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Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tlmartin84, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    The 5 speed manual 300's came with the M5OD-R2. Hydraulic clutch. Hurst makes a shifter for them.

    There ratios are 3.92/2.25/1.50/1.00/0.80.

    There are other versions of the M5OD, but the R2 is the F-150/Bronco version.
     
  2. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    What type of speedometer does that m50d R2. I had an 00' F150 rebuilt and I know the dash was all electronic in it...........Thing that sucks is I sold that truck right after I had the tranny rebuilt. Would love to that thing back.
     
  3. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    Pretty sure it's elec.
     
  4. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,093

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    The stock M5R2 came with an electronic speedo, but it is the same fitting and gear drive as most Ford Trans. So a cable unit from many earlier Ford trans will work. I replaced the '65 3spd+OD (from a Galaxie) with an M5R2 in my '51, and the speedo unit worked fine in both trans. In fact, that speedo unit also worked in the 4 spd New Process 435 ('81 F250) that the 3 spd replaced.

    The M5R2 is a great trans, good ratios, nice short shift pattern, and reasonably strong. It's biggest down fall is that the bellhousing isn't separate (Think AOD or C6 auto). This means it will only bolt up to Windsor and Cleveland V8's or the 240 / 300 sixes.
     
  5. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    Just a note while I think of it ..Last paragraph above..I think the M5R2 may be able to bolt behind a flathead [8ba] using an adaptor plate made for a C4 auto as the bolt patterns are the same..
     
  6. wisdonm
    Joined: Jun 20, 2011
    Posts: 444

    wisdonm
    Member

    I really love the DOHC valve cover.

    Back in the day, there was a guy in Detroit, I think, that would cut up three 351C heads and the reassemble and furnace braze various pieces to make a 300-6 head. These were legal and lethal in NHRA.

    Wonder if they ever made one out of aluminum?
     
  7. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    There was/is a very high dollar race only cylinder head that was built by Alan Johnson for the 300's. It didn't have any water jackets. And I think it cost over $10K not including the valve train parts. Here's the link scroll to the bottom of the page. http://www.alanjohnsonperformance.com/01cylinderheads.html
     
  8. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    If you're thinking of the Speedway adapter, I've had the same thought.
     
  9. GOATROPER02
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,059

    GOATROPER02
    Member
    from OHIO

    I've got a brand new cross flow head that can be bought REAL right if your interested

    Tony
     
  10. Subscribed. Good info.
     
  11. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    Well how about some pics and more info?
     
  12. GOATROPER02
    Joined: Mar 22, 2006
    Posts: 2,059

    GOATROPER02
    Member
    from OHIO

    I'm out of the shop till Monday,
    I can when I get back

    Tony
     
  13. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,093

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    I have thought about that as well, as I have both that adaptor and an M5R2. I suppose you would also have to put a spacer the same thickness as the adaptor between the flywheel and crankshaft flange in order to get the input shaft to ride in the pilot bushing correctly, and the starter to line up correctly. Should be fairly easy to do.
     
  14. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    That was Steve Ambrose, Bob Huettman, and Ray Argenta. I worked with Steve and knew Bob. Maybe they used iron heads at one point. I only know of them using aluminum heads to do what you mentioned. Per my previoius post, someone eventually made a casting, eliminating the need for welding together sectioned heads.

    As of a year or so ago they were still racing a 300, but a few years ago they went to a billet head. Although not streetable, the billet head makes more power than the production based head ever could.
     
  15. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Steve and Bob are still racing their seven second altered. Ray passed away a few years ago.

    The problem with using V8 cylinder head sections - aside from all the welding headaches - is that the bore centers on the 300 (4.480") are different from all Ford small block V8s (4.380"). Unless a head is built from SIX individual head sections the combustion chambers will not be perfectly aligned with the cylinder bores. A small offsetr of .050" can mean a huge difference in flow in any given cylinder.

    At any rate this discussion has strayed far from the original posters query of how to build a good street driven 300. Forget the troublesome, hybrid heads for a job like that.
     
  16. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Does anyone besides cliffords offer a bolt on dual carb intake for a 300??? I haven't found anything from offy.
     
  17. mtkawboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,213

    mtkawboy
    Member

    40 years ago I ran an H/G Anglia with a 310 Ford 6 in it. I had good luck at the time with a Holman Moody intake and a 600 Holley but they might be tough to find now. I used a Lakewood 302 bellhousing with a 428 Mustang top loader 4 speed behind mine. I highly recommend a good after market harmonic balancer that wasnt available back then. I had a hard time keeping the flywheel from loosening up. Tried extra dowels, locktite, safety wire, nothing worked for more then 6 runs. But this was a drag car, not a street car. Today Id use a C4 behind one
     
  18. Pops1532
    Joined: Jun 19, 2011
    Posts: 544

    Pops1532
    Member
    from Illinois

    I used to race a 300 dirt track car......
    Like others have said you can bore it to 4.05 and use the 390 slugs with full floating wrist pins. My block was good so I kept the stock bore and used 351W 4 barrel (flat tops) pistons. I think 69 Mustang was the only time a 351W 4 barrel engine was offered until the 351HO came out in the 80's. Anyway, I used the cheap cast pistons from Warshaski's (think JC Whitney), and SBC Total seal rings.
    Light porting and polishing, opened up the bowls, put in bigger SBC valves. Solid lifter Crane cam. Don't recall the specs but 284 duration comes to mind.
    I had stock rods and used a steel crank from an industrial engine. Don't recall what carb I used but it was under carbed. If I was running one now I'd use a 650...on the track. You won't need that much for the street. Seems I had both Clifford and Offy manifolds but I can't remember which one was better.
    I ran a stock Ford electronic ignition with the advance plate welded up. That ignition set up ran out of rpm's around 5800 which was fine with me because that's about the limit for stock rods.

    Some (maybe all?) 240's had a closed chamber head that will give you more compression.

    The aluminum cross flow head was pricey back in the day. Around 1990 they were selling for $5400 bare!
     
  19. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    A stock crank and rods should be fine with the 390 pistons, headwork, and intake. Or would you guy swap out the rods for aftermarket?
     
  20. seb fontana
    Joined: Sep 1, 2005
    Posts: 8,442

    seb fontana
    Member
    from ct

    I would think that "if" the above adaptor [for c4 behind 8ba] requires a 289/302 flexplate then the 300" flywheel [or a 289/302/351 v8 "0" bal] flywheel with same tooth count would mount the same way [adaptor or?]to the 8ba crank..Just have to figure pilot bearing, depth and id to suit the trans..I think it would be slick, and Ford [sorta]..
     
  21. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    No. If you want multiple carbs you either have to build or modify your own or roll the dice and spend $400-$500 buying the intake from Cliffords. And hope you get it! If things haven't changed recently they will charge your credit card the day you order the parts. But they take a week to 6 months to ship the parts out. So if you order from them good luck!





    All the 240 heads have the smaller closed chambers ( 68cc ) compared to the carbed 300's 76cc. Swapping a 240 head onto a carbed 300 is good for a .5 bump in the compression ratio. So if you have a 300 that has around a 8.5:1 compression the 240 head will bump it up to 9.0:1.

    They don't have the head listed in the price list so I don't know if he still sells them. But unless you have very deep pockets or race them professionally I can't see spending $10,000+ for a bare cylinder head!!






    Yes they will be fine unless you plan to run some really high rpms. Just go with some ARP rod bolts in the stock rods and you will be good to go. If you are really worried have the rod beams polished and have the rods shot-peended.

    I don't like 390 pistons for a 300. Boring the block .050" over just to run 390 pistons is a bad idea in my opinion. When boring the block I don't like to remove any more material then necessary. I prefer the 351W piston option. But they require you to bush the rods down to the .912" piston pin diameter if you have 68 or newer rods. But to me that's a better choice then the 390 pistons.
     
  22. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Anyone kept tabs of mileage after they bored theres over? I don't think 5 thousandths is going to kill the life of it....but maybe I'm wrong???
     
  23. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    Its fifty thousandths with the 390 slugs - not five. And I agree with Fordman75, thats a lot to take out. My el cheapo choice would be the 352 piston (4.000) with about .050 taken off the tops, using the stock rods.
     
  24. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Yeah that 5 was sposed to be 50, I was in a hurry, typo on my part...... So this brings me back to what I originally thought about doing, leaving the pistons stock(maybe an upgrade to aftermarket pistons). and shaving the head 60 thousandths like cliffords performance reccommends to up the compression.

    Any drawbacks to shaving the head besides clearance issues with the valves.

    Don't guys bore engines over quite frequently for rebuilds?
     
  25. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    French,

    I've been looking at your post on ford six about building these. When going with the 352 pistons and shaving the top off, is there any issues with burning through the tops of the pistons?

    Thanks
     
  26. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,093

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    0.050" won't affect them. The tops of those pistons will be quite thick. For a street motor, Silvolite makes a good and reasonably priced 352 slug. You won't even remove the valve clearance pockets completely at 0.050". It would be a good idea to re-balance the rotating assembly after the pistons are machined though.

    Typically I will only bore an engine if it is needed due to cylinder wall wear, damage, etc. The 352 pistons are a good option, there is just less choices available.

    Here is a quick pic of the said slug (+ 0.030) right before I put them into a 352. These are 9.5:1 pistons in a 352 with 72 cc heads.
    [​IMG]
     
  27. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    no, none.

    As far as shaving the head, I prefer to cut the block as a smaller cut is needed for any given reduction in ccs. No, there will not be any valve clearance issues with milling/decking as the valves clear the pistons by about .300 with the stock cam. You may have to make up custom length pushrods though. I recommend you make up a checking jig like this to get all the valvetrain perfect the first time:

    head_fixture_03.jpg head_fixture_04.jpg head_fixture_04_7.jpg



    Here's a 352 piston, CNC cut, ready to go in a low-buck bracket race motor:
    300_352 piston_01.jpg 300_352 piston_02.jpg 300_352 piston_03.jpg





    Some vestigal dome was left on this set for around 11:1 CR. Of course you can just flat turn off .050 to give you about 10.5 CR without all that milling/decking of the block / head nonsense.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2020
  28. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Guys, I have found an 83 F150 with a 300 and four speed for 700$. What type of transmission is it, got any ideas? Whats the odds of an 83 having AC?
     
  29. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member


    There were 3 different types of 4spds in 83 Ford trucks.

    1.NP435 ( Grany low 1st )
    2. Borg Warner T-18 ( also has a grany low 1st gear )
    3. There was also a 3 spd with OD I don't remember what it was called. Maybe a SROD? It was very strong.

    The NP435 and T-18 are nearly bullet proof. The biggest issues you run into with them are the shifters can get sloppy on high mileage units and the synchros get worn and it can be more difficult to shift and down shift. The NP435 is my personal favorite transmission.



    The 83 was available with or without A/C so it's a coin toss.
     
  30. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Can the transmissions with the granny gear be re-geared..........
     

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