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409's-Legend or Boat Anchor?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by HotRod28AR, Dec 9, 2006.

  1. H380
    Joined: Sep 20, 2015
    Posts: 483

    H380
    Member
    from Louisiana

    Agree. Made the last MK IVs in '90-'91. 25 years ago. I think the last BBs stopped in '09 were in TopKicks. Which is why a low mile junkyard LS is head and shoulders moneywise above everything else right now. That is where I would look.
     
  2. deucendude
    Joined: Oct 31, 2008
    Posts: 669

    deucendude
    Member
    from norcal

    Boat Anchor! Look what happened when max wedges came out!
     
    das858 and falcongeorge like this.
  3. BSL409
    Joined: Aug 28, 2011
    Posts: 623

    BSL409
    Member

    Guess I have two slow boat anchors :D
     
    61Cruiser, Nitroholic, cavman and 5 others like this.
  4. ROADSTER1927
    Joined: Feb 14, 2009
    Posts: 3,127

    ROADSTER1927
    Member

    I hope the two I am building will be about the same boat anchors as BSL409. Gary
     
    61Cruiser likes this.
  5. deucendude
    Joined: Oct 31, 2008
    Posts: 669

    deucendude
    Member
    from norcal

    Guess you are to young to remember 1962, 63
     
  6. jcmarz
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 4,631

    jcmarz
    Member
    from Chino, Ca

    I remember reading this book that I had, years ago when people read books, about how a showroom stock Impala Super Sport with a single quad 409 could run mid 13s in the quarter mile and 0 to 60 in 6 seconds. A dual quad 409 would run mid 12s and 0 to 60 in 4 seconds. That's on par with the later Chevy Super Sports with the Rat Motor. I think the whole boat anchor thing is because of the 348s.
     
  7. Kosman
    Joined: Oct 6, 2015
    Posts: 12

    Kosman
    Member

    Im building one for my 35 chevy coupe hoping for 9.90s car ran 10.90s with a flat top 406 small block my 9er is .020 over with a 396/402/427 crank for a 444 ci walden Z11 heads .650 roller cam 6.350 aluminum rods and 14.1 compression ratio. not a boat anchor. z11 427 was one of the most powerful factory big blocks made, rated at 430 hp but were said to make around 500 it was 9er based
     
  8. jcmarz
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 4,631

    jcmarz
    Member
    from Chino, Ca

    post some pics of that fine 409!
     
  9. BSL409
    Joined: Aug 28, 2011
    Posts: 623

    BSL409
    Member

    Not sure how old your heads are from Lamar but you better watch out for the valve seats they installed !! and if lamar told you that you will have 14.1 compression your going to be way off
     
    Baron likes this.
  10. BSL409
    Joined: Aug 28, 2011
    Posts: 623

    BSL409
    Member

    1. The new McQuillen 2x4 & blower manifolds units are out and Z12 coming soon
    .[​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  11. sunbeam
    Joined: Oct 22, 2010
    Posts: 6,214

    sunbeam
    Member

    In 1965 the full size Chevys were available early with a 400 hp 409 later in the year a 425 hp 396 show room stock the 409 was faster.
     
  12. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    For all those who bad mouth the 409/ 4 speed its obvious you never had the experience of driving one and don't know what your talking about. Boat Anchor my ass.
    Back in the day the 409/4 speed was a pretty potent combination. At the time it was something you could drive off the dealers lot and go racing. They were everywhere. At the very least I never worried about getting beat by a small block tri 5. 389/421 Pontiac's were no slouch and Mopars were few and far between and had not yet come into there own.
    I'd have to say the 409/4 speed in early to mid sixties had the largest impact on cruising and street racing then any other car. I still believe 409/4 speed Biscaynes and BelAirs 2 door post cars are as "cool" as it gets.
    I feel sorry for the younger guys who never got to experience the early to mid sixties which I call the hay day of hot rodding, cruising and street racing. Trust me when I tell you American Graffiti was no myth. Thats exactly the way it was. Its has never been the same since then and never will be again. Too bad you missed it.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
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  13. Russco
    Joined: Nov 27, 2005
    Posts: 4,327

    Russco
    Member
    from Central IL

    Found a couple more pics of my Dad's old 409 A/Fuel car It definitely held its own. When they did finally change power they went big Hemi, but this thing ran pretty strong 409 dawsoncar.jpg dads409.jpg
    JRFUELBURNOUT.jpg
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2016
  14. If they where so great why didn't GM factory install them in the corvettes?
     
  15. LOL

    In stock trim or even beefed with what was available in the day and still be drivable they were a 12 second motor at best. I don't know if anyone mentioned it but they didn't run well when hot and they had an overheating problem when run hard. They trapped air in the heads and developed hot spots, I remember seeing all sorts of cooling off trick between rounds at the track.

    All that said, I did own a 2x4, 4 speed 409 Bisquit for a while and even though it was not "the fastest car in the valley" it was a blast to drive. ;)

    I am with the Wolf here, there must have been a reason that they never made it into the Vette program. ;)
     
    Old wolf likes this.
  16. Torkwrench
    Joined: Jan 28, 2005
    Posts: 2,713

    Torkwrench
    Member

    Zora Duntov didn't want the extra weight on the front of Vettes. The extra weight would negatively affect the handling and since Corvettes were mainly considered sports cars the 409 was never offered as an option.

    As far as the engine, it's definitely a legend.
     
  17. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,287

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

  18. ididntdoit1960
    Joined: Dec 13, 2011
    Posts: 1,030

    ididntdoit1960
    Member
    from Western MA

    so what changed between '63 and '65 when they put the 396 in the vette? other than 4 wheel discs it was the same car......why not a 409/425hp split window? surely no heavier than a BB '65
     
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  19. Ive owned a few, a 58 tri power and some 409 truck,s and they did overheat. I learned really quick you couldn't haul asphalt in a 409 powered dump truck on a hot summer day. The idling and slow speed when waiting to load or unload wasn't possible. My old 330 FE ford pulled just as good and used less fuel and never overheated.
     
  20. Trying to compete sales wise with the new Pontiac Tiger (lemans GTO) I suppose. The new GTO was taking the world by storm and while they were both under the GM Umbrella the different divisions were competing for US dollars.

    There is a trick that helps with the heating problem, you take a heat gun (like they use in HVAC) and use it to find the hot spots. When you find one you drill and tap it for a 1/8" line and run the line to the T stat housing. That lets the air out and then you have done away with a hot spot.

    I was at a strip in S Missouri back in the early '70s and there was a local 409 car that ran all the time. He had a ball valve in a T with a threaded hose barb, between rounds he would roll up to the water station in the pits and hook up and cool his engine off for the next pass. I asked the guy what he was doing and he said that it was fast when it was cool and not so fast when it wasn't.
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2016
  21. jcmarz
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 4,631

    jcmarz
    Member
    from Chino, Ca

    That's true, and while the '09 or as I sometimes call it: The Prehistoric Rat, was great at the 1/4 mile but not so great for roundy rounders. As far as weight, the MIV, is a little heavier than the '09.
     
  22. Gman0046
    Joined: Jul 24, 2005
    Posts: 6,256

    Gman0046
    Member

    The problem with a 2016 thread about a back in the day engine (409) most negative posters on this thread I guarantee you never came within 50 feet of a 409 much less ever driven a 409 powered car. Probably something they heard from their Grandmother. Hence the "Boat Anchor" bull shit. It also brings out way too many exaggerations like 14's turned by a 1967 stock 273 C.I. Dodge Dart and someone else making a living replacing many 409's with SBC's and throwing the 409's in a dumpster. I will also venture a guess that less then 1% of these negative posters have ever made a pass down a 1/4 mile track. What I also find amusing is the 409's running hot myth. None of mine ever ran hot even after multiple passes.

    I'm a member of the www.348-409.com web site. At the 2016 NHRA Hot Rod Reunion (HRR) in Bowling Green, KY this June there are currently thirty three members of the site signed up to run their 409 powered cars at the Beech Bend Drag Strip. I'd like to cordially invite all those who have bad mouthed the 409 on this thread to bring YOUR cars to the HRR as there will be ample opportunity for you to show everyone how you can mop up a bunch of Boat Anchor powered cars.

    Anyone want to bet that none of the 409 bashers on this HAMB thread will show up?
    If you want to call something a Boat Anchor I'll agree that would be a 396 or 454.

    Gary
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2016
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  23. Bandit Billy
    Joined: Sep 16, 2014
    Posts: 12,287

    Bandit Billy
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    396 a boat anchor? I need to follow you around the lake in Gary. Glad to take them off your hands before you tie a bow rope to them. Especially those horrible little L89s, anchors away!
     
    Baumi likes this.
  24. There are folks who are fans of every type of engine. Its all opinion I from experience learned to stay away fron Y block fords, V6 GMC,s and Chevrolet W engines. There was this Guy Named Barney Navarro. Made Flathead parts. He went broke trying to race 6 cyl rambler engines in indy cars!
     
  25. jcmarz
    Joined: Jan 10, 2010
    Posts: 4,631

    jcmarz
    Member
    from Chino, Ca

    We had a "W" for president.
     
  26. xhotrodder
    Joined: Jul 2, 2009
    Posts: 1,665

    xhotrodder
    Member

    The true piece of shit was the 348 motors. I had a factory 3-2's 348 in my 58
    Chevy Impala. Had about 90,000 miles on it, and it would always be hard to start after short 15 minute drives. I would have to let it set for at least 30 minutes before I could start it on short trips. I traded it in for a 56 Chevy 210 2-dr. that had a 58 Chevy Corvette powertrain in it. The car lot had their mechanic check my old 58 out, and he said it had low compression in almost every cylinder. He pulled the engine and rebuilt it. Said it had 7 cracked pistons, and he thought it was because the factory had made the cylinder walls too tight on the pistons. I used to hear a lot of people bitch about the 348 engines. Not so much the 409's.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2016
  27. Jessie J.
    Joined: Oct 28, 2004
    Posts: 410

    Jessie J.
    Member

    Had that same hot start problem with our '58 Imp, and then again with a '61 350 hp
    Living in a small town, we soon learned to park at the top of the tallest street and walk wherever we needed to go.
    Both would fire right off, given a rolling start and popping the clutch.
    Both of these ended up being changed over to dependable 283's
     
  28. coilover
    Joined: Apr 19, 2007
    Posts: 696

    coilover
    Member
    from Texas

    They are definitely a pretty engine when dressed out but WAY more expensive than sbc or bbc to build. My friend has a 503ci in his 37 coupe that was scavenged from his 62 drag car and detuned for the street. Still gives a slam you back in the seat ride but at the cost of two bbc's. 1213081217.jpg 1213081218.jpg 050.JPG 051.JPG
     
    61Cruiser likes this.

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