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mothballs in gas for higher octane?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Blown 61, Jun 12, 2011.

  1. carcrazyjohn
    Joined: Apr 16, 2008
    Posts: 4,843

    carcrazyjohn
    Member
    from trevose pa

    Wheres myth busters when you need them ......................
     
  2. NumbNutz
    Joined: Mar 11, 2009
    Posts: 319

    NumbNutz
    Member

    Make sure to use the larger moths. If there balls are too small they will plug up jets and injectors.
    Sorry, I couldn't resist. Interesting thread though.
     
  3. 1971BB427
    Joined: Mar 6, 2010
    Posts: 8,719

    1971BB427
    Member
    from Oregon

    It's actually not moth balls, but butterfly balls. I don't know how these stories get so mixed up? :)
     
  4. Tom S. in Tn.
    Joined: Jan 16, 2011
    Posts: 1,108

    Tom S. in Tn.
    Member

     
  5. Hey I've eaten animal testicles before. But I am sure that it would take a lot of moths to make a good sandwich. :D

    I have heard of people using mothballs for an octain boost. I asked my chemisrty tracher about it a couple of year back, he said it was not the chemical that the mothballs are made of but the reaction that it made with the gasoline that would make a vehicle run better. Then he told me to resaerch the chemical reacion. But alas I am lazy so I can't give you an answer on the reaction.

    tgis is what an old timer told me. he said if you do it you don't just domp the moth balls in the tank they will gum stuff up, he said to take a pair of panties and put the oth balls in them then stick them in the tank. When the moth balls disolve they panites will keep all the crap out of your fuel.

    I actually have better idea than that, but it is an entirely different subject.

    Here is something to think about when wondering if it will work. Nitrous oxide doesn't burn, but it promotes combustion. I doubt that the moth balls actually raise your octain it just makes your engine use your fuel more efficiently. It may not work at all without the lead.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
  6. sololobo
    Joined: Aug 23, 2006
    Posts: 8,378

    sololobo
    Member

    Maybe some 104 octane boost would be safer. Old wives tale for sure. The thread was good for some laughs anyway. ~sololobo~
     
  7. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    I think you won't like the results of mothballs in the tank BUT; all of you are invited to participate in the Testicle Festival held in Olean, Missouri annually. Last year's was the last weekend in May, this years should be coming up. And if you don't believe me, Google it!

    As far as increased octane is concerned: unless you are a chemist, racing fuel and mix as needed is the cheapest way to go. Some of those chemicals can be hazardous to your health!

    Jon.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
  8. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    -----------------------
    Probably a 'back woods, home-brew' way
    of extending gasoline which was rationed
    and hard to come by. Kerosene, besides
    having almost no knock resistance, is, by
    itself also not volatile enough to vaporize
    and work in a normal carburetor. But adding
    some highly volatile naphthalene to a mix of
    gasoline and kerosene would probably allow
    the engine to run - after a fashion at least
    - on a gasoline/kerosene blend. It might
    marginally work in a pinch, in a low hp and
    relatively slow turning, sub-5 to 1 compression,
    cast iron piston - 1920's or early-30's vintage
    engine, but even then, it wouldn't be very
    good.

    Mart3406
    ==================
     
  9. carbking
    Joined: Dec 20, 2008
    Posts: 3,715

    carbking
    Member

    Lots of tractors DID run on kerosene. Some of the carburetors are quite interesting (at least to me). Many of the carburetors designed for kerosene burning engines had two bowls (one for gasoline, one for kerosene), one on either side of the carburetor throat. Each bowl had its own fuel valve and float. The engine was started on gasoline, and allowed to warm; then switched over to kerosene. These engines would have massive preheaters around the manifold to vaporize the fuel after the engine warmed. Octane of kerosene (memory, sometimes faulty) is about 40 or so.

    Later tractors had two tanks, but a single bowl carburetor. The same general principal, but one switched tanks rather than carburetor bowls. Woe to the farm hand who killed the engine on kerosene without first switching back to gasoline.

    Here is a link to an original drawing that we digitally restored:

    http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Kingston_1_clean.JPG

    Jon.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
  10. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    I didn't mean to imply that straight kerosene
    couldn't be vaporized by a carburetor.- just
    not by regular automobile-type carburetor
    designed for gasoline. Kerosene was used
    as a fuel in a lot of early spark-ignition engines.
    particularly on tractors and stationary engines,
    but to carburete and vaporize the fuel, the
    carburetors had to use an outside source of
    heat - usually from the engine's exhaust system
    - to vaporize the fuel.

    Here's some cutaway pictures and a description
    of the unique Secor-Higgens carburetor used on
    Rumely 'Oil Pull' tractors from the early 1900's
    to the late 1920's that used a combination of
    direct exhaust heat and exhaust-heated water,
    mixed with the fuel and flashed into steam, to
    vaporize the kerosene and then homogenize
    and cool the mixture in order to control
    detonation caused by the inherent low-octane
    of kerosene. Pretty slick and very high-tech for
    neatly a 100 years ago! (And all without even
    one single mothball required! [GRIN!] :D:D<grin>)

    Mart3406
    -----------------
    http://www.rustyiron.com/rumely/secor.html


    Secor - Higgins
    Kerosene Carburetor
    As found on Model B, E & F Oilpull Tractors

    <table align="center"> <tbody><tr> <td> [​IMG] </td> </tr></tbody></table> <table style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: bold; text-align: justify;" width="80%" align="center" cellspacing="10"> <tbody><tr> <td> The fuel supply system of the Rumely Oilpull tractors is arranged so that kerosene, distillate and other low grade oils may be burned successfully. This, the Secor system, so named after its inventor, does not involve specially designed engines as any motor intended for operation on gasoline can be used successfully with kerosene if fitted with a Secor-Higgins carburetor. This is not a new system, by any means, because it was developed over fourteen years ago and has received practical application in thousands of power plants used for agricultural purposes during this period. The following matter, reproduced from the Scientific American Supplement, clearly outlines the essential features of the Secor system and also of the vaporizer used in connection with it:
    </td> <td align="center"> [​IMG] </td></tr> </tbody></table> <table style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: bold; text-align: justify;" width="80%" align="center" cellspacing="10"> <tbody><tr><td> Stated in brief terms, the system covers: (1) An automatic variation in the quantity of fuel mixture in accordance with the slightest variation in speed and load; (2) A degree of compression dependent upon the quantity of the mixture inhaled; (3) A correct proportioning of the mixture under all conditions, involving relatively weaker mixtures for higher compressions; (4) A temperature of combustion exactly adapted to the quality of fuel used and the compression; (5) Automatic control of the internal temperature through the admission of water as part of the fuel mixture; (6) Thorough and uniform mixture of fuel, water and air charge by mechanical means and without the application of additional heat; (7) Automatic variation in the time of firing in response to variations in speed and power; (8) Means for changing the limits of speed within which all factors are simultaneously controlled; (9) And means for starting on a limited supply of volatile fuel, all of which factors are vital to the control of internal heat, the transformation of heat into power and power production. The adaptability of the system described to the lower grade oils is secured through its providing a co-ordination of all factors at all times, this being considered necessary owing to the more difficult vaporization and combination of less volatile oils. The throttling governor, taking a different quantity of fuel mixtures for each cycle as the load varies, naturally produces a varying compression within the cylinder. It is well known that at higher compression leaner fuel mixtures may be, and should be used, and vice versa. One great factor in the success of the system is that through the mechanism of the special carburetor, the propertions of fuel, air and water are automatically varied in relation to each other as the comresssion changes. By this means the conditions within the cylinder, whether the engine is run at heavy load or light, are constant so far as they affect the completeness of combustion. Complete combustion eliminates the deposit of carbon which has been regarded as an insurmountable objection to the use of heavy fuels, and the unified automatic control results in the securing of splendid regulation.
    The automatic control of the quantity of water is an original feature of the system, and is advantageous for several reasons. In the first place it makes for clean combustion by controlling the temperature of vaporization and combustion so that there is practically no cracking of the low-grade oil with its attendant carbon deposit. The water allows the use of higher compression, consequently greater power from the same bore, stroke and speed. The effect of the water in producing a slower-burning mixture is seen in a lower explosion pressure and a flatter indicator card. This results in as high a mean effective pressure as is found in gasoline engines of similar proportions, without the strain and instability produced by a violent initial shock. There is further, undoubtedly, a dissociation of water into nascent hydrogen and oxygen. The latter, being much more active than the diluted oxygen of the atmosphere, has naturally a greater affinity for any free carbon that may have been deposited at the moment of explosion. The hydrogen set free probably burns with the oxygen of the air as the temperature falls toward the end of the stroke, but it is doubtful whether enough steam is thus formed to exert any considerable expansive effect upon the piston. The process does, however, effectively scour the cylinder. The explosion is converted into a long, steady push instead of a short, sharp blow, and the water apparently gives an increase of power of at least 15 per cent over a similar engine without it.
    </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: bold; text-align: justify;" width="80%" align="center" cellspacing="10"> <tbody><tr> <td align="center"> [​IMG] </td><td> The water is not only controlled as to amount, but is brought into play automatically. As the load increases, the throttle opens and more air is sucked through the carburetor. Not until about half load is reached does the suction become strong enough to lift the water, hence it is not present to hinder ignition at light loads, nor to allow preignition at any time, being neither too heavy for ignition at heavy loads nor too light to control the temperature of vaporization.
    </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: bold; text-align: justify;" width="80%" align="center" cellspacing="10"> <tbody><tr> <td> Crankshaft, cam shaft, governor, magneto, carburetor, valves and piston act as a positively controlled unit in engines equipped with the new system, hence no one mechanical factor deserves to be set apart from the others in importance. However, the special carburetor, which makes possible the application of the new system, is of sufficient novelty to warrant special attention. A fly-ball governor, through a first-class lever and a link coupling, operates a sliding brass valve which is clearly shown in the the accompanying picture. The carburetor sits above the cylinders, with the short inlet manifold presenting little opportunity for the mixture to stratify before it is completely vaporized. It contains constant-level chambers for kerosene and water, an overflow being provided for each. It has also, for starting purposes, a chamber for gasoline which is filled by hand pump. This chamber, which holds about a pint, is connected by a siphon with the mixing chamber. Turning the engine over creates suction enough to draw upon the contents of this chamber, but a vent is provided so that if a start is not made immediately the siphon will not continue to act and drain the chamber.
    </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: bold; text-align: justify;" width="80%" align="center" cellspacing="10"> <tbody><tr> <td> This image shows the position of the valve plate at light load. Two air inlets are then open, providing a large ratio of admission to outlet area and thus greatly reducing the relative vacuum in the mixing chamber. As the load increases, the governor throws the sliding valve forward, increasing the area of the outlet to the cylinder, increasing the air inlet in the middle, and decreasing or entirely closing the air opening at the right. Thus the ratio of admission to outlet area decreases, the relative vacuum becomes greater, and more fuel in quantity, though not in proportion, is picked up by the incoming air and carried to the cylinder.
    </td> <td align="center"> [​IMG] </td></tr> </tbody></table> <table style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-weight: bold; text-align: justify;" width="80%" align="center" cellspacing="10"> <tbody><tr> <td> A sectional view from the side shows the arrangement of the kerosene and water needle valves, the overflow, etc. It will be noted that the water level is lower than the kerosene level. The suction therefore is not great enough, until the engine reaches about half load, to lift the water to the point where it can flow down the tube surrounding the needle valve. From half to full load, the ratio of water to fuel increases rapidly until the amounts of fuel and water used are practically equal. The carburetor is so designed that the fuel needle-valve should be adjusted at the full-load position, when the plate is farthest to the right. This order of procedure is important, since at this position the adjustable plate has no effect upon the area of the air inlet openings. The adjustment of the air should be made at the "no-load" position and after once made, need never be changed, unless the engine enters a very different altitude. This adjustable plate allows each carburetor to be adjusted to the engine it is to serve, hence the slight variatoins in manufacturing are fully taken care of. The sliding plate is the only moving part in the carburetor, and that is positively controlled. There are no springs, floats or check valves. the device is simple, the parts are large and there is no possibility of the device getting out of order of failing to supply a correctly proportioned mixture as long as the pumps supplying fuel and water are functioning properly and the fuel and water containers are kept full.
    </td> </tr> </tbody></table> <table style="font-family: 'Bookman Old Style'; font-size: xx-small;" width="50%" align="center" cellspacing="10"> <tbody><tr> <td>
    This passage is from "The Modern Gas Tractor,"
    by Victor W. Pagé, ©1914

    </td> </tr> </tbody></table> [​IMG]
    ================================
    </grin>
     
  11. Another speed secret released to the public...........
     
  12. mart3406
    Joined: May 31, 2009
    Posts: 3,055

    mart3406
    Member
    from Canada

    ----------
    Uh...which one...mothballs, kerosene,
    or 'Secor-Higgens' carburetors...or
    all three??!!:eek::eek::D

    Mart3406
    ======================
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2011
  13. japar
    Joined: Jun 30, 2007
    Posts: 264

    japar
    Member
    from Seekonk Ma

    I wouldn't make fun of this moth ball thing, but on a side note I have been known to have a heavy foot and with gas at $4 a gallon I was reading a thread on hipermileage thats where I read about about putting an egg under your gas pedal to get better mileage so I tried it and yes the egg broke and made a mess, few days later a realy bad smell occured . Was trying all sorts of tricks to get rid of the smell with little or no luck. Then on the way home last month from the market the friggin gas pedal stuck to the floor because the egg yoke turned into this glue like crap. Long story short I almost wreak the car and get killed. Having just built a cedar closet for the wife I just happen to have purchased a box of moth balls at the market to put in her new cedar closet, so I was able to free the stuck gas pedal and stuck a handful of mothballs under the gas pedel and was able to make it home. The next day on the way to work I noticed the egg smell was gone the car seamed to have a slight loss in power and there was a wiff of mothball smell in the air but that didn't seam to bother me as much as the egg smell . The funny thing is I swear I have almost doubled my fuel mileage in the last month.
     
  14. Retro Jim
    Joined: May 27, 2007
    Posts: 3,854

    Retro Jim
    Member

    Now I have heard it all !

    Retro Jim
     
  15. firingorder1
    Joined: Dec 15, 2006
    Posts: 2,147

    firingorder1
    Member

    Put some in your tank and tell us how it worked.
     
  16. Rusty O'Toole
    Joined: Sep 17, 2006
    Posts: 9,657

    Rusty O'Toole
    Member

    I first heard this story at the time of the first gas crisis in the seventies. All the oil company experts pooh poohed it and debunked it as a myth. Then a few years later I noticed when I filled my car with hi test the gas had a definite whiff of moth balls on top of the usual gas odor.
     
  17. dvzdeathtrap
    Joined: Nov 30, 2010
    Posts: 125

    dvzdeathtrap
    Member
    from austin, tx

    not moth balls, those metal cow balls that hang from the rear increase power. or at least give some the sensation they do...... -DVZ
     
  18. Kerrynzl
    Joined: Jun 20, 2010
    Posts: 2,906

    Kerrynzl
    Member

    If you want to play with petrochemistry try "Nitropropane" it mixes with gasoline
     

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