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Hot Rods Tube axle vs I beam, Ride characteristics

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by Roothawg, Oct 5, 2015.

  1. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,502

    Roothawg
    Member

    Any difference in the 2? I have always wondered. I have always been partial to the I beam setups, but I was pondering a 5" dropped tube axle for a future project since they don't make the 5" dropped in a forged I beam.

    What say ye?
     
  2. scrap metal 48
    Joined: Sep 6, 2009
    Posts: 6,079

    scrap metal 48
    Member

    Magnum just started making a 5" I-beam.. Don't know if it's forged...
     
    lothiandon1940 likes this.
  3. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    I'd be concerned more about the susp. geometry difference.
    I's twist, Tubes don't. My guess would be that P&J came up w/the four-bar and bushed ends
    to properly attend a tube axle.
     
  4. 3wLarry
    Joined: Mar 11, 2005
    Posts: 12,804

    3wLarry
    Member Emeritus
    from Owasso, Ok

    yup
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.

  5. The tube axles are rigid and not designed to twist like a forged axle.

    I mistakenly used a super bell tube axle under a 40 Convertible with split bones,I hit a pothole and sheered a perch bolt,I learned the hard way.

    Tube axles need 4 bars or hairpins. HRP
     
    LOU WELLS likes this.
  6. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,502

    Roothawg
    Member

    The 5" magnums stop at 1934. I need it for a 36. I have thought about using a 4 bar, since the fenders hide it.
     
  7. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    SO-CAL has produced some 5" forged dropped I beams and some axle folks can drop a Deuce axle 5 ". Magnum does not offer a 5" forged but will be producing Forged axles in the future. Super Bell has had a 5 1/2" dropped tube axle beginning in the 70's. I have used several of them without any problems, including with split bones. The theory is all wrong but they seem to work. I would not hesitate to use a dropped forged ends axle from Magnum or Super Bell. They used to be produced here in LA by Gregg Foundry but I don't think they are any more.
     
    scrap metal 48 likes this.
  8. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,502

    Roothawg
    Member

  9. JOECOOL
    Joined: Jan 13, 2004
    Posts: 2,771

    JOECOOL
    Member

    I'm not an expert but I doubt if you would notice any ride difference as long as the springs ,shocks, ect were the same.
     
  10. Got a Super Bell beam under my 32 Hiboy with hairpins, and a 5 " tube under my 32 Tudor with 4 bar, and a 5" tube under my 34 roadster with 4 bar. All ride xlnt, it's all in how ya set em up.
     
  11. ratrod0
    Joined: Apr 15, 2005
    Posts: 1,150

    ratrod0
    Member

    What if you buy a 4"drop and send it out and have it dropped 1"more
     
  12. rusty rocket
    Joined: Oct 30, 2011
    Posts: 5,046

    rusty rocket
    Member

    What if you run a 4 inch and flatten the crossmember?
     
    patmanta likes this.
  13. 33-36 Henry axles are the same.
    If a magnum axle is for a 34, it ought to be for a 35 & 36 also.
     
  14. Ebbsspeed
    Joined: Nov 11, 2005
    Posts: 6,248

    Ebbsspeed
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    Probably just a bit less unsprung weight with a tube vs an i-beam, and that usually means a better ride. I doubt that the difference would be real noticeable.
     
    pitman and dana barlow like this.
  15. The tube axles with the cast or forged ends welded in always seemed to me to weigh more than an I-beam, at least compared to a Ford I-beam, those aftermarket I-beams have some pretty thick webs.
     
  16. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,502

    Roothawg
    Member

    I know, that's what I thought. They show them up to 34 in their catalogs though. I guess a call is in order.
     
  17. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,502

    Roothawg
    Member

    So, with the awesome Oklahoma roads, how does it do? Do you level out the potholes for the state with your 5" drop?
     
  18. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,871

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    I'm wondering how low you're trying to go and how here. There's other ways to pick up that extra inch unless you are going for the look of that drastic 5" drop on the axle. If this is going on a fendered car, that's probably not the case, so, have you thought about a flattened or dropped front crossmember in conjunction with a reverse eye front spring?
     
  19. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,377

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    Take a look at a Posie Dual Flex Super Low spring. More than an inch extra drop there. Might save you from the 5 inch tube. I just sold a customer a 5 inch So-Cal dropped forged I beam which he said looks like it'll work great.
     
    pitman likes this.
  20. pitman
    Joined: May 14, 2006
    Posts: 5,148

    pitman

    ^^^ Ran the std. Posies spring and it was a quality product, worked far better than the Mono it replaced.
     
  21. Sometimes I feel the "lowness" factor is over-rated. The overall look of the components and stance is much more important than being an extra inch lower.
     
  22. An extra inch might have saved this 33 grille from having its chin mangled
    image.jpg
     
  23. Used to scrape the center of the bumper on my old '33; but luckily never got into the fender tie area under the grille point.
     
  24. I have driven both and I have not noticed a difference that you can feel by the seat of your pants. I have not driven a car that I drove with a beam then a tube so maybe the difference would be noticeable in that instance.

    location wise, I prefer hairpins on a tube over radius rods. They seem to be less rigid. If I were building a fender car I might consider a 4 bar but I don't care for the aesthetic of a 4 bar on a hot rod and hairpins work just fine. If you go with a front mount spring like on a boat fender car you can actually get away with split bones, I have done it before. For whatever reason the front mount spring setup gives you that extra give that you need. I have thought about a bushed yolk and radius rods, it doesn't take a lot of give to make up for the lost flex of a beam axle, they really don't have that much deflection on a lighter vehicle anyway. I have some ford radius rod yolks maybe I will play with a bushing setup. Another thought is longer radius rods, they swing a smoother arc and have more flex that a shorter radius rod. I know that the old timers ran radius rods on tube axles without much problem, at least they seemed to pull it off when I was a kid.

    Ok now I have read a thread that has my mind racing, thanks a lot @Roothawg. :D
     
  25. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,502

    Roothawg
    Member

    It's a full fendered 36 pickup. On my 35 I have a CE forged 4" dropped axle with a reversed eye Posies. It sits ok. Just trying to make an educated decision. I ask a lot of questions prior to pulling the trigger. It saves money that way.
     
  26. I think you could hide a 4 link easy enough under the fenders of a '36. You may not be able to hide an off the shelf 4 link depends on the length of the links.

    I know you can go hairpins or you could even split the bones and land them toward the center of the vehicle if you use the proper ball and socket ends on them (they are available) you should get the articulation that you need to work with a tube axle. Your twist will be on the end of the radius rod much like a stock setup.
     
  27. Are they both set up as stock configuration of spring in front?

    When Henry changed to spring in front for 1935, he also made the dip in the front crossmember deeper. The spring in front made it set lower, but the deeper dip crossmember raised it back up.

    If one sticks a spring over axle in a 35 crossmember,,, there's lots of manipulation needed just to get it back down to factory ride height.
     
  28. Roothawg
    Joined: Mar 14, 2001
    Posts: 24,502

    Roothawg
    Member

    They are identical. The truth is, my 35 has a 40 crossmember in it. Actually, the 35-40 crossmembers are all pretty close dimension wise. It is different from the previous models though, as you stated. The whole thing that got me to thinking about this is the fact that when I went to a 200-4R tranny, I had to move the bones out further to accomadate for clearance.

    http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-legrange-produce-tribute-truck-build.936696/page-9
    Then I started looking at 4 bars to remedy this and it snowballed from there......
     
  29. With the 34 it's a lot smoother cause of the 113" wheelbase compared to the 106 of a Deuce. but all 3 ride nice just gotta watch out for the holes and alligators
     
  30. thirtytwo
    Joined: Dec 19, 2003
    Posts: 2,639

    thirtytwo
    Member

    I bought a magnum 5" when they first came out , they are a narrow axle if I remember right , so that's probably why they say 34 , it's probably still do-able with 35-36 bones but you will need to heat the spring ends and probably have a narrow mainleaf made

    Don't know anything about the so-cal axle krylon was talking about but if its a 48" that maybe the one you want
     

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