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Which is more cost effective: Buy a crate motor or rebuild a 283

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tugmaster, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    That is a consideration ...:)

    Consider WHO is selling engines in this thread and has no financial interest in this.

    Not everyone wants a to build a engine ( or cannot :( )
    Not everyone wants a engine with a bunch of used stuff in it.

    Different budgets require different solutions :D :D
     
  2. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca


    It's not my stuff and this thread isn't about my motors. You posted about the quality of the parts in a master kit but did not list one part by name that you used in your rebuild, but ARP, which is not in any crate motor. You said you laid out the facts but laid out nothing. If a person wants all new valve train parts in a rebuild, that's not a big expense. All new valves, new springs, pushrods, rockers = $150 xtra.
    Parts used in the rebuilding industry are as good or better than parts used by any new motor manufacturer.
    Take the time to list all the parts manufacturers used in the GM motor for all here to see. And where is the list of parts you used in your motor ?
    You now say you won't use Badger or Silvolite but use crate motors with Sterling = Federal Moguls made in India.
    Post some facts or put on your parachute and bail out of this thread.

    I have to add this
    I love crate motors as this gives me a continuous supply of rebuildable chevy motors, because as they die the dealer drops them off at my door. I do realize that after I rebuild them they will never be as good as another new crate motor because now they have too many used parts.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
  3. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca

    OK I need one
    Along as it doesn't look gay
     
  4. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    No parachute for me ... :)
    I did not see you list all the parts in the 275 rebuild kit ... either :eek:

    __________________


    Now really ?? :confused:
    I see where you are in LA ... a large area and there are most likely a larger number of crate engines sold there than my rural sothern area ... but just how many new crate engine have problems ???

    To ALL other readers of this thread ...

    How many crate engine have you known/heard about/ had experience with
    to be bad ??

    __________________

    I did have a crate 454/450 HP LS-6 engine go bad ... 40 years ago.
    Back then ... the dealer got the engine back and destroyed the engine.
    That was GM's policy at the time. The part manager was a friend and he could not even save the engine.

    Maybe things are different now.

    .
     
  5. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    I went through the same thing with my '61 Suburban, and bought the 290hp crate engine from GM.
    You'll need an intake, carb, fuel pump, water pump, thermostat and all those gaskets for both engines, so take that off the table. You'll also probably need a distributor for the 283, so again, you'll need that for both.

    That leaves construction of the long block.
    If you can:
    Have the block hot-tanked and bored
    Turn the crank
    Buy rod, main and cam bearings
    Buy freeze plugs and oil galley plugs
    Buy pistons
    Buy rings
    Have the rods magnafluxed and rebuilt, including new fasteners
    Buy an oil pump and pick-up
    Buy a timing chain
    Buy a new cam and lifters
    Have the heads magnafluxed
    Have a valve-job done
    Buy new valves
    Buy new spring
    Buy new pushrods
    Buy new seals
    Have new guides installed
    Buy a gasket set
    And fix anything else like busted rocker studs, stripped threads, bent or hole-poked oil pan or timing chain cover, and then have it all put together for less than $1500....


    You'll still make less power than a 350.

    But chances are pretty good you won't be able to have all the block and head prep done, and buy that whole list of parts, for $1500. Let alone have someone assemble it all for you.

    -Brad
     
  6. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    The one I have with an Edelbrock C3B, open-element air cleaner, chrome 327 valve covers, rams horn manifolds and 37,000 miles in 3 years says you can pucker up and kiss the fattest part of its ass.

    Choosing the smallest cubic inches with the least amount of power because "it's cool" has NEVER been what hot rodding is about.

    Making the most power you can afford, and driving the damn thing, is what hot rodding is about.

    -Brad
     
  7. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    Advice is free, Talk is cheap and crate motors (290 hp) cost more than $1500 in the LA Chevrolet dealerships. Used SBC's in good running shape can be had for $500 or less. The choice is up to you, building a motor is part of being a do it yourself home builder. The thumping of the heart when you first start the motor after building it yourself is "Priceless". My 2 cents.
     
  8. bones35
    Joined: Jan 1, 2004
    Posts: 382

    bones35
    Member

    I spent $1,350.00 at the machine shop and assembled my self. full rebuild machine work.
     
  9. PunkAssGearhead88
    Joined: Jul 9, 2006
    Posts: 1,788

    PunkAssGearhead88
    Member
    from So Cal

    Hey Vandy,
    Don't mean to hi-jack the thread but, since your prices not only seem reasonable, but since your also local, do you mind giving me some contact info? I'd like to keep you in mind for any future rebuilds. You can PM me if you'd like.
     
  10. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca

    Well Brad
    I read a lot of car magazines & it seems a lot of people are way off your track, but me however that's a different story. my daily driver is a 67 Scout, I've had for 30 years. It's power comes from a 460 Ford backed with a ZF 5 speed. Any time you want to try that 350 crate motor out against it, I'm game. The tail lights are round you will see them when I am driving away.Yes I stuffed it with a big cam Yes I ported the heads, hi compression pistons, Big headers, Holley carb. I even ported the aluminum intake. If I put the most power I could afford in it, I could use one of the 3 - 545 cube blown 460's with TFS-A heads that are in my garage in it. The OP asked about a 283 not me, I didn't put him down for asking, and I think he's on the right track for what he wants- not what you think hot rodding is. Ryan - yes the guy whose board you are using prefers to run a Flathead, I'm pretty sure he could afford a bigger and faster motor
     
  11. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca

    Hi larry
    I buy master kits from many sources, and with the exception of King bearings (Israel), and adding Mexico to your list.I would say yes. I and most motor builders don't just build SBC's and the parts sometimes very as to who is in production of the part needed. Anytime someone asks me "whose parts are you using" I answer that I will use whatever part makers product they prefer. No if's or any bull, If a part is specified by a customer he gets it. Whats really funny is that most just don't ask and don't care as they wouldn't know who's part is what. They do care that it runs good & so do I, as repeat customers & referrals are gold.
    Please understand My shop a closed shop, I do not offer machine services or sell any parts. I build crate motors for hot rods only. And to the Hamb member that stopped in today, You didn't see that 528 BBF boat motor that dynoed at 736 HP on pump gas, It wasn't there.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2011
  12. B.A.KING
    Joined: Apr 6, 2005
    Posts: 4,039

    B.A.KING
    Member

    no dog in this hunt,and opinions are like buttholes everybody has one. but i was wondering because vandy ,you seem to have a good thing there and fairly good named brand parts. you may have posted it and i didn't see it.but what kind of warrenty do you have on a base 350 c.i? just curious. CARRY ON MEN. popcorn is poppin
     
  13. maniac
    Joined: Jul 11, 2005
    Posts: 539

    maniac
    Member




    I'd hafta agree.......:cool:
     
  14. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    Sorry, I guess I should have said "Choosing to spend more money on a 283 rather than buying a cheaper, more powerful 350 that looks externally EXACTLY like a 283, just so you can say "I've got a 283 and spent more money on it than a crate 350, but hey man, IT'S TRAD!" is stupid.
    The guy asked for an opinion: cost and inexperience were factors, as was the intended use: "A cruiser."

    I'll stand by what I wrote.


    -Brad
     
  15. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca

    So as a Chevy guy you think that a 283 looks exactly like a 350 crate motor. I will agree that a 350 could be disguised to look similar but at minimum it would require a change of heads to at least a set of Power Pac's. I would have to say that I get requests all the time to do this very thing, most often using Camel humps for the 327 look. This disguise is not to try to fool a Chevy guy, but to fool a fool who thinks he's a Chevy guy. Please don't be offended.
     
  16. pug man
    Joined: Apr 9, 2007
    Posts: 1,010

    pug man
    Member
    from louisiana

    I am sold on Vandy. Sounds like he really knows what he speaks. When i get ready for a SBC I will be looking you up Mr. Vandy......thanks for all the great info......
     
  17. Brad54
    Joined: Apr 15, 2004
    Posts: 6,021

    Brad54
    Member
    from Atl Ga

    Yeah yeah... casting marks on the front of the heads, versus accessory bolt holes... which the OP will really appreciate if he runs an alternator, power steering pump or A/C.
    Oh, wait... those aren't Trad either. Never mind.
    If I cared that much, it'd take 30 minutes with a die-grinder and some JB Weld, and the "disguise" would "fool a Chevy Guy."

    It's a cruiser. And for what he asked, I'll still stand by my statements.
    Had he said he wanted to build a period-correct car, my suggestion probably would have been different.

    -Brad
     
  18. carcass
    Joined: Jul 22, 2010
    Posts: 14

    carcass
    Member
    from seattle

    Im looking into rebuild versus crate for my 35 and had heard rumors about GM crate motors being made out of country. That is just a sad state of affairs. I realize that offshore products are cheaper and maybe we can put together a couple more cars for less. But if youre going for period correct, then you should make damn sure how your grandfather would feel about parts from overseas in his Chevrolet or Ford!!!!! But if fiberglass were my game I guess I wouldnt mind putting a foreign motor in it. As for me I'm gonna cling to the last bit of America left. And yes I know that it would be near impossible to put on shoes and socks and walk out the door without overseas stuff, but come on! Traditional rodders with a oh well attitude?

    Aside from that i'm sure the mexican GM motors are good, but so are Hondas and you can bet youre ass I aint gonna be buying one of those soon. A dude at work just touted his new Kia, and said its "the new sorento! the first Kia to be made in the U.S." I said yah, then I could do a couple other things that suck.

    Dont have the answers, and I'm sure parts for my motor will have to be made overseas, but I'm gonna try my best to stay Red White and Blue.

    And what is up with the fruity emotocons/avatar face thingies
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2011
  19. hemibird43
    Joined: May 3, 2009
    Posts: 78

    hemibird43
    Member

    i love my 283, but to do it over again, i would buy a 290 horse 350, sounds great, and very dependable. and for around 2k cant beat it for the $$
     
  20. Ebert
    Joined: Feb 13, 2006
    Posts: 1,920

    Ebert
    Member

    This makes sense to me!!!
     

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