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Batten B4 4-Valve DOHC

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by TOL, Sep 14, 2012.

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  1. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,752

    Deuces

    I left Batten Performance in '95... I think they went "belly up" in '98-'99..
     
  2. TOL
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 17

    TOL
    Member
    from Canada

    Hey Lelle, thanks for posting. Hope all is well with you. You got your's runing yet? :).... Drop me an e-mail to let me know how your project is coming along.
     
  3. TOL
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 17

    TOL
    Member
    from Canada


    Which cam company?...
     
  4. TOL
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 17

    TOL
    Member
    from Canada


    The fumerelle/greer B4's looked like this pic, with spindly little cam drives that would snap off without warning. Yeah, keep your arm in front of your face with one of these in operation....

    The one in the earlier pic was originally built for Jim Allen. The plan was to set the Winternationals 1991 Top Fuel ET & Speed record. Various things conspired, and that never happened.

    Note in the earlier pic just how much beefier the cam snout drives are (ball bearing, non cantilever load). This became a signature trait for all subsequent B4's, blown or otherwise.

    Thanks.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 18, 2012
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  5. TOL
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 17

    TOL
    Member
    from Canada

    1998.
     
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  6. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,456

    noboD
    Member

    I know this discussion has nothing to do with traditional hotrods, BUT PLEASE continue it here. Don't go off to emails and such. There are many of us that love the history of how and why weird stuff happened. And you guys were THERE and did it and are still doing it. Thanks for the history lesson, even if it wasn't that long ago.
     
  7. TOL
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 17

    TOL
    Member
    from Canada

    Back onto the original topic......

    Who's got pics or articles or cool old story's that they can share about these engines? Surely people snapped pics back then??? The pics are probably in shoe boxes in attics by now. Maybe those could be dusted off and passed along?

    I'm compiling an archive of the history, bit by bit.....

    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks
     
  8. LelleO
    Joined: Sep 17, 2012
    Posts: 3

    LelleO
    Member
    from Stockholm

    Tosti 1989 Norwalk
    [​IMG]
     
  9. LelleO
    Joined: Sep 17, 2012
    Posts: 3

    LelleO
    Member
    from Stockholm


    Hello,
    No, I'm not up and running yet, but I have started the hunt for sponsors :)
    I will keep you updated ...

    Some more pics from Batten 89.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  10. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    Sometimes,but how about the several hundred thousand 1600-2200 cubic inch WW2 V-12 aircraft engines built by Allison,Rolls Royce and Mercedes with 4 valve heads? Or a modern O/T Cummins Diesel or the various 5-6 liter DOHC engines from them foreign brands?
     
  11. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,025

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    The main thing the American 2-valve pushrod V8 has going for it is well over half a century's accumulated stigmergic refinement. Overhead cams operating multiple valves will theoretically flow more air and wiggle less mass about, but such vernacular development is not to be sneezed at.
     
  12. In about 1960 I was at CT automotive learning to balance motors there was an dual ohc conversion on a V8 Chevrolet that was built in the mid 50's by a guy named Clem Teboe (spelling).
    It was quite a site to see for a youngster new to automotive world. I think the shop was in Van nuys , Ca.
     
  13. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    And the LS engine used by Chevy is really the last hi performance 2 valve pushrod engine.The LS, by using more displacement than the DOHC engine, is more than competitive. And in fact more than once said by those who know , to be the best V-8 engine available regardless of design or price.
     
  14. whamoman
    Joined: Jun 23, 2008
    Posts: 152

    whamoman
    Member
    from USA

    C. J Batten
    [email protected]
     
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  15. TOL
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 17

    TOL
    Member
    from Canada

    Ouch. It looks hurt. The Tosti Batten car was a funny. This looks like a Pro Mod? Might not have been a B4 powered entry? REVISED - I take that back, it does apear to be the B4 Funny car just the damage made it look kinda weird at first.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  16. TOL
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 17

    TOL
    Member
    from Canada

    Thanks Lelle. For those following, this is a 509 cubic inch NA B4 from an offshore race boat called the "Jesse James" (48 foot cat). One of twelve built for the JJ.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  17. Weyburn-Bartel in Grand Haven, MI
     
  18. TOL
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 17

    TOL
    Member
    from Canada

    Yes, great guy to talk with and very smart.

    Apparently, almost all of his old pics and historical articles were lost in a flood. I've managed to compile a decent sized archive over the years, but I'm always on the watch for new stuff, espicially old candid shots. It's amazing how small the world is now with the internet.

    Breaking away from the racing theme for a moment, does anybody know of any hot rods, street rods, or street vehicles running around with B4's in them these days? I've been told that there is a certain 40's something Chev truck with a blown mechanical injected B4 in it. Likewise, a Corvette convertible in Cal that has a mech injected NA B4 in it. There are probably others too.

    Any leads/photos/contacts would be apreciated.......
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2012
  19. bloom4mich
    Joined: May 24, 2013
    Posts: 3

    bloom4mich
    Member
    from Michigan

    I do know quite a bit about the B4. I ran the motor in a Funny Cay, both Alcy and Fuel. With Carl and Shirl. I did most of the work on the motor in the field. If you want to know the truth...ask me!
     
  20. bloom4mich
    Joined: May 24, 2013
    Posts: 3

    bloom4mich
    Member
    from Michigan

    I worked very close to C.J. Batten with the B4 motor. We ran both Alcohol and Fuel. With Carl Fumerelle and Shirl Greer. If anybody has any questions about the integrity of the heads, cams and snout, valve train, or anything, I will tell you the truth. The truth is...the B4 is a very strong motor, with very few internal design concerns. Gordie Dollar did an outstanding job. The problem was always with the learning curve, that's it.
     
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  21. bloom4mich
    Joined: May 24, 2013
    Posts: 3

    bloom4mich
    Member
    from Michigan

    Gotta tell ya...I was with the Tosti Corvette Funny Car from the first day we ran as Awesome Force right through Shirl Greer driving when we were sponsored by Tosti. I do not ever remember the cams failing on fuel. The only time we had an issue was back in 87 or 88 when we first started on alcohol, Carl Fumerelle was driving. At that time we did have a problem with harmonics running above 10.000 rpm, and the cams shattered, only due to the fact that the early cams were cast not forged. Batten designed the floater carrier after that, before we ran fuel, and before Shirl sat in the car.
     
  22. noboD
    Joined: Jan 29, 2004
    Posts: 8,456

    noboD
    Member

    You never know who's going to stop by the HAMB. Welcome bloom4mich.
     
  23. Hefty Lefty
    Joined: Apr 30, 2013
    Posts: 170

    Hefty Lefty
    Member

    It comes down to cost. Period.

    GM designed a four cam V8 for the Corvette, the famous ZR-1. I think they made a few thousand. Most seem to be garage queens, and the engine is not in any demand I know of. The northstar was designed as a simplified version of this for Cadillac. But it made power. They had to make it fit the C4 engine bay and took some liberties to get the width down. Lotus designed it and the reference designs they looked at were the DFV/DFX Cosworth and the Aston Martin V8.

    Anyone who does not think a four valve engine works in a bigger displacement version needs to look at the Offenhauser fours, two and four cycle Detroit Diesels or the 1710 Allison V12.

    The bottom line is that you can flow more air in and out of a circle with four holes all within its diameter than with two. The downside with more than four is that the valve seats and passages take up more passageway space than the flow area.

    There are two disadvantages to four valve engines, the valves being smaller heat up faster and the engine will burn or eat a valve a lot faster if cylinder conditions are wrong for a short time, and there is less room for things like spark plugs. In aircraft this is important, in cars less so.

    Detroit is all about build cost and GM the most so, but they also have the best engineering resources, or did historically.

    The overhead cam conversions for the SBC are ugly and bulky and none of them ever impressed me in the least. But there WAS a pushrod four valve head for the Mopar B/RB engine that I would have liked to have, I remember seeing them in the magazines but there is no reference to them I can find on Google today.
     
  24. Hefty Lefty
    Joined: Apr 30, 2013
    Posts: 170

    Hefty Lefty
    Member

    That is probably true, but a four cam engine of equal displacement could certainly make more power. It would be a wider, taller engine and it would be a lot heavier. I think the LS is probably the last new pushrod design for production use because 1) even if the US doesn't the ROW still taxes on displacement, and 2) the future points to camless electronically controlled valvetrains.
     
  25. Batten B4 4-Valve DOHC
     
  26. blown240
    Joined: Aug 2, 2005
    Posts: 1,814

    blown240
    Member
    from So-cal

    I'm a Batten, I wonder if i'm related somehow?
     
  27. AaronDetroit
    Joined: Dec 5, 2020
    Posts: 1

    AaronDetroit

    Apologies for resurrecting this, but I had to after finding it while trying to find info on the miniature V12's Batten was contracted to make for a model enthusiast.

    You are correct. Batten did do Quad-4 work for Olds. They made a highly modified, single turbo, version for Olds to use in one of three Oldsmobile Aerotechs. The shortail Batten version broke a closed course top speed record and the engine was constantly on display in the shop with a plaque that noted 1,000hp, on pump gas iirc.

    What very few know, is that one of the three Aerotechs was destroyed. The driver (not Foyt, forgot the other guy's name) hit deer that came into the track. He was doing close to 200mph when he hit it. Video footage of it was circulated around the higher-ups at Batten and I was lucky enough to have seen it. The deer was literally vaporized into a red mist, the car was obliterated, and thankfully the driver lived with just minor injuries.

    The Max-12 was designed to be the powerplant of a car Batten was designing in collaboration with a body designer in Texas. Iirc he did some work for Pininfarina and Ferrari. I believe three Max-12s were made. Two were magnesium blocks and one aluminum. Sinking money into this project is what ultimately helped to bankrupt the company (along with a couple other things). Especially since they couldn't keep the Max-12 from crapping rods out the side of the block. Something to do with temperature coefficient between the magnesium block, iron sleeves and aluminum pistons I think. It was a literal money pit.

    There was also a twin turbo V-6 Bronco II that Batten did for someone, not sure as that was before I worked there. I want to say I also remember hearing about two Ford 2.3L I4's being connected together, end to end, to make a 4.6L straight 8. Again, before I worked there.

    Deuces, you may know me, if not, you probably know my father. I'm Aaron, son of Louis who was head of QC at Batten. I ran CNC for a short period on nights at the small shop before we moved across the street to the bigger facility, where the speed shop was, in the industrial park where I continued CNC nights for a while before becoming the "tool crib kid" on days.
    I actually still have my Brown & Sharpe calipers that were validated by Jim V, who worked under Lou. Stickers still there on the back. Oh the memories.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2020
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  28. Deuces
    Joined: Nov 3, 2009
    Posts: 23,752

    Deuces

    Is or was Lou a short guy????...... Sorry I asked.. it's been 25 years since I worked there....
     
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