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when was the first four barrel carb introduced

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by sun down, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,207

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    Std modern holley 4 bbls came out in the late 50's early 60's, '57 rings a bell
     
  2. Bruce Lancaster
    Joined: Oct 9, 2001
    Posts: 21,681

    Bruce Lancaster
    Member Emeritus

    I think a version of the 600 4160 much like the familiar 1850 was used on '57 Fords and was the first use.
     
  3. Shaggy
    Joined: Mar 6, 2003
    Posts: 5,207

    Shaggy
    Member
    from Sultan, WA

    That's what i though wasnt sure, i belive i've seen 'em on t-birds
     
  4. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

  5. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

  6. Would think the link would tell you. Only one I'm familiar with is a race carb that wasn't very successful. Looks like a 4bbl with a big oval secondary. 1970s era.
     
  7. My old Buick had a 4 barrel in 1952, as far as I know it was one of the first.

    [​IMG]
     
  8. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    The pictured Stromberg three-barrel was a prototype produced about 1935~1936. Its intended use was dual three-barrels on the V-12 Cadillac. However, Cadillac discontinued the V-12, and the three-barrel project was "mothballed".

    I have the prototype in my museum.

    Carter made a "three-barrel" AFB for Pontiac in 1963. Part number is 3636s. Measured CFM by flow test 939 at 1.5 in Hg, 1128 at 3.0 in Hg.

    Jon.
     
  9. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 8,558

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    Its main purpose was to provide maximum airflow in situations (like NASCAR) where rules limited you to one carburetor. It's also the reason for that clearance notch in the plenum divider on an Edelbrock C3B intake.
     
  10. rsquared
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 4

    rsquared
    Member
    from kokomo,in

    I had a "56" Dodge with a "hemi head, 4 barrel, torqueflite (push button, on the dash) that was totally stock.
     
  11. 53Capri
    Joined: Sep 16, 2009
    Posts: 6

    53Capri
    Member
    from Wa

    The Lincoln 317 y blocks got a 4 bbl Holley 2140 in 1953.
     
  12. R Pope
    Joined: Jan 23, 2006
    Posts: 3,309

    R Pope
    Member

    Had a '54 Merc with a "Towering Inferno" Holley 4bbl. "Teapot" carb. Also had a couple 3bbl's. Mechanical secondary, hit it too soon and you could hear the bog for miles! The only thing it worked on was a Racer Brown cammed 440 magnum. I even tried it on a wild little 283! After 5000 RPM it went insane, below that, nothin'!
    The WCFB was a good, but small, carb, as was the early "rock catcher", but the teapot Holley was an abomination.
     
  13. timothale
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 234

    timothale
    Member

    3 barrel Holly I don't know if I still have It after a shop fire , i had a 3 barrel holly about 1100 CFM , secondary was a big oval. poor response untill 5000 rpm.
     
  14. dickster27
    Joined: Feb 28, 2004
    Posts: 3,209

    dickster27
    Member
    from Texas

    Actually, from all the data I have read the Stromberg 4a Aero was indeed the first production 4 barrel carbie used, as has been stated above, on the '52 thru'54 Buicks exclusively and from there were used on aircraft engines, hense the verbage "aero". Next up was the WCFB, and allyall know the rest. It is also interesting to note, that the 4a was a hotrodders choice for a while and one of the reasons why so many early 2x4 intakes had the small 4 barrel bolt pattern , as did the 4a.
     
  15. fab32
    Joined: May 14, 2002
    Posts: 13,985

    fab32
    Member Emeritus

    When did the Olds get a 4bbl? they went overhead in what...1949? I thought they had a 4bbl early on.

    Frank
     
  16. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 8,558

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY


    Olds started offering 4bbl carbs in 1952. Both Rochester 4GC and Carter WCFB carbs were used.
     
  17. flathead4d
    Joined: Oct 24, 2005
    Posts: 898

    flathead4d
    Member

    I ran a WCFB off of a 56 Chrysler in my 8-BA flattie for several years back in the mid to late 50's. Still have it and the flattie.
     
  18. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    Stromberg had a 4A carburetor for the 1955 Dodge, until Carter came in with a lower bid.

    All of the early (1952~1954) four barrel carbs used the almost square (3.75 x 3.875) flange. Some models were switched to the rectangular pattern in 1955. Not everyone switched at the same time. Some makes continued to use the 3.75 x 3.875 pattern up through about 1975.

    As to bog on the three barrels: the Carter three barrel was one to one linkage (the primary and secondary opened together). The carb was designed STRICTLY for NASCAR use on the 421 Pontiac. We have set up a couple for street use, and modified the linkage such that the carb actually had a primary and a secondary. This is quite easy to do by transfering the secondary linkage from a Carter Competition Series 4760s to the Carter three-barrel 3636s.

    The Holleys came in two sizes (950 and 1050). Interestingly (at least to me), the Holley 1050 is smaller than the Carter which flowed 939. Truth in advertising??? Holley used vacuum secondaries, although there were aftermarket gear sets to convert to mechanical secondary.

    Jon.
     
  19. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    -----------------------------
    Thanks for that. That's the first I've ever heard of the Stromberg 3-bbl. Great pics of it on your link too! That is one unique piece! It's too bad Stromberg canceled the carb after Cadillac decided to drop the V12. I imagine in the midst of the depression though, that other than the discontinued Cadillac V12, Stromberg probably didn't see much of a market for it with other manufacturers. If it had ever been produced, a pair of them would be so, so cool, mounted sideways on an inline 6!!!:D

    I love odd-ball and experimental and prototype stuff - like your Stromberg and AFB 3-bbls. The closest I've ever come having any really cool 'weird' stuff', was when for a few weeks back in the late- 70's I owned a pair of Autolite inline 4-bbls mounted on a - 'modified to take two of them' - Ford "Cross-Boss" Boss 302 cross ram from an early 70's pro-stocker. At the time, the carbs and intake were considered just so much 'obsolete racing junk' and I think I bought the whole set-up, for $350. Somebody wanted it more than me though and I sold it a few weeks later for $500! I wish I still had it now though! About your museum - I'm wondering what other weird and wonderful carbs you have in your collection? If you have pictures of your more unusual stuff, that would make for a great new thread here on the HAMB!

    Mart3406
    ========================
     
    Last edited: Feb 11, 2010
  20. I believe the carb that was on my '52 Buick was a Carter, I am pretty sure it wasn't a Stromberg - however it may have been replace before it got into my hands.
     
  21. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    Mart - glad you enjoyed the pictures of the Stromberg. While we have a LOT of experimental stuff, most of it is pre-war. Here are a couple of pictures of the Carter three barrel:

    http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/SD3636bottom.jpg

    http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/SD3636top.jpg

    Also have some two barrels that flow 900 CFM, and an experimental job that flows over 1200 CFM, but no pictures at present.

    Other experimental units in my "museum"

    Holley auto choke carburetor for model T Ford
    Kingston two barrel for 1934 Ford V-8
    Stewart-Warner prototype for Ford T
    Holley prototype for 4 cylinder Chevrolet
    Holley prototype for V-12 Lincoln

    Many others, but most are older stuff.

    Jon.
     
  22. HEATHEN
    Joined: Nov 22, 2005
    Posts: 8,558

    HEATHEN
    Member
    from SIDNEY, NY

    It was probably the original carb--Buick used both Carter and Stromberg from '52-'54.
     
  23. Kandy Drippa
    Joined: Feb 9, 2009
    Posts: 41

    Kandy Drippa
    Member
    from Twin Ports

    my 53 cadillac 331 has a Carter 4bbl, also got a Rochester 4bbl with it too
     
  24. B F B
    Joined: Jan 12, 2012
    Posts: 2

    B F B
    Member
    from Utica, NY

    Buick offered "Dual Compound Carburetion", consisting of two, two barrel
    carburetors and a split exhaust manifold on their OHV straight eight in 1941 and
    '42. On the 320 cube engine, it was rated at 165 hp. Cadillac, with 150 hp from
    their flathead V8, complained to GM brass that this was an insult to their (Cadillac's) status. With our involvement in WWII, and the halting of passenger car production, Caddy's whine became a moot point. Apparently Buick continued to expirament, and a Buick engineer named Braun developed the four barrel carburetor, which made its production debut on the 1952 Buick Roadmaster's
    320 cid OHV straight eight.

    First four barrel carburetor: Buick, 1952.
     
  25. a little off topic sorta
    i bought a 1927 Garwood boat that had a V12 flathead with gargood cast on it
    this had a small 4 barrel on it
    at that time they said this was the original engine in it
    the boat was a Rum Runner that was run outside the gate bridge San Fransisco to
    Pt Reyse area
    i think it was 33'
    right after purchased some one with lots of $ bought it from me
     
  26. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    According to Smokey Yunick, he and Murray Jensen were working on the 4150 design in his shop in 1957. I know theres something very wrong with the grammer in that sentence, so I am expecting to get smacked by the HAMB grammer police...
     
  27. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    Actually the 3bbl disappeared because 4500's were cheaper to make. Thats what I heard anyway. I have 2 3bbls, and a couple dominators, so I dont have a vested interest one way or the other.
     
  28. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    I have seen the carter 3bbl before, not sure where, but you see that odd-shaped throttle plate once, you arent likely to forget it any time soon.
     
  29. falcongeorge
    Joined: Aug 26, 2010
    Posts: 18,341

    falcongeorge
    Member
    from BC

    The booster venturi in the primary side of the carter is bulkier, and presents more of a obstacle to incoming air than the downlegs used in the primary side of the Holley 3bbls. That probably accounts for the difference in flow numbers. Theres more to airflow numbers than just venturi/throttle plate area. I have a 650 double pumper that picked up 40 cfm on my flow bench just from switching from nozzle bar boosters to undercut downlegs.
     
  30. B F B
    Joined: Jan 12, 2012
    Posts: 2

    B F B
    Member
    from Utica, NY

    Any photos of the V12 Gar Wood flathead? That would be neat to see! Both the engine, and the beautiful wood of the boat itself! Thanks.
     

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