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Which is more cost effective: Buy a crate motor or rebuild a 283

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Tugmaster, Jan 23, 2011.

  1. Thanks for all the great responses. No I have never rebuilt a motor before, but I can follow directions in a book, I can read a dial indicator and a venner (sp) caliper so I know I can do it. There is alot of good books on the subject. On my 50 Chevy build I did EVERYTHING myself. It was a great satisfaction to do it my self.
    Like everyone. I live and operate within a budget. If I can do it for close to the same price I will do the 283.
    On thing for sure as soon as I am done with this post I am sending Vandy a pm about one of his 283'S!!! Todd

    I forgot to mention the motor will be going in a 38 Chevy coupe. A fairly light car.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2011
  2. Hdonlybob
    Joined: Feb 1, 2005
    Posts: 4,115

    Hdonlybob
    Member

    All good points above.
    One thing to me is important......Old School (to me anyway)
    I just dropped a rebuilt 283/4 speed into my '63 Biscayne project. It is beefed up a bit, and a lot of folks said 3fty 3fty 3fty........but everyone around here runs them, and I wanted a 283....so I have one.:cool:
    Hope to have it fired up in a week or so, but I like it, and that is what is important to me......total cost would have been about the same.....
    You are driving it, so go for what you like, and want..
    Good luck, and let us know what you do !!
    Cheers,
    Bob
     
  3. 94hoghead
    Joined: Jun 1, 2007
    Posts: 1,289

    94hoghead
    Member

    Crate motor....Warranty!
     
  4. Not gonna place my opinion here, but for engine parts, you CANNOT beat the prices from Competition Products and Northern Auto Parts. It is worth your time to check out their engine kit deals.


    Sent from my iPhone 4 using TJJ
     
  5. fab32
    Joined: May 14, 2002
    Posts: 13,985

    fab32
    Member Emeritus

    Your first question was about cost effectiveness. Apples to apples the crate motor will win EVERY time. No way can "one at a time" beat mass produced in any situation when the question is "cost affective". Quality, personal involvement, etc. puts another dimension into the conversation.

    Frank
     
  6. 56 Frame Dragger
    Joined: Jan 4, 2011
    Posts: 1,212

    56 Frame Dragger
    Member

    I put a crate motor in my 56 had it on the road in two days with a warranty.
    you can't go wrong
     
  7. No Cents
    Joined: Feb 28, 2009
    Posts: 335

    No Cents
    Member

    Ditto on Competition Products. I have bought from them many times, GREAT prices and so far (Knock on wood) no problems.
     
  8. In 1995 or so I was building my 55 Chevy Wagon, the 283 was going south.

    I called up GM High Performance after reading about their crate motors. They put me on to a guy that was putting a 350/700R$ combo in a 55 Chevy Coupe for the GM High Performance booth at the SEMA show.

    He convinced me that was the way to go...and I went there, still running great.


    www.highspeedmotorsports.com
     
  9. pdq67
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 787

    pdq67
    Member

    Check me on this, but I want to say that an early to mid '60's "round bottom" 283 will bore to .155" just like the 302 and 327 blocks will bore to .030" over.

    But sonic check so that you know for sure.

    I'm looking at two ways to build my next junk engine and they are as follow's, (depending on availability of cheap pistons because that's all I need!).

    1. a 292"er with flat-tops with shims and cut to 50 or so cc -601 heads.

    2. a 301"er with stock domed and shims and my good set of stock big valve -291 or my stock big valve -461 heads.

    Cam will be a 280/246, 108/108, .498" gross lift and hot-lashed .030" on both sides AND with 1.6 rockers, the net lift will be .500". Along with Z-28, (aka, -142), springs.

    A new still in the box Holley 300-36 along with a 3310-2 750 tuned carb and a cheap set of 4-tube, long tube headers!

    Hell, I might not even balance it because my last one wasn't!!!

    pdq67

    PS., and I might even install a 6.25" SJ rod/6.00" rod .030" overbore 350 piston conbination in her if my block will sonic check to .155" overbore?
     
  10. I talked to VANDY today. REAL nice guy. I got a good feeling. I will be going wit one of his motors once I figure out shipping. Todd
     
  11. Mr48chev
    Joined: Dec 28, 2007
    Posts: 33,861

    Mr48chev
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    That's probably the best way to do this one if you want to have a completely fresh engine for a competitive price.

    As usual the other guys prices are all over the place but a lot of that has to do with

    The going rates for quality machine work varies greatly from area to area. What may cost me 60.00 an hour may cost a guy 800 miles away 110 an hour for equal work while another guy in another area may be able to walk in and get it done for 40.00. That isn't a difference in quality but a difference in the going rate for the area.

    Then we get to parts. Vandy and some of the rest may have a lot better buying power than some of the guys who only build and engine every couple of years or so.

    Plus some guys can't seem to find a deal on anything to save their ass and always end up paying full list price on everything.

    Northern Auto Parts was mentioned earlier
    The baseline master rebuild kit from them for a 283 is 324.99 then you start adding on the extras. http://www.northernautoparts.com/ProductModelDetail.cfm?ProductModelId=707
    I've used a lot of their kits in the past and have 70K+ on a 350 with one of their rering kits in my daily now. But you still have to add the price of machine work, doing the heads for unleaded and most likely new valves and springs to that total.
    You can buy one of the how to rebuild your small block chevy books on Amazon http://www.amazon.com/How-Rebuild-Y...0298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295998114&sr=8-1
    Or at the local book store or a lot of parts houses. I'd have to dig but I used to use one version or the other when I was teaching the engine rebuilding section of my auto mechanics class to form my lesson plans.

    Do a little homework and price things out and see where you stand.

    The external pieces, such as Intake, carb, exhaust, fuel pump, water pump, pulleys, belts, hoses, distributor or tune up pieces will be the same for either a crate motor or one you do yourself.

    And if you do decide to do it yourself there is always the HAMB helpdesk with several people who will do their level best to give you straight forward and honest no nonsense answers to each and every question no matter how many times we have answered them before.
     
  12. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

  13. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    I think the SA Design books are awesome. Since there's a JEGS down the street from where I'm at in ohio I've bought 8 of the suckers, I love them.
     
  14. hotrod_32
    Joined: Mar 8, 2006
    Posts: 496

    hotrod_32
    Member

    Crate motor...
     
  15. patina steve
    Joined: Oct 3, 2006
    Posts: 248

    patina steve
    Member


    I find it interesting how cheap the parts are for an engine rebuild kit as mentioned $ 275.00, on my 283 rebuild I had one questionable rocker,do you think I could find one made in America, Chevrolet does not sell them any more NAPA Summit and Jegs sell them all made in China, I needed a couple of push rods same thing most of them listed in the catalogs of the parts warehouses are made overseas. It is my understanding that all these parts are made by the same manufactures overseas and all the parts warehouses get there parts from the same sources and just market the parts. So my question is how good are the parts in a $ 275.00 rebuild kit vs. a crate motor made in Mexico.

    I sure wish I could buy a Chevy rocker for a small block Chevy engine, not a overseas repo !
     
  16. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    Quality parts cost $$$ ...
    when I rebuilt the 283 that I had in my 40 Ford coupe, I used new rockers and push rods from the Chevrolet dealer. They were at least 10 yeas old ... ( but still NOS ) :) Same for the pistons. I had them from years ago ( but NOS ). I did buy a new Duntov 097 and lifters. New springs, keepers and retainers also. Added a set of new Poly*Loks. The only used parts in my 283 were the block, head castings, crankshaft and rods. The rods were resized and had ARP rod bolts. The head bolts were also ARP. The timing chain was Cloyes double roller. The oil pump was a new Mellings. All the bearings were TRW ... and had Grant rings. The heads were decked ... the block bored with head plates and the entire assembly balanced ( machine costs were in the $350 range ) the heads had new hardened valve seats installed and new valves.

    I worked as a machinist for a few years so I have ALL the precision measuring equipment and know HOW to use it. My machine shop guy knows this and knows I double and triple check behind him. :) The engine went together perfectly ... and cranked with about 2 or 3 turns of the crankshaft ... after I had primed the oiling system.

    IMHO,
    there is no way to compare the new parts in a $275 rebuild kit to the parts I installed. My pistons and pins cost more than that :eek:

    That said ... a engine can be redone for far less ... BUT ... you use a LOT of used valve train parts and other stuff.

    The new GM crate engine has ALL NEW parts for not a lot of money more. Plus the local Chevy dealer does not charge SHIPPING.

    Not knocking anyones engines ... just trying to lay all the facts out for consideration. :cool:
     
  17. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca

    Hey Steve
    Yes you can buy the rocker from Chevy
    All the new crate motors Chevy sells now use the self align rockers. It is a over the counter part and will drop on any early model motor. The dealers and knowledgeable mechanics have been using that rocker to fix early motors with worn out pushrod guides in the head (the slot becomes egg shaped) On the new crate motors the holes are just bored round with out the slot and you must use them. Buy a set or just one.
    Van
     
  18. Vandy
    Joined: Nov 15, 2009
    Posts: 368

    Vandy
    Member
    from L.A. Ca


    Before you insinuate that a master kit has inferior parts, why don't you check the two suppliers that are the largest motor parts kit suppliers in the world. If you can find one thing to single out I would be very surprised. Try Engine Tec and EPW (engine parts warehouse) They are on line. As for pistons my kits have Silvolite - and are a major OEM supplier and have been making pistons before you were born. As for your crate motor - I buy a ton of them from the Chevy dealer who delivers their return warranty motors to my door. I know every part inside & I gota tell ya it an't good news for you. You should know that their pistons - Federal mogul are now made in INDA. Know what you are talking about before spewing bullshit.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2011
  19. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,875

    Larry T
    Member



    Are all the parts in your $275.00 rebuild kit made in USA/Canada?
    Larry T
     
  20. Deuce Roadster
    Joined: Sep 8, 2002
    Posts: 9,519

    Deuce Roadster
    Member Emeritus

    I did not say your stuff was inferior ... I just said yours has a LOT of used parts. Does yours have new rockers, push rods and and ALL NEW valvetrain ?? How about new camshaft and lifters ? And you did not say that all of the parts in your 275 dollars kit came from the US of A either. Silvolite ... does not make the pistons I put in my rebuilds. ;)

    Why would I pay 900 dollars for a used engine with some new stuff ( 275 dollars worth ) when I can buy a NEW engine ( everything new ) for 600 dollars more ??

    The original poster has already said he is going to buy one of your engines. That's OK and good by me. IF he cannot build his own engine ... your engines may be a good choice for him :) I do really hope everything turns out great. But I will not be buying a engine with a 275 rebuild kit in it. I will either buy a GM crate engine or build one myself ... with the good stuff I select ... and Badger and Silvolite will not be on my parts list.

    My friends and I have bought / and or / installed over 2 dozen Chevrolet crate engine without one single failure.

    Have a nice day ... :D :D

    .
     
  21. Larry T
    Joined: Nov 24, 2004
    Posts: 7,875

    Larry T
    Member

    Just to muddy the waters a little more, Silvolite and Keith Black pistons are made by the same company.
    Larry T
     
  22. A lot depends on how much rebuilding the 283 needs, and what your machine shop charges you for their end of the bargain.

    On a 283 I would say that normally it is going to cost you about the same minimum. I did a 283 a couple of years ago new pistons, camshaft, and rods sized with crank turned .010. Total cost with my time was about 1300.00. But I normally get a pretty good discount on my parts.

    I would doubt that you could build the 283 for less than the cost of the crate motor and you don't get a warranty so that's the con.

    On the pros side, you get a more period correct motor in your period correct rod, you know what's in it because you out it in there and the satisfaction of building your own mill.

    I'm real big on building your own so I'm probably not the correct person to ask but if it were mine I would build it myself.

     
  23. 40Standard
    Joined: Jul 30, 2005
    Posts: 5,963

    40Standard
    Member
    from Indy

    I would have to build the 283 but a crate motor is tempting
     
  24. chaos10meter
    Joined: Feb 21, 2007
    Posts: 2,191

    chaos10meter
    Member
    from PA.

    "Know what you are talking about before spewing bullshit."

    Me thinks Vandy needs a hug.<!-- / message --><!-- edit note -->
     
  25. Crate motors and gold chainers have given the SBC its bad rep. I don't have anything against them they are a good deal for someone who either doesn't have the time or the know how to build one from scratch. They are handy if you shell a motor on Tuesday afternoon and need to be at work Wednesday morning, but if its your rod my thoughts are take the extra time and do it yourself.

    If I shelled the mill in my parts hauler today I may have a crate motor in it by Saturday. Just handy, but my parts hauler isn't my rod.
     
  26. ironhead68
    Joined: Feb 11, 2007
    Posts: 104

    ironhead68
    Member

    ditto!
     
  27. Hot_Rod_Joe
    Joined: Sep 17, 2007
    Posts: 273

    Hot_Rod_Joe
    Member

    Yep, I got one for sale.
     
  28. Johnny1290
    Joined: Apr 20, 2006
    Posts: 2,834

    Johnny1290
    Member

    I get it , time is money and not evrybody has the inclination to build their own engine. The one in my car right now is a rebuilder motor a friend of mine sold me. I didn't have a garage and he let me use his driveway to do the swap, so it was the only way to go for me.

    No shame in the game. Maybe next time he 'll build his own. That's my plan, I'm gathering parts for another engine, now that I have a garage, and I can take my time with it. Planning and gathering the bits and pieces is a lot of the fun for me. gives me something to think about while I'm working in the coal mine ;-)

    I guess I thought the cheaper GM crate engines were heche in mexico? But they use all USA parts? the block/valvetrain/rotating assembly, all made in USA?

    I don't have a dog in this hunt, I'm just trying to get the facts straight in my head. Not that it's a big deal, a crate motor is so far out of my budget it's just academic LOL :D

    edit:
    yeah somewhere along the line it became a law to put a ZZ something or other crate motor in your street rod. I'm sure they're probably great engines, but at least in my mind they got lumped in with the billet crowd and it's kinda guilt by association.
     
  29. maniac
    Joined: Jul 11, 2005
    Posts: 539

    maniac
    Member




    And the outward appearance of either the 350 crate motor or the 283 is........?
     

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