Will welded spider gears just break or will they cause a hard turn

Just wondered, will you just stop moving foreward, or could it be a sudden turn into the grandstands?

 

search past post there was alot of talk about this in the past

 

I know it's a dumb question, but I searched for welded spider geras and got very little.

 

Eventually something will break. And it will be at the worst possible time.

 

I havent done it myself but,i once knew a guy that bracket raced a mustang 2 that was backhalfed and had a 12 bolt rear with welded spiders.He said that they had been welded by someone 9 race seasons back and hadnt broke yet.This was a low 10 second car with 14 inch slicks that was raced every Sunday.

 

Your question is "What are the possibilities if they break at speed or under load?"

Yes? Good question and I don't know the answer.

 

I don't think I would ever do it and of course it would br race only. I've shelled a couple of regular old rearends in my day. It was no big deal. but on a welded set, if one side breaks and the other keeps pulling, it could be a bad day.

 

lots of circle track and demo guys do it, but the NHRA outlawed it ages ago.If its a street car you'll ad a ton of stress on the axels with every corner you turn .Sooner or later you will find the weakest partin your rear. If its strictly a drag car , just bite the bullit and get a spool. There is not that expensive and a hole lot safer.

 

I havn't found a spool or mini-spool for a '55-'64 Chevy car rear.

 

I had a right axle break,on an old ford rear with welded spiders. It was in a dragster,about 60' out of the hole. It made a hard right turn,I got off the power quick! and drove it off the first turnoff,at about 40mph. It could have been worse at 100!! I had to cut the rear cover off to remove the axle,the splines were twisted into the spiders,and locked there. I replaced with an OPEN 9",and felt safer after that. Sparky Don't weld your spiders!!

 

That's all I needed to hear.

 

I don't remember who, but somebody used to sell locking spider gears. They were made sorta square so they wouldn't turn. Maybe there's still some around as an alternative to a spool. But any time you run a locked rear, you better have good axles, etc. cause if something breaks on one side, you'll turn!

 

I'm sure someone makes a minispool for your app. Call Jeg's or Summit. Let those jerk off's do you leg work!

 

I don't think you can get a spool for that rear and you'll break a factory posi pretty quick. I used to run a welded 10 bolt in an 11sec drag car on slicks untill I steped up to a 9" ford. I never had a problem but anything can happen. I wouldn't be afraid to do it again, But then again I never wory about some of the things that keep some people up at night... usually if you scater a rear it's when you leave the line but it can happen an a hard shift too.

 

Jegs sent me a mini spool for it. Of couse it didn't fit. Now they say nobody makes one. I've done some net searching too.

 

I used to run welded spider gears in a roundy round dirt track car. We had 2 fail before we figured out how to weld the gears. I can tell you the best case deal with a welded set up failing is if the spider gears themselves break. Usually the car will just stop moving, but when it happens you can plan on changing the whole rear because it fills everything with steel slivers. Worst case is when only one side fails, those are the ones that make the 90 degree turn (pretty fast too) usually in the direction of the failed side.

We found that the best method of welding the spiders was to fill in the space between the teeth on all sides so that the only actual open space is where the teeth mesh. Most people try to weld the spiders together, those are the ones most likely to break the gears.

There are two things you HAVE to do if you weld the spiders.
1) you HAVE to mark your axles for twist, and you HAVE to inspect them regualrly. If the spiders are welded in the method discribed above, the axles are the weakest point. I don't care if you have a locker, a spool, or a factory posi, if you break an axle, your in for a ride.

2) You HAVE to do an inspection of the spider gears themselves. If your on pavement and/or making many turns, you need to do the inspection more often then we did on the dirt. We inspected our axles and spiders at mid season and at season end. Look them over good.

BTW, I ran a set of welded spiders on the street for about a half hour one day. The tires was squeeling almost all the time, any correction of the steering wheel required one of the rear tires to spin, or it would slide the front tires. If you have good traction tires, it can be real hard to even turn the car, the locked rear will want to just push the front end instead of turn the car. Was quite an experance, almost as much fun as it was when one of the side spider gears broke under power one day... Gene

 

I did it to a 67 chev pickup (light ass end) and it worked fine for many miles. Chirrped around corners and such, and did the sweet posi burnouts though. It was cool in that, but in a heavier car or weaker rearend I dunno

 

Hey Rand,
I know technically it ain't the right thing to do,buuttt....I've welded up several of the early chev. rears over the years.Most of 'em for roundy rounders and a few for the street.They work good when welded well.The trick is don't just weld the spiders,Weld It All.
If you do it,give it a serious douche before hand so there is no grease to roast ,then weld as much of the spiders and the axle drivers as possible to the carrier.Then cut the hexes off of 4 head bolts,lay the head bolts between the axle drivers and and the spider pin and weld the bejesus out of 'em all the way around. Don't spare the rod or wire,whichever you are welding with or the heat and give it another serious douche after your done and it cools off on it's own.Don't quench.
It may not be pretty or light,but you damn sure won't break the spiders,and yes ,if I understand your question correctly,(and I probly don't),pushing the car by hand it will get hard to push when turned,or yes if it pops an axle it will try to turn hard to the broken side and go to the driven side when off the gas and or on the brakes.
Are you doin' this for your HAMB dragster project?
If you are those old skinny's will be hard pressed to wreck anything anyway.LOL
Good luck and happy motoring ,T.OUT

 

I used to run them in a dirt tracker and they work real good on dirt. You have the rear breaking loose most of the time anyway. Never had any big dramas when an axle let go other than losing half your drive.

My dad used to do the welding in those days so I don't know much about technique but this post did remind me of something some of the guys used to do. They used to somehow pour lead in them to lock them. It doesn't last all that long but when it lets go there's no big crunch. Just melt it out and go again. Wish I could tell you more about how it was done but I know it was done.

Pete

 

I bought a 39 standard ford coupe in the mid 70's that had the spider gears welded and that car shook like hell going around corners,,,,dirt is more forgiving than tar and gravel!

I guess he was gonna build it into a dirt track car but I saved it,,,,,I drove the coupe about 22 miles home.

Didn't take me but a few hours to change out the axle with a 40 ford axle and drove it for several years as a daily driver!HRP

 

Yes it's for the dragster. It's too late to swap the rearend. Looks like it will be running open. That single hoop roll bar is scary enough.

 

Hey Rand,What ratio gear does it have in it?
T,OUT

 

"We found that the best method of welding the spiders was to fill in the space between the teeth on all sides so that the only actual open space is where the teeth mesh. Most people try to weld the spiders together, those are the ones most likely to break the gears. "

Exactly, Summer Bros even sold spider gears in the 60's that were manufactured that way.

 

Ya know, I started off to make a comment about this welded spider, locked rear end bit and ended up going down memory lane and knocking out a short story.

It'll be up in a separate post in a few minutes....

 

I have a 3.36 open rear right now.

 

Do they make a spool for it?

I ran a welded spider setup in my first year racing ice oval. It held up, but when I took it apart, I saw it had broken the gears, but didn't come apart.

Pavement isn't as forgiving, I bet.

I switched to a mini-spool, and never had to think about it, again.

That was a GM rearend, though...
I don't know shit about Fords, but there has to be a spool made for 'em... right?




JOE

 

Quit worrying! Sure anything "could happen", but come on. If you are confident enough in your welding skills to build a car then you should have no problem welding a rearend. For 2 years my almost daily driver was a 1966 Olds 88 runnin a welded rearend with 10 inch slicks. And I drag raced it every weekend.

 

just for info I broke a mini spool last weekend at the strip in my 55 with a 9 inch and took most of the splines off of a new moser 28 spline axle and went hard right at the same time off the line. i just bit the bullet and bought a new nodular center and full spool and new 35 spline axles, I wont break again and ill be at mokan for sure... be carefull is the main thing your car is too nice to chance darting some unknown direction at the hit of the throttle......cya there sam

 

Welded rear ends are common in the 4x4 world and I know of no one personaly who has ever had a problem with it beyond breaking a poorly welded diff.

Tons of people on pirate4x4.com run welded diffs. do a search on that site and you'll find step by step photo's on how to weld various styles of differentials

And the hard sharp turn when something brakes can happen with any locking differential device.

 

I have no experiance with welded spiders on pavement but on the dirt tracks we used Unique 100 stick.It is a high nickle alloy that is tough as hell. Welded right the axles will give before the spiders. Dirt is a lot more for giving than blacktop .Your call
Jerry