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Jag Jaguar IRS into a 46' International Harvester

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by IRON MAIDEN, Feb 2, 2011.

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  1. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
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    Not that bad as in price? I was quoted $380 for a used set!
     
  2. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 7,174

    73RR
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  3. Oldb
    Joined: Apr 25, 2010
    Posts: 222

    Oldb
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    I will be watching your progress closely. I am doing ft and rear in a 56 f100. I am going to use the jag mounting as well. I still can't believe how good a shape the xj6 you took those out of is in.

    B
     
  4. Oldb
    Joined: Apr 25, 2010
    Posts: 222

    Oldb
    Member

    Do your homework on replacing the ring and pinion. It is close to a 44 but actually a Salsbury. Jag ring gear has 1/2" holes, different than a 44. In my mind best solution is to use a 44 carrier and ring and pinion, you need a different carrier if you go lower than around 3:73. Jag also uses differnt bearings so don't buy a 44 install kit. Also there may be a different spline count on the pinion for the yoke, although I had a friend tell me he did not think so. In most Jags I have read the stub axles are different spline (19?) than most 44 axles. I would recomend taking it apart before you order to be sure of the sline count. That is what I am going to do anyway.

    b
     
  5. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
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    Don't think I havn't been searching. It's not a regular D44.
     
  6. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    Nope it's actually Spicer's earlier style called a Salisbury. But you can use Dana 44 gears. You have choices, use the later style carrier or sleeved or shouldered bolts, the holes in the Salisbury carrier are 7/16" and the holes on the Dana 44 ring gears are 3/8". Easy enough. Gear sets are $200-250. I've also heard of taking the holes on the gear to 7/16"
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2011
  7. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
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    There are some other differences as well. Believe the pinion bearing is different too. I've never had the pleasure of fooling with a differencial other than a fluid changes. Nor do I want to pay a shop to swap them for me. I am hoping I can find a reasonable source for the proper Jag gear setup and or an adapter kit to make the swap easy. I did find this site. I'm gonna email them and see what response I get.

    http://www.precisiongear.com/dana44kit.htm
     
  8. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
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    from Garner, NC


    You're really making this out to be harder than it is. The bearings are cake. Most all are chevy part numbers as are the u-joints.
     
  9. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
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    It's simply because I've never done it myself, seen it done, or been able to find a thread on it online. I've found plenty that talk about it, but none that actually go through the procedure. But my decision to use the Jag rear was knowing I have time to figure it out. If I already knew how to do it and where to get the parts, I still would wait as I have no need for it at this point.
     
  10. 73RR
    Joined: Jan 29, 2007
    Posts: 7,174

    73RR
    Member

    Sorry, just going off of the earlier post....

    Originally Posted by IRON MAIDEN [​IMG]
    It's a Dana 44 so

    ...and since I have a swap planned I am trying to glean as much info as possible to shorten my learning curve.
     
  11. timothale
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 234

    timothale
    Member

    Lots of good info, we have a 46 international, and can get jag front and rear for $ 100 each, just waiting for it to warm up a bit,to make a trip to a bone yard. We put a jag rear ..in my son's 22 dodge lakester and used the CCR T bucket plans. The rear hairpins are about 4 ft long C to C and canted to brackets along side the frame we cut up the jag rear arms to use the rubber and steel sleeve, we might do the hairpins on th truck. With a long arm you don't get bump push, 'the old Xke racers didn't like the rubber mounted rear ends, the rear end tended to push you around the corners.
     
  12. timothale
    Joined: Feb 3, 2007
    Posts: 234

    timothale
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    cage to frame mount, I dug out the CCR plans and the XKE cage mounts parallel to the T frame, The XJ has a slight angle it looks to be mabe 5 degrees. I'll check it tomorrow. of course that depends on your frame rake angle and engine mounting angle
     
  13. toddc
    Joined: Nov 25, 2007
    Posts: 976

    toddc
    Member

    I'll try again. Make up some brackets that bolt to the parts car where the rubber mounts fit the rails, and continue these brackets down to where the radius arms mount.
    When you have holes drilled in your truck chassis to mount the rubbers you can then use the brackets to position the mounts for the radius arms in exactly the right spot.

    Also, grab the tailshaft and handbrake cable from the parts car too :)
     
  14. toddc
    Joined: Nov 25, 2007
    Posts: 976

    toddc
    Member

    This is just some general advise on Jag rear ends. Check the cage for cracks before spending too much time on one. This crack was in one of mine. There were more cracks on the front face too. :eek::eek::eek:
    [​IMG]
     
  15. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    Thanks Toddc. I will look the cage over. My parts car is in a tow yard so it's a bit hard to fab anything there. I will however take the rubber mounts back over there and measure their location in relation to the front arm mounts. With the cage mounting in a different frame set at a different rake, I'm sure it's gonna be a little different. I'm gonna read up more on the arms and maybe using a different setup if it's possible. Not too worried right now. I did put the bed back on and will try to get the rear centered in the fenders how I want it. Once I have the frame marked for the position of the rear, I will pull the bed back off and start working on the mounts.
     
  16. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
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    I forgot to ask about this. When I was pulling the Jag IRS out of the donor car, something I've never seen before happened. When I removed the driveline from the differencial, the flange that is, fluid drained out. There was maybe a cup or so of fluid that drained out and that's the end of it. It's not leaking as it sits under my truck. Is this normal? What would cause it if it's not normal? Doesn't appear that it has been leaking yet the space between the flange and where it mounts was full of fluid?????
     
  17. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
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    I'm cage mounting the rear with the rubber mounts. The issues I'm having are just not knowing or understanding how to set the rear up. I am a visual guy and seeing pictures help me understand what I am reading. I have had several people try to explain how the radius arms should be mounted. I'm not grasping it so pictures are needed to tie it all together.
    Beyond my questions of the radius arms are many other questions. Let's say my frame is sitting at the rake I want it at. I position the Jag cage/IRS up under the frame in the position it needs to be in. Do I set the cage to mount level? Where on the cage do I place my level? On the tom above the pumpkin? Underneath the pumpkin?
    By leveling the cage, does that also set the pinion at 0 degrees? Or do I angle the cage 3-5 degrees to set my pinion? Will that effect the suspension?
    Another question is again about the radius arms. As it sits, not enough weight is on the rear to drop the suspension into the neutral position. The lower control arms are angled down. Are they supposed to be level with the ground like on the front Jag suspension? Do I need to get them in this position to figure out the radius arm mounting?
    Too many questions.......
     
  18. The jag IRS in my project is mounted solid. When I started to locate the radius rods I removed one spring on both sides and It sat near level which is what I want. used 47 ford radius rods and made a housing at the rear for the original jag rubber mount and rod ends at the front. When the springs went back on the radius rods now are at an angle but expect it to level out when finished and loaded. I will adjust the front rod ends at that time. The original rear Jag mounts leave some movement for vertical spring action.
    My front and rear came from an XJS12 so the springs at least the front are quite stiff. With the gas tank going behind the rear diff my weight should work out better,"I hope"
    Interesting thing,today I jacked up the front right hand under the lower control arm and the right rear wheel started coming off the ground,very little flex in my frame.
    I did not find parts costs to out of line for the brakes and discs.
    http://1948fordpickup.blogspot.com
    Thomas
     
  19. need louvers ?
    Joined: Nov 20, 2008
    Posts: 12,903

    need louvers ?
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    I have to admit that it has been years since I was involved with a Jag install, but I can just about guarentee that you want to mount the rear so that the pinion is on the same angle as your trans output. That's just basic stuff, otherwise you could end up with some driveline vibration. As far as where the arms should be, level is a good bet, or just slightly angled down. To get there, I would pull the coil overs out, make some very quick replacements that would hold the arms at level, slide the whole thing under the truck with the tires and wheels you will be using on it, bring the frame down to where you want your ride hieght to be, check for center in the wheel wells, then finally set the pinion angle to match the trans, mount. Most Jag suspended vehicles I have looked at over the years have had the radius rods mounted one of two locations, Either out to the frame rails, or under the rails towards the center of the car. If possible, I would do the latter and make the mounts the same distance apart as the hinge points for the lower arms on the rear end. I have seen both done, but the latter would be more "geometrically correct". The rear end relies on having the realitively stiff lower arms to keep the alignment straight, the radius rods are there to help keep fore to aft movement to a minimum.
     
  20. toddc
    Joined: Nov 25, 2007
    Posts: 976

    toddc
    Member


    That will be diff oil that has leaked down the splines of the pinion. Its pretty common. When you do your final assembly, put a smear of silicone between the flanges, top up the oil level, and you'll never have a problem with it.
     
  21. toddc
    Joined: Nov 25, 2007
    Posts: 976

    toddc
    Member

    [​IMG]

    The loose strap in the pic above needs to be bolted to the chassis at its loose end. It stops the radius arm from falling on the ground when the rubber mount fails - and they do fail! Imagine what would happen if the radius arm hit the ground at speed....

    Have a look at these links when you have some time, there is some good relevant info.:)
    http://www.ozrodders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17968
    http://www.ozrodders.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17919&start=210


    I have to go to where my XJ6 is at today, I'll let you know what angle. The angle of the suspension is more important than the pinion angle. Set the suspension at the right angle and then adjust the angle of the motor and box to match the pinion angle - not vice versa.
    The upper control arms ( that is - the half shafts ) need to be level at normal ride height. That is, at normal ride height, you should be able to draw a straight line through all the universal joints. The lower arms will angle down towards the outside.
    [​IMG]

    Leave the radius arms until last, as the other measurements are more important.

    Thanks to the people I borrowed the images from too:D
     
  22. toddc
    Joined: Nov 25, 2007
    Posts: 976

    toddc
    Member

    Ok, I checked out my stock standard XJ6 series 3.

    On the base of the suspension there are 8 bolts that go through the bottom plate. I measured off these bolts because the bottom plates are always bent.

    My spirit level rested firmly on the forward most bolt, and required a 5mm spacer under the rear most bolt to make it level.
    Therefore, the back of the suspension cage is slightly higher off the ground than the front with the car empty (no passengers) and parked on level concrete.

    Let me know if you need more info.
     
  23. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member


    Thanks. Do you know if the bottom plate is parallel with the top of the cage? That would sure make it easier to adjust for mounting if I can put my angle finder or level on top of the cage.
    I guess I should pull the coilovers out of the rear and rig something up that rigidly locks the suspension in the "Half-shafts in a straight line" position. Kind of think I should go ahead and pull the front coils out as well and level the lower control arms. That way both the front and rear suspensions are in their loaded riding positions.
     
  24. toddc
    Joined: Nov 25, 2007
    Posts: 976

    toddc
    Member

    I don't know about the top angle. If you set it up on a level bench with 5mm more shims under the rear bolts than the front in the bottom plate, you could whack the angle finder on top and get a number to work with.

    Taking the springs out and replacing them with solid supports will save a bunch of time and headaches in the long run. Well worth the effort.
     
  25. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    5 degrees

    That's to say if you have the bottom parallel with the ground the top of the center section will be 5 degrees. Not sure if this is built in to the cage or not. I don't use the cages.
     
  26. IRON MAIDEN
    Joined: May 28, 2010
    Posts: 517

    IRON MAIDEN
    Member

    I will pull the rear out from under my truck and check it out. It is good info to have so would be word checking. Guess I will need to pull the front and rear springs. I can see the rears won't be an issue, but can you take them out without removing the cage? As for the front, will I need a spring compressor? Or can the bottom plate just be removed? I'm assuming it's under serious load and that might not be a smooth idea ; )
     
  27. Slag Kustom
    Joined: May 10, 2004
    Posts: 4,312

    Slag Kustom
    Member

    to take out the front spring get some grade 8 threaded rod about a foot long and replace 4 of the spring plate bolts with it. put nuts on rod and take out other bolts. loosen nuts to slowly lower the spring plate. at the jag shop i worked for saw way to many springs almost hurt someone.
     
  28. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,730

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    awesome tech right there.... better than my floor jack approach...
     
  29. Slag Kustom
    Joined: May 10, 2004
    Posts: 4,312

    Slag Kustom
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    if it is mounted in a car you can use the threaded rod and a floor jack with a chain under the jack and over the frame. then just lower the jack slowly
     
  30. toddc
    Joined: Nov 25, 2007
    Posts: 976

    toddc
    Member


    Or you can get a piece of 3/4 threaded rod and put it through the middle of the spring. Either way is safe.

    Slag's way would be much easier for putting the spring back in though :)
     
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