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History Auto racing 1894-1942

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by kurtis, Jul 18, 2009.

  1. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
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  2. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
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    from Bath, UK

    Don - we seem to be getting back towards "Grande Épreuve" country here. My impression is that things tended to get lost in translation between French, English and German and your Contest Board snippet seems to confirm that. German sources often talk of a "Grosser Preis von Grossbritannien" when what they actually mean is the RAC Tourist Trophy and of the "Grosser Preis der Vereinigte Staaten" when they mean the Indianapolis 500. And that's before you even consider the confusion over the various "Grands Prix de Belgique", which seem to have been whatever the ACB decided they were!

    On the same era, have you seen any evidence of AIACR CSI representations to the Contest Board during 1929 and 1930 asking them to consider some changes to the formula they'd agreed in January 1929? There are some interesting bits and pieces in the British journals of the time which suggest this - and by extension that the Americans told them where to go!

    Incidentally, were you aware that 'Pop' was in Europe in 1929 and returned making the confident prediction that anything up to half the 1930 Indy field would be European? That worked well ...
     
  3. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    [​IMG]

    Cooling the Charge on a Supercharged Racing Duesenberg: The spectacular multi-piece casting seen in our photo of Fred Winnai’s supercharged Duesenberg Special is an air to air intercooler. Learn all about it and the Duesenbergs three wins at the brickyard. Below is one of a two page article on the intercooler, see the other along w/an article about the supercharger on The Old Motor.

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    Last edited: May 6, 2013
  4. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
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    I have the notes made at the Fall 1928 CSI meeting, the first that the Contest Board served as the US rep, which contains a discussion of the various proposals made regarding the next International Formula, which was, of course, prior to the A.A.A. Technical Committee drawing up the new technical rules for the championship cars in December 1928, which were adopted by the Contest Board in January. This evening I will post some of the items of interest if anyone is interested.

    As for the Grande Épreuve issue, it could be suggested that since they knew what they were referring to at the time, perhaps the problem lies with those of today being entagled with presentism, to say nothing of lacking the verstehende necessary to easily grasp the contemporary thinking about such things. That said, I often have the feeling that after reading some of the material that even they were a bit vague at times regarding these sorts of things. As cosmopolitan as the racing world may have been, relatively speaking, for the times, it was still a reflection of the fragmented -- even fractious -- nature of the world of that day.

    Yes, very much aware of Pop Myers and his eternal, optimistic efforts to make the Memorial Day race an international fixture, to include his many visits to Europe seeking entries for the race. I have always had an admiration for his efforts on behalf of the speedway, regardless of the many consequences, both known and the often unknown, that transpired as a result of those efforts. One tends to sense that the issue of insularity was less an American than an International -- European, in other words -- one.

    The rules adopted to begin with the 1930 International Sweepstakes race were the result of a number of factors, not the least of which was Captain Eddie Rickenbacker, president of the IMS and also the chairman of the Contest Board -- which made him the czar of US racing. In essence, what Captain Eddie wanted, tended to happen. Consider the state of US racing as it entered the last few years of the Twenties, then what the Technical Committee drew up and the Contest Board accepted begins to make sense. There was, however, also that desire to attract foreign entries, which became more challenging as the economic situation changed.
     
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
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  5. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 745

    carl s
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    from Indio, CA

    " have the notes made at the Fall 1928 CSI meeting, the first that the Contest Board served as the US rep, which contains a discussion of the various proposals made regarding the next International Formula, which was, of course, prior to the A.A.A. Technical Committee drawing up the new technical rules for the championship cars in December 1928, which were adopted by the Contest Board in January. This evening I will post some of the items of interest if anyone is interested." Don Capps

    More please.
     
  6. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
    Member
    from Bath, UK

    What he said ^

    Very interested to see that! I've seen suggestions that after the 1930 rules were adopted the Europeans tried to get the Americans to cut the limit to 5 litres/305ci and drop the two valves per cylinder requirement as a way of unifying the formula again: this had reputedly been suggested by Bugatti and Bentley, which is an interesting thought! What on earth would they have made of the fastest lorries in the world at the Brickyard?

    Reading between the lines, the Americans seem to have provisionally accepted the idea - but only if the Europeans agreed to ban superchargers. That appears to have been the end of the conversation ...
     
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  7. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

    [​IMG]

    Off Topic but we think you will enjoy this. Two types of round spheres apparently helped well known English dirt track racer Les Blakeborough. This undated press photo shows a wheel he invented that carried a series of large wooden balls mounted on the rim in place of a tire. The inventor claimed his new device makes broad-sliding more rapid and also made it possible to broadside on hard surfaces. More at The Old Motor.
     
  8. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,616

    banjeaux bob
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    from alaska

    Not hard to believe,old roller skates used for racing had wooden wheels.
     
  9. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
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    Extracts from the report by Ernest N. Smith to the Contest Board concerning the C.S.I. meeting held on 11 October 1928 in Paris as published in the Contest Board Bulletin of 14 November 1928.

    Ernest N. Smith and W.F. Bradley were the Contest Board delegates, taking their seats for the first time, with the outgoing delegate from the A.C.A., William S. Hogan, also present.

    Delegates attending: Germany, Austria, Belgium, Spain, United States, France, Great Britain, Italy, Sweden, and Italy. Presiding as president of the C.S.I., Rene de Knyff.

    Racing Rules for 1929. A sub-commission of the A.C.F. headed by M. Perouse proposed 14 kg of gasoline per 100 km, minimum weight 1,000 kg, minimum width 1 m, 2-seater bodies, but only driver required, no streamlining, & fuel tank visible.
    German delegation: Objected, would favor 4-cylinder engines & not be fast enough.
    British delegation: would favor team combinations, one going fast using up fuel, another leading, and third winning when everyone's fuel ran out.
    US delegation: rules would be submitted too late for US to adopt in 1929.
    Italian delegation: poll of manufacturers supported proposal. Suggestions included carrying spare tire.
    Consensus: "91 1/2 inch" rule had developed car too fast for safety.

    After discussion, following agreed up: gasoline allowance of 14 kg (30.86 lb.) per 100 km (62.13 mi.); straight gasoline supplied by race organizers, density 720 at 15 degrees, to include oil for transmissions; minimum distance of 600 km; minimum width 39 in. over a height of 9.8 in.; 2-seater bodies, one man on-board; one spare wheel to be carried. Details to be worked out by the national clubs. Rules adopted for 1929 and 1930.

    US delegation stated again that too late to change for 1929, next rule change scheduled for October 1929.

    Proposal by German delegation that advertising of record be left to manufacturers' association rather than Racing Board opposed by Commission.

    British delegation showed how Brooklands could be used for 1 km and 1 mi records -- no action taken. Discussion led to suggestion US oval tracks being registered for mile and km record attempts.

    Italian delegation successfully proposed that distances of 200 km and 200 mi be added to official speed records.

    International stock car racing rules not discussed.
     
  10. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,616

    banjeaux bob
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    from alaska

    self explanatory...
     

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  11. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
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    from Bath, UK

    Well, yes and no!

    This picture appeared in the Italian press in 1940, when Tazio gained his private pilot's licence.

    Presumably he hadn't had the time to devote to flying lessons before!

    I doubt he flew much afterwards, either.
     
  12. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

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    Thinking Small – Baby Cars: Is a very interesting post that we have up featuring small cars with H-D and Indian motorcycle engines. This car was built by Floyd Clymer in Denver, Colorado in 1920. It was driven by Hart Hueraine “Hal” Bowman (pictured behind the wheel) in 1920 and it was the only car of it’s type in the Midwest at the time and had to compete with the big cars on dirt ovals. Learn and see more photos on The Old Motor.
     
  13. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

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    The Old Motor Feature Series – The New York to Paris Great Race of 1908 – Part 6: The latest in the popular and interesting series on the famous 22,000 mile race is up on The Old Motor and tells of the trials and tribulations of the racer on their quest to get from Chicago to San Francisco. In one of the many photos we have posted. The Thomas-Flyer can be seen here buried in axle deep mud. Learn more at The Old Motor.
     
  14. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    Question: Is Cranston, Rhode Island 1896 the first world wide oval track trace?Or is there something before in Europe?
     
  15. carl s
    Joined: Mar 22, 2008
    Posts: 745

    carl s
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    from Indio, CA

  16. Vitesse
    Joined: Feb 9, 2010
    Posts: 265

    Vitesse
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    from Bath, UK

  17. Don Capps
    Joined: Feb 13, 2010
    Posts: 111

    Don Capps
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    Here are several references to the event held at Narragansett Park in September 1896:

    "The Race Track," The Horseless Age, September 1896 Vol. I No. 11, pp. 1-2;

    "The Providence Race," The Horseless Age, September 1896 Vol. I No. 11, pp. 5-7

    W.H. Pickering, "From the Chairman of the Judges," The Horseless Age, September 1896 Vol. I No. 11, p. 7

    "America’s First Track Race," The Horseless Age, 1 February 1911 Vol. 27 No. 5, pp. 272-274.

    The latter is probably the first retroactive article on the event.
     
  18. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,616

    banjeaux bob
    Member
    from alaska

    Another Christie image with Barney ,this one dated 1907.20 litre,V-4.Again apologies if this has been posted previously.

    BanjeauX Bob
     

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  19. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
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    ^^^^ Bob, That is the 1907 French GP car, Barney did drive it later after the radiator was modified to a more common design. Check out Photo ONE in post # 8931 bu LeeStour, that is the same car with the updated radiator. Bob
     
  20. banjeaux bob
    Joined: Aug 31, 2008
    Posts: 6,616

    banjeaux bob
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    from alaska

    Bob, I posted those pictures .
     
  21. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,629

    The37Kid
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    Ok, maybe a repost of the '07 car and the later modified version side by side would be nice to see. I tried to cut and paste it but it wouldn't work. Bob
     
  22. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

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    The 2013 Donnington Park Historic Festival was held recently in England and photographer Pavel Novitski was there and has shared some of his fine work with us. This detail shot shows the handsome lines of the front of a handsome P3 Tipo B Alfa Romeo. See more and find links to Novitski's site and Donnington Park on The Old Motor.
     
  23. stingbean
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 227

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  24. stingbean
    Joined: Dec 30, 2007
    Posts: 227

    stingbean
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    From the April 1931 Issue of "Modern Mechanics and Inventions":
     

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  25. T-Head
    Joined: Jan 28, 2010
    Posts: 3,967

    T-Head
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    from Paradise.

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    Patina, Provenance, Originality – Thoughtful Preservation of Collectible Automobiles: The Larz Anderson Auto Museum of Brookline, Massachusetts, renowned for housing America’s oldest car collection opened their new exhibit: Patina, Provenance, Originality: Thoughtful Preservation of Collectible Automobiles, on May 10th. Preservation of important automobiles, as both historic artifacts and industrial art, provides an important window into the technological ingenuity and design acumen of the early pioneers in auto manufacturing, motor racing, and the changes the automobile brought to America in the 20th Century. David Northey, Walter Owen Bentleys grandson, is seen (above) giving a speech to the attendees on the subject of originality.

    The Larz Anderson Collection containing some of the rarest and most original early cars in the world, will be on display in addition to the vintage racing cars from the Joeseph Freeman collection, and the other 1906-1955 automobiles chosen for the exhibit, to illustrate the principles that guide collectors of important automobiles. See many more photos and more info at The Old Motor.


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    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  26. ZigZagZ
    Joined: Oct 24, 2011
    Posts: 245

    ZigZagZ
    Member
    from LA

    Wilbur Shaw's son is auctioning off some of his father's racing memorabilia this week. Below is a link to the catalog:

    http://www.antiquehelper.com/upcoming-events/398

    I think to 1909 Pest-O-Lite Trophy is really cool. I also like the 1937 Strauss Trophy. I wonder how much those baby borgs will go for?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  27. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    Austins to wake us up!
     

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    rod1 likes this.
  28. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
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    from cloud 9

    More
     

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  29. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
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    from cloud 9

    little more
     

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  30. saacha
    Joined: Mar 20, 2011
    Posts: 161

    saacha
    Member
    from cloud 9

    Ahh!
     

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