I'm a long way off from starting building anything, but I am following H.A.M.B. and trying to learn as much as I can. The plan is to build a traditional hotrod out of a Model A sedan or Model A or 33/34 pick-up. It will definitely have a flathead in it so this post is not about whether I should use a flathead or not - please don't respond with "you want to use a Chevy/"Y" block/big block/small block etc.... My question is what would be the best source flathead to start with. Budget constraints mean that it will probably be a complete home rebuild, aimed at getting as much reliable power out of the engine. A supercharger will probably be out of the budget. I have built engines in the past so I am not a complete novice, but I am just trying to tap into the vast knowledge that is out there in the HAMB community.
Well if you got deep enough pockets you can squeeze about 135 out of one naturally aspirated. I would be on the lookout for a merc or ford from the '50s or if you want to have fun and really be different build a light car and be on the lookout for a V-8 60. They don't make much zot as the name implies but I have seen a few around that were a real blast to drive in years past. We used to snag them out of old rotted out wood speed boats, usually had two cars and aluminum heads already. Anyway if you are looking for a pretty standard flatty to build you really want one from the '50s and if you go merc you already have the longer stroke.
Go with a 49 to 53 engine (54 in Canada). 8-BA or 8-CM. The ford engine has a 3-3/4" stroke and the Mercury has 4". Parts are easy to find. Check out the shoeboxford.com and the fordbarn.com web sites for most anything or questions you might have.
What does your bank statement allow? Socal Sacramento has resells brand new cast blocks, there are custom builders on here and ford barn. Flathead jack has the claim of world's fastest flathead... There are options to pick from on ready to run flatheads! Or save the bucks and roll the dice on a used motor. Many threads here on what to look for in a used flathead, I won't pretend to be that expert. **edit: I wasn't meaning flathead jack as a recommendation, just that his site was in the top Google results with a big claim but I do always appreciate everyone letting their fellow rodders know who to avoid!!!
Another great choice is the 59A engine because it gives you more space to install a engine driven fan due to the distributor location. But the 8BA is also a great engine. Its drawback is the original distributor location makes it difficult to mount a stock mounted fan without modification. Another choice would be to change the cam in the 8ba to allow the front mounted 59A distibutor. Expect between 4-8 grand for a rebuild depending on your engine internal choices. Where are you located?
This is all great info - thanks to everyone who has replied. I am not ready to build but am planning/budgeting at the moment so I can hit the ground running. My old stock car (reputedly) had a '49 Mercury engine in it, but it came with the car and the engine numbers had been shaved off(!!) so I drew a blank at identifying it. It had (from memory) an engine driven fan and it ran really strongly despite only having a single carburettor. If I could get an engine that ran as well as that for my first flathead rebuild, I'd be very pleased.
Home rebuild? great choice. Use Reds Headers for parts, stay away from Flathead Jack (just MHO) unless you have lots of money and want to deal with an asshole. Personal choice would be a 59A or 8BA for your Model A get a copy of Vern Tardels book How to build a Traditional Ford Hot Rod lots of good info there and if you can find one Nostalgia by Ron Halloran, my favorite book ever. Just remember its not a Cheby small block and don,t expect gobs of HP but you will have plenty of HP and low end grunt for a light Model A and besides you will make Henry and me smile a lot by putting another Bent Eight on the road. Or you can add a huffer and really have fun!!!
I agree with Carl, Flathead Jack is pricey and a grouch. I've only dealt with him twice in my life, once was 10 years ago when I was building my first flathead. Didn't have much cash, so I didn't get much assistance from him and wasn't made to feel welcome in his shop. Second time was when I moved to Pleasant Hill and he actually drove by my new house, turned around because my Model A pick up was in the driveway (running the very flathead I needed his advice on!). He stopped for a minute then took off, didnt even roll a window down to say a simple hello to a fellow L-head enthusiast. I knew it was him since it said "FLATHEAD JACK" in huge letters on the side of the truck hahahaha!!!
59A and 8BA, along with the prewar 239's, are equally buildable in most ways. The blocks are dimensionally identical except for the bellhousing, only real difference is that transmissions with their own bells like GM automatics are impractical for the integral bell 59. Other than that sort of conflict pretty much all options are similarly open for '39-42, '46-48 59, and 8BA and its various relatives up to '53. All innards swap in multiple ways...all 59's start at 239, the post-1948 Mercs had the 4" crank for 255. All of this stuff swaps '39-53 in one combination or another. The 255 crank, for instance, can fit into earlier motors either with the inexpensive and simple '49 up rods and bearings, or with the more expensive but stronger/safer early floaters. Remember, virtually all flathead racers in their heyday used 59's or the allegedly thicker '39-42 239's, and nearly all rods in the actual pre-64 period used the earlies too. 59 mains were generally considered stronger than the lates, and the floater bearings helped dragster flatheads survive. If you can't find a good early, as the late engines are now easier to find, the late engines can be built to strongly resemble the 59. The front end hardware is important in a tight home like a Model A or a slanted-radiator '33-4 application, as the late engine is significantly longer up front than a 59, even though block length is same...so the 59 type cam can be used in the late engine, allowing the better early ignition and allowing a very short front package of pumps, generator, fan, etc. Late setup will require an aftermarket distributor, as the '49-53 stocker is crap, and will force all the accessories out a good deal farther...The extra length is less important in '32 or '40-53 chassis, but will cause a lot of extra work in a '29.
Flat Head Jack is a grouch but I have had some long and great phone conversations with him. He doesn't sugar coat anything but is a wealth of information. I bought a lot of parts from him but all are very good quality. The expensive parts are the junk I bought that was not good enough quality to use and are stuffed under the work bench.. Walter
These days you have to take what you can get especially in Scotland. If you can find a block that is not cracked or worn out you are lucky. You may end up with an engine from a WW2 Canadian made military vehicle or an early fifties Ford Pilot which will mystify the Americans!
This is all great, thanks to everyone who has taken the time to respond. HAMB is brilliant! I think I may have to start taking notes! With regards to transmission, I intend to use a matching Ford gearbox. I want to keep it all period so I won't be using a late transmission (manual or auto) and so the 59's integral bell-housing doesn't seem to be a problem. However, as Rusty says, living in Scotland I may have to take what I can get. Funnily enough, there's probably more US/Canadian or even French Simca flatheads in the UK than original indigenous Ford Pilot engines. Bruce's comments about interchangeability has got me thinking about starting to quietly gather the right bits as and when I find them. Can anyone one recommend a good workshop or parts manual? On previous (British Motorcycle) engine rebuilds, I have found parts lists and exploded engine part catalogues (sorry, not describing this well) to be really useful. Once again thanks to everyone.
Jeesus Scott, all you had to do was ask! I know of a certain person /garage in Edinburgh that could provide you with what you need, either advice or stuff. Having said that you are in the right place (HAMB) for good advice all based on experience and a generosity that is humbling (and occasionally very funny) No matter where you are based the HAMB makes the world smaller and better. Gordon.
Ah, there you are! How are you doing? It never occurred to me that you'd be on the HAMB! (Duh). I'm well away from starting the project but it doesn't hurt to plan (and dream!). Thanks for the offer of advice etc and you're right about HAMB. If I'm not careful I can lose hours trawling through the forums! By the way, I sent you a friend invite on Facebook. I'm not sure if you'd embraced social media so don't worry if you don't want to come over to the dark side!
Your range of flatheads over there should be heavy on Canadian truck and bren carrier engines, all 24 studs, some 221, many 239 99's and 29 types...all excellent stuff, some with full flow filter or cooler plumbing. The English engines are all 1937 types built up into the '50's, probably mostly wartime carrier engines...all 221, still a decent start. Dig for Ford Pilot workshop manuals and wartime Canadian manuals.
In the US there are plenty of factory manuals, at one time every Ford dealer had them and quite a few survive. Repair manuals and parts manuals usually go for $50 or thereabouts. Reprints go cheaper but are not as large or complete. Well worth it and will save you time and money.
Ha ha ha yeah just drive down to the nearest junkyard in Scotland, and pick out the best lowest mileage 51 Mercury engine on offer. I should cocoa.
Scott, Lets just say that one of us an 'extra' copy of parts lists/manuals and exploded views for all things Ford from 1928 thru to 1959+ among other things... 20 or 30,000 pages? Now, assuming that we both have a local post office, How would the 'other' one of us receive these if they required it?? ? I suppose the HAMBs private message system might be a useful tool to exchange basic information, no? moe/Canada .
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