  19. Great thread, I've learned a lot about choices. When I built my roadster a few years back I didn't think anybody did Fords big six.
    Pipes, that manifold and carb set up would look tits on my car.
     
  20. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    You have a very nice father!!
     
  21. <TABLE class=tborder id=post6919272 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #e5e5e5 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #e5e5e5 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #e5e5e5 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #e5e5e5 0px solid" width=175>Join Date: Jul 2011
    Location: WV
    Posts: 74


    </TD><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_6919272 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #e5e5e5 1px solid"><!-- icon and title -->[​IMG] Re: Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations
    <HR style="COLOR: #e5e5e5; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e5e5e5" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->I was asking about the "slap", a guy I work with said I might run into that.... So I was just asking. As far as the 390 pistons several have been mentioning heat issues and over boring the block fifty thousandths, just there preference not too.
    I am sorry to hear that. I thought since i had done it successfully and it stood the test of time well that might have some value. Thanks for answering anyway. I just as an expierenced engine builder will never understand when a good proven combo that has stood many many years testng and running is given there are 900 folks who have never set a boring bar on a block who know why it wont work. Even though it is a proven combination. I guess i never will.
    060 is the max suppliers make pistons for that engine 050 is not that much and they are sure it will stand 060 or they would NOT make pistons for it because they cant afford the backlash. Legally or from the headache standpoint. Anyway Carry on. Just wondered. It reminded me why I retired.
    As for slap there is no reason why a properly fitted piston would slap.?????It doesnt know what engine it is in. Don
    </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
     
  22. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    I never said it won't work to over bore it 0.050". I just think it's not the best choice just to use 390 pistons. There are pistons that will work with the stock bore ( or even .010",.020", .030", etc. ) . Why remove more material then absolutely necessary? And by going .050" over you are also limiting any future rebuilds.

    Going 0.060" over on a 300 is like playing with a hand grenade.
     
  23. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,366

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    The blueprint dimension on cylinder wall thickness for a 300 is .160" - .170", as measured 2/3 of the way down the bores. A .050" overbore would remove .025" of that .160". If you have a relatively low performance hop-up, say, anything under 300 HP it may matter little. If you are trying to run a 600 HP fuel injected, 15:1 race engine it will drive you crazy.
     
  24. I never said it won't work to over bore it 0.050". I just think it's not the best choice just to use 390 pistons. There are pistons that will work with the stock bore ( or even .010",.020", .030", etc. ) . Why remove more material then absolutely necessary? And by going .050" over you are also limiting any future rebuilds.
    I dont build engines with the intention of future rebuilds Once is enuf. many I built in the 70s even are still around and alive.
    Here a fellow could take a 300 get a set of pistons most likely even for zip or if he bought them new maybe $15 each, a decent cam I often get custom grinds made cost no more than normal. Some kind of intake with decent carburation and a bore and a good rebuild and it would run great . Eat its V8 brother for breakfast and last longer than most would ever want to use it.
    And it is not theory. I have done it for folks more than once. Here is one in the pic Representing TMP at Norfolk. The late Bob Gauley driving. He ran this motor that is in the car in this picture for 9 years and then sold the whole car. One certainly would not want something like that! And yes it is 4.050 bore. But never mind. Why spend $1500 when you could blow $5000 for less performance.
    Don
     

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  25. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    I think the core of the bore thickness debate is how an engine will be used. On street engines and for occasional drag racing people get away with thin bores, rods that are too short for the amount of stroke, rings that are too wide/heavy for the engine's max RPMs, iron rods or crankshaft, no harmonic damper, improperly curved distributors, combustion chamber shortcomings, etc, etc. etc. To one degree or another all those things are asking for trouble, but most of the time nothing catastrophic happens. Do any of those things on an engine that is used hard and the odds of having trouble go way up. That's where you are guaranteed to see broken cranks, collapsed cylinder walls, excessive blow-by due to excessively thin cylinder walls, burned pistons and valves, etc. Even among racers some take chances, and more often than not they get by. It's a matter of probabilities, and the more you ask for trouble the more likely you are to get some. How much risk one is willing to take, and how often are they going to do it.
     
  26. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,366

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    CutawayAl,
    You are the smartest boy in class! Have another chocolate chip cookie on me.
     
  27. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Don,

    Any of those engines seen 100K. Thats what I'm looking to get/ like to get before I am rebuilding again? I'd like to get this thing into the 350 HP range, more would be great but impractical for street use....

    Which type of piston 390 vs 352 will probably depend on how good my donor engine is. If it just needs honed, I will go with a 352 set. If it is an older block that needs some boring done anyhow I will probably bump up to the 390's.

    Thanks
     
  28. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Cliffords shows a TRIPLE SIDE DRAUGHT manifold for 389$.

    They recommend the weber carbs they sell for it. What are some comparable carbs for this setup?

    What all goes into a kit like this, as far as linkages between the carbs.

    Frenchtown, what type of work is involved to convert to the chevy rockers you mentioned earlier???
     
  29. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

  30. chopper cliff
    Joined: Aug 19, 2011
    Posts: 265

    chopper cliff
    Member
    from lodi ca

    I built a 240, same as 300 shorter stroke, for me 48 F1, the cyl head had same chambers as 351C,2V , it flowed real good with just an intake matchup, I used Clifford 2barrel with a holly 500cfm carb, Clifford headers, 3into 1 split, and I believe I used a cam, mild mid to high range, Crane I think, this was back in late 70's. Made believer's out a lot of 350 Chevy guys, it had a C4S trans and a 57 F100 9 inch with 355 gears, ran good pulled good and i drove it approx 160.000 miles. 6 in a row, gotta go. Cliff
     

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