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Ford 300 Engine Build Performance Reccomendations

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by tlmartin84, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. Truckedup
    Joined: Jul 25, 2006
    Posts: 4,661

    Truckedup
    Member

    Didn't Ford use a 4 speed OD tranny based on the top loader 4 speed during that time?
     
  2. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    I'm not sure what year is started, but I suspect you are thinking of the aluminum case 4 speed +OD Mazda trans. Those had a non-granny first gear. There was a synchro issue with earlier ones. I had one that failed. When I went to the dealer and started listing off the parts I needed the counter guy stopped me, disappeared, and came back with a kit that had everything I needed, including synchros with heavier teeth. A smaller version of that same basic trans design was used in the MN-12 T-Birds, and possibly a few others. Those didn't have the synchro problem.
     
  3. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Yeah that's the mazda M50D R2. I had that transmission in my 2000 4.2 L V6. It had synch issues...... a rebuild kit fixed it. Is the bellhousing the same for the 4.2 and 300?
     
  4. Kenneth S
    Joined: Dec 15, 2007
    Posts: 1,527

    Kenneth S
    Member

    Ford did use a 3 speed with overdrive that looks exactly like a 4 speed toploader except for the bump on the right hand side of the case to clear the od gear.
    The 3.8, and 4.2 V6 use the same 6 bolt bellhousing as the small blocks, and 240-300 six.
     
  5. TimeWarpF100
    Joined: Nov 9, 2010
    Posts: 310

    TimeWarpF100
    Member

    Late 70's early 80's Granada with the 4spd was a cast iron case toploader but with 4th being overdrive. THey worked quite well.
     
  6. I have one in my roadster behind a 300, the only drawback is the long reach between 2nd and 3rd gear. Other than that It's good, with 3.00 gears and 28" tall tires I'm at 1800 at 65 MPH.
    I built the engine you originally described, it is a late model FI engine from a certain brown delivery truck we all see now and then. I left the compression ratio stock, used the Offy single plane 4V with a holly 410 CFM carb, a set of headman headers for a ford truck and a mild cam (I've lost the card and don't remember the grind). on road trips I tow a small trailer and weigh about 3K, get 20-25 MPG with good performance.
    <!-- / message -->
     
  7. mtkawboy
    Joined: Feb 12, 2007
    Posts: 1,213

    mtkawboy
    Member

    The 4 speed OD transmissions drive thru the cluster gear in 4th gear OD which causes premature bearing wear and is not the most efficient setup. The early ones had bronze bushings and the later needle bearings in the cluster gears. The steel cranks also came on F600 Ford trucks. Why anyone would buy a 6 cylinder F600 is beyond me but I actually had one in a bucket truck while working for a line contractor
     
  8. Even with the needle bearings in the cluster I ran into wear on that shaft when I rebuilt the transmission.
     
  9. FrozenMerc
    Joined: Sep 4, 2009
    Posts: 3,092

    FrozenMerc
    Member

    Actually Truckedup is referring to the Ford RUG 4 speed OD transmissions used in the late 70's and 80's. 4th gear was overdrive. The M5R2 is a 5 speed and for the most part replaced the RUG's for the 90's. The RUG's came in aluminum and cast iron case versions. The cast iron units being used in trucks and full size cars. They are decent transmissions, but there is a huge ratio jump from 3rd gear to OD 4th.

    The NP435 is a decent transmission - for a rock crawler. It is all cast iron, very heavy, and even can support a PTO. Typically it was found in F-250 and larger trucks. 1st is super deep, I had a NP435 in my '51 for a number of years, it was bullet proof, but I only ever used 1st in parades, and 4th was only 1:1.
     
  10. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    According to this info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazda_M5OD_transmission
    the trans is called M5OD. The "R" suffix indicated what version it is. My 89 F-150 w/300 six had one. According to the chart some vehicles had them sooner.
     
  11. I've been thinking about tossing the RUG and this would work great.
     

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  12. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    I'm sorry guys but that mazda 5spd is a turd.
     
  13. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    I had 218000m before a rebuild on my M50Rd2, slave cylinder finally blew so I had it rebuilt while it was out. It was a survey truck and got ragged....so I can't say nothing bad about them.
     
  14. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    And I've seen many mazda 5spds not even make it to 100,000 miles. I've never had a NP435 fail period. :D
     
  15. Beresford
    Joined: Aug 7, 2010
    Posts: 7

    Beresford

    Before you choose Clifford, do your homework about the reviews folks give them these days, regarding their quality control, and the better reports heard several years ago.
    Head-work, head-work, head-work with the big six.
    If you choose Offy - strongly consider the Dual-Port as opposed to the C series.
     
  16. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member


    I've ran both Offy intakes. I'd never run a DP. There's no need for split runners on a big 6. If you are going Offenhauser I'd go C-series.
     
  17. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    I've gotta get this thing built well enough to outrun a 4.6L mustang in a quarter. Guy at work has already started talking crap about a six going in it and how good his mustang is!

    So as far as looking for a 300 donor truck with EVERYTHING (Good tranny w/OD, AC, and Power Steering). Im looking at an early 80's with a RUG? If i go to an EFI head odds are it will have the M5R2.....

    Fordman, how much power were behind the ones that failed? Stock, or beefed up? Mine had the 4.2L so it wasn't throwing out any Incredible No.'s, I did have 33's on it though, and it got rocked hard in the snow and mud A TON. However we did have a whole fleet of them..... and not many problems, most problems were the synch rings wearing out.
     
  18. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    GOSH I wish cliffords didn't have the rep they do now. Everyone is complaining about them. I want a dual carb set up awefully bad.
     
  19. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    I guess I could put a T5 behind it but thats more dough when I'm trying to buy a WHOLE donor truck, and besides that Id like to keep it as trucky as possible except for lowering it.
     
  20. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    Ford NP435 ratios.... 6.68/3.34/1.66/1.00

    Others... http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/np435.htm
     
  21. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member

    It's going to take some cash to build a 300 that would beat a 4.6L Stang.

    You won't break much of anything with a 4.2L.:D
     
  22. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member


    What are you putting this stuff in? A T5 would be a better choice then the mazda 5spd. But if it's going in a heavy vehicle it won't last long behind the 300 unless you really baby it.
     
  23. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    F100.......... I plan on dropping quite a few dimes in this engine. We've been discussing 390 vs 352 pistons for it. Is there any piston slap when going to either of these?
     
  24. genosslk
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 245

    genosslk
    Member

    I used a '83 300 six in my Yard Art. The engine is mostly stock with a few internal performanc parts. A 268 cam, roller rockers, blue printed oil pump, and balanced rotating parts. I run a Clifford dual four intake with twin Holley 94's. It turns a Tremic 3-speed manual to a 3.50:1 rear 8 inch gear.

    This thing hauls butt..... tire smoke is just a throttle mash away! I do get 18 mpg in this 2,600 pound car.
     

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  25. tjm73
    Joined: Feb 17, 2006
    Posts: 3,484

    tjm73
    Member

    I wish I could get my hands on a 2 carb 300 intake. Cliffords doesn't appear to sell it bare anymore.
     
  26. tlmartin84
    Joined: Jul 28, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    tlmartin84
    Member
    from WV

    Yeah you have to drop about 1400ish for a whole kit. Comes with the webers and all. So that and a header is gonna put me around 1700, Rebuild kit is about 300$, and Im hoping I can get it bored and the headwork done for about 1k........ and a few for the cam. Im hoping that 3500 will cover all of it..........


    I really appreciate you guys chiming in on stuff you've done to your sixes. I lot of people offer advice, but its nice to hear stuff from people running them........
     
  27. genosslk
    Joined: Feb 6, 2009
    Posts: 245

    genosslk
    Member

    I made the adapters to turn them into two barrels, very easy..... I have seen three of the dual four intakes on ebay in this last year.
     
  28. Fordman75
    Joined: Dec 1, 2002
    Posts: 370

    Fordman75
    Member


    They don't have them on their website but I was told they still sell them you just have to call and order them.





    Or you could call them and just order the intake for $400-$450 and buy the carbs elsewhere where you won't pay thru the rear.

    Don't buy anything from clifford that you can buy elsewhere!!
     
  29. MrFalcon62
    Joined: Sep 9, 2010
    Posts: 249

    MrFalcon62
    Member

    I personally had Clifford blueprint the head for my 200 several years ago, and their customer service was awesome.....however, I called them recently to order a hydraulic lifter (to replace a collapsed one in my engine) and they acted like it was an enormous pain in the ass for them to process my order.

    www.classicinlines.com is my ford 6 company of choice!
     
  30. CutawayAl
    Joined: Aug 3, 2009
    Posts: 2,144

    CutawayAl
    Member
    from MI

    No idea what's going on in Clifford's case, but that's the kind of thing that all too often happens when the kids take over for the old man, or someone buys a successful business. The original owner had a combination that made the business what it was, and the new people have different ways of thinking.
     

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