metal shapers CHEAP english WHEEL

Right on John Kelly, That E- wheel is cheap junk the frame and base aren't welded togather or renforced it will move around like a flexy flier, go to MetalMeet and see some of the best metal shapers around and see what they use.

 

I have to say I find this whole thread entirely fascinating. It turned from cheap english wheel at HF to a moral stand against wal-mart and harbor freight. The working conditions are deplorable for most of these people who make the stuff in foreing countries, but what do you think would happen if these companies did nt manufacture stuff there? Do you think that there lives would improve? I think the opposite would happen they would have no jobs, and would have even less to survive on. It is a much deeper topic than overseas stuff is shit cause kids make it.

That being said, the tool in your hand rarely has anything to do with how good the finished product is. You could go out and buy the covell english wheel set up, but if you dont know shit about it your work is still gonna come out like shit. The same for the harbor freight one. If some skilled english wheeler uses it I am sure his results will be far better than someone who does not know what they are doing with a much higher quality one. I myself find that a nice slapper a good variety of dollies and a vixen file work pretty damn good for smoohting metal, but that is just IMHO.

It s not the tool, its the opereator.

Sam

 

Gosh guys, I see more are against this thing than for it. But, all the previous post with the HF beadroller & how with a little more beefing up, it can be a good tool makes me wonder. I buy alot of angle grinders from HF, pretty simple to me - My $10 grinder last me around a yr while the $80 one by one of the big names, last me around the same amount of time.

I'm a little leary on this E-wheel just because you can't see it in person. It's a online purchase only & the pic's posted are pretty cheasy, but other companys post pics of tools that are not perfect compaired to the actual tool, 'just to keep some internet guy from looking at the pic & building one.

I mean, a cheap ratchet will break sooner than a snapon, but it'll still get the job done for less cash, at least for people like me working 2 jobs just to get by, and the extra cash isn't exactly to buy the more expensive version of the tool.

Has anyone seen this thing in person. And, should a novice with no E-wheel experience buy a $3,000 nice one just to see if it's something he'd like to try to learn. I've heard alot of good stuff about that hand built E-wheel which was posted a couple weeks back using Ford Axle bearings & self centering implement bearing.
Carl Hagan

 

John is much too kind in his comments.

[FONT=arial, sans-serif][FONT=arial, sans-serif]"$ LESS THAN THE COST OF STEEL"
That should tell you everything you need to know right there.
How can anyone make something decent,ship it half way around the world,
and sell it for less than the cost of materials ?



You can buy Chicken Shit,or Chicken Salad.Your choice.
If you only look at the price,maybe you can't tell the difference.



Unfortunately,our society have "evolved" to where everyone
expects to make top dollar for whatever Shitty little job they do,
but they don't want to pay a fair price for the goods and services they buy.












[/FONT][/FONT]

 

I re read my post after posting it and thought i would clarify a little. I am not saying that you should buy cheap tools, I am saying the quality of tool does not always assure the quality of work. I would much rather have nice tools, because they make everything go smoother and much quicker....if you have the knowledge to use them if not a nice tool can do just as much damage as a cheap one.

 

I am just going to wait until someones arrives and see if they say it's a piece of shit or not. If it will work fine some small modifications, then I want one. How much shit can you talk about something you havn't tried.

 

After my 3-in-1 sheetmetal machine
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43353


broke IN HALF on the first use, I decided to not buy anything from them I can't afford to(or am physically capable of)throw away after one use.

 

After my 3-in-1 sheetmetal machine
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43353


broke IN HALF on the first use, I decided to not buy anything from them I can't afford to(or am physically unable to)throw away after one use.

 

I had the chance to use an imperial wheel a few years ago at a metal meet. I made a 28-29 model A doorskin and decklid. If you are looking for a screaming deal on an E-wheel, pay the 2600 bucks for one of those, it is a truely good deal.

 

your points are well taken, and I agree with you on some of them however in a sense, I am saying that a cheap gun can lay down as nice of paint as an expensive one, but in the other sense I am not. My personal paint gun is the Digital SATA HVLP, and I love it. I would never have purchased that gun as my first paint gun, far too expensive and not necessary for what I was doing. I then progressed, and my ability to handle a gun and lay down nice paint improved, and the logical next step is to buy the nicer equipment. Nice tools last longer and continually deliver quality work. This however is always dependent on the OPERATOR(thanks for pointing that out grammar police). If you don't maintain your nice tools, they wont last, and they wont do what that big price tag promises them to do.

There is always a place for quality in my toolbox, and I personally would not buy the HF english wheel, I am simply stating that if you don't have any idea what you are doing the tool in your hand makes absolutely no difference in the quality of work you put out. But if you do know what you are doing you can still produce quality work without quality tools.

Sam

 

It works the other way too. It's like trying to work with a piece of shit drill press. I don't care how skilled you are, it's not going to drill a round hole.

 

i don't think the HF wheel is going to SIGNIFICANTLY affect the small time builders of such products. those that truly care, will go for the good stuff, even if after trying a cheaper version. what the HF unit will do is make the tool more accessable for the average/below average user. if it helps a guy make new roof panels for his chop that don't require an inch of filler like all too many chops we've seen, then that is a good thing. there is room in the market for all levels of product. beadrollers are another good example, you got the HF one on the low end for a hundred bucks, that with a little work can do very well for the small time builder. on the high end you have Lazze's $5000 beadroller, and then you still have to buy his $170 book "how to use a bead roller". every guy cannot afford the $5000 beadroller. as much as i like having top of the line tools, my interests are too diverse to buy the best of every tool made, it only makes sense that a guy who is going to be making a living out of metalshaping buy the best, but it doens't make sense for a guy who may use it once a year to chop a top or reskin a door to break the bank on one tool.

FWIW i plan on building my own frame one of these years, a BIG HEAVY one with Hoosier Pattern anvils. it will be spendy, but top of the line. but right now i'm in a "small" rental garage where space is at a premium, and i already have several items that weigh #1000 or more to move, i don't need another big tool yet. so i'm giving some thought to the HF wheel for the time being, depending on what testimonials i hear when it arrives.

 

"It works the other way too. It's like trying to work with a piece of shit drill press. I don't care how skilled you are, it's not going to drill a round hole."

Most drill press machines will drill a round hole, if you set it up right. I used a cheap one for a long time and never had a problem, off shape holes are usually the product of too high of a drill speed

 

I've bought plenty from HF. Sometimes I've upgraded. I'm a hobbyist, so their tools are fine for most things I do.

Vote with your dollars. Don't like a place? Then don't shop there.

 

So, I guess no one has tried this thing yet. And sounds like most won't.

 

Not sure how that works when the thing has so much runout you can see the wobble. Guess I should have used the work "accurately" in there somewhere.

 

Im going to take the plunge and drop a CC on it.

I think with some use and (if needed) engineering, it can be improved upon. We did it with the HF Bead Roller.

Im a hobbyist and I do make money w/ my tools (mostly HF air, electric and hand tools.) I take care of them. Clean them up and store them in thier rightful place. Most of my "clients" I do work for are not the "high dollar Boyd" chasers, just average folks who want some repairs, or some dreamed about custom ideas they thought they could never afford; yet done right, but a bang for thier dollar.

If I do come across a job that will require the use of "high end" tooling, I buckle down (budget permitting) and make the purchase. Good Example: My Martin Hammers and Dollies. I wouldnt use anything else, and know why.

If I can learn the concept on this wheel for a measly few hundred bucks, its a huge plus for me. Sell it, and If permitted, go for the plunge of a better wheel...which more than likely be much easier if they are as good as others say.

These tools may be cheap, but thier value will always be there. Maybe not to us, but maybe to another beginner.

 

Just curious, did you take it and get your money back?

 

Too fuckin' heavy! And it sat on the work bench for several months before I got a chance to use it and break it.

 

Right, as long as they're not broken.

My experience has been most of their (Harbor Fright) stuff is junk and doesn't last very long.

 

There has been some discussion on MetalMeet regarding this English Wheel.

http://www.metalmeet.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6862

 

guess I'll throw in my cent (I had two cents to throw this morning, but I bought a piece of gum at lunch from the east-indian guy down the hall).

Those Japanese and Taiwanese and Korean children of yester-year sure built better junk than these Chinese kids today!!!

and those are probably the boys and girls that grew up to go open these plants in China and are the hard-working folks that are now blessed enough to get to have a cement floor in their house instead of just dirt... figure? and yeah, I guess the horrific factory job is a little worse than starving out in the rural Chinese rice paddies.

 

So that's how they can afford to sell everything
for less than the cost of the materials ?

Fucking Wonderful.

Now just try and compete against them.

 

so is this about "Slave children" or how we can actually use this tool? Who cares about the cost, were not going to change anything "lip flapping" about it here. (Im not saying I support what's going on, I just know there isnt anything I can do. But if it saves me a few coins...then so be it. )

Lets get back to the real issue....English wheel from overseas...use it or loose it!

 

Calculate the stiffnes of that frame,in bending,
based on the specs given.

You'll find it to be under 5 lbs/.001" deflection.
Just like most of the low end,built to a price,English Wheels.

 

is that a good thing or a bad thing. cory

 

Based on percentages, I would suggest buying the cheap wheel, because there will likely be a large percentage that will never get used more than once anyway, so why spend all the money on a good one! Just think how many unfinished hot rod projects are out there because of the overwhelming amount of work and money it takes to built a car. The english wheel is a complex tool to master, and the average home builder is really only buying it because it seems like a magic bullet. How many compound curves are you gonna make anyhow to make it worth the time and floor space this thing is going to use up? I guess the bottom line is this, it is cheap, it probably will do some form of metal forming, and it surely will impress Uncle Louie when you make him a patch panel for his wheelbarrow!

 

Do you use that logic buying car parts ?

Buy the cheapest Crap you can find,
because it probably won't work anyway.

If you bought,or made,something decent,
it will work properly,and you are more likely to use it.

-------
If you like the Horrible Freight "Body hammers",
you will love the English Wheel.

 

THAT'S why I buy tools,to impress people.

 

Cantalevered beam deflection is a function of Load,
Length,and Moment of Inertia of the section used:
http://www.engineersedge.com/beam_bending/beam_bending9.htm

On my English Wheel,the throat is 24",
the frame is 4"x4"x1/4" and the vertical column
is internally reinforced with a 3" dia 1/4 tube
plug welded in place.

The combined Moment of Inertia is 12.2
For comparison,the MOI of 4x4x1/4 is 8.8
And for 2x4x1/4 it is 5.3


What you end up with is a flimsy frame,
prone to twisting in use.So instead of putting
energy into the panel,you waste it flexing the frame.