Hi! Just picked up very stock '28 A milk wagon. I want to turn it into a dependable budget semi daily driver. Would like to keep the stock 4 cyl (numbers matching) but really don't think that makes sense on today's highways? I would think something over 70hp is about the low end what is realistic to not be a complete rolling roadblock? So can the stock motor with basic bolt-ons (head, intake/carb, headers, ignition, and cam make decent power and stay together??? Thinking about t5 too?? Thanks!!!!
If you had asked me that question about 40 years ago I would have said no. People that could build them were probably around but I didn't know anyone. Today there are several good shops and speed equipment manufacturers out there that should be able to get you a reliable 70hp from a Model A engine. Another problem you are going to need to face is that you vehicle has the aerodynamics of a brick with fenders that act like airplane wings. That will limit how fast you want to drive it. I assume you will be upgrading the brakes. Be sure to also post on fordbarn.com. Charlie Stephens
I have been driving my avatar thru 4 states for 18 years and have 9 other Model As. Never heard of a 'milk wagon'. What is that?
Yes, 70HP is possible with bolt on mods. Check the attached link to see some dyno results and in some cases, the accessories and modifications done to achieve these results. http://www.modelaparts.net/dyno.htm/dyno.html
There is also a monthly thread on here which may be of interest http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ing-longer-in-the-north.989391/#post-11146399
I guess it would be a huckster? Body cut off at the cowl and wooden panel body added. It was used to deliver milk and recently owned by a rather large local dairy, Clover.
Yes I did look at those dyno results. Barely making 60 hp? But not head and cam combo. I've seen others with "touring" cam and 6.5 head making a little over 70 which would be good enough. I'm rather leary of the stock bottom end at that level though??? I am all new to banger world. Don't want to throw a bunch of money at the stock motor just to have it blow. Could swap an s10 4cyl and 5 speed in and not worry about it???
You get into modern engines with higher torque and hp, you'll want to box the front of the frame I'm thinking. I would also strongly suggest upgrading the brakes from the mechanical units that were designed to stop a 40hp car going 40mph before you make it a 70hp car going 70mph. I'd stay off the highways for now and drive it around town. That way you will get a good feel for the car as it is and have a better idea what you need to improve for how you want to use it.
There is a monthly banger thread (actually its on going just search banger) and those guys wring more ponies out of 'em than some of the flatty V-8 guys are getting. Not my cup of tea, I don't like to work that hard to go fast. But those guys are the ones to ask or at least take a look at what they are building. Milk truck that's fuckin rad man.
There is nothing wrong with being slower. Your not gonna drive it 80 on the freeway while texting and drinking Starbucks are you? Operate the old car and enjoy it.
Thanks for response! Problem I have is I don't really want to spend $3k+ to "remanufacture" the engine plus the speed equipment. Are ya saying the stock bottom end won't support 70hp? I don't really want to go the S10 (or such) engine/trans/diff swap but it does seem to be the practical move?? Yes, I will upgrade the brakes, that is another question mark??
I don't plan on 80, texting or going to starbucks but under 60 on the freeway is a great way to get killed leave alone just piss'n folks off. Going over the hill at 25-35 is another way... I do plan on enjoying it but being respectful of others is part of the enjoyment to me.
Hippie Nice delivery truck you have there. If you really are an old hippie you should letter the side up with "High Times Transfer Company" I had my stocker out last night. according to my GPS I was cruising the highway at 65 mph at one point. Its still a stock head with an updraft Tillitson. Of course I run over sized rear tires which give an overdrive of about 20%. Hills kill me but of the flats and down hill I'm good. Do forget if your cruising at those speeds you need to stop too. With proper tuning and patience you can get that panel cruising like you want it. I wouldn't really worry about hitting a magic number of 70mph. Slow down and take the back roads, enjoy the drive. Heck, remember that you going slow is only a problem for the impatient people behind you, pull over and let them pass. Good luck
This is a lie, perpetuated by people that don't know how to properly set up mechanical brakes. My car will lock all 4 tires up and throw you through the windshield while it stands on the front bumper. patmanta I'm not slamming you it just irks me when people say that, when its not true
Sustained freeway speeds just aren't practical with the whole engine/brakes/running gear IMHO. I'd get my 29 coupe up to 60+ once in awhile, but with everything stock, knew not to do that too often, or for too long. Still, if you follow the above-mentioned banger gurus, you'll get to your goal and be safer. As always, change over to hydraulic brakes first. Stopping sooner is far more important than going faster.
NP @Tiny I just don't have experience with them and I know the drums on a stock A are not as beefy as even the later cast units. Is there a good tech article on here that covers proper mech brake adjustment and maintenance? I've had a gow-job idea rattling around in my head because I've got a set of 36 front brakes I'd consider running in front of a warmed banger. I could certainly use the info too!
LOL Have to say, From my very limited knowledge on the Tillitson and updraft I am not a fan. It would be the first to go?? I don't need to go fast, just want to be respectfull of others on the road. Yeah, brakes are something else?? Don't like the non-activating early hyd, but did see a kit for newer activaing ones? Also disc set-ups?? Would like to keep the stock wheels. Need more research as this really old stuff is all new to me...
Go with new cast iron drums and Flathead Teds floaters. Make sure there is as little slop in the system as possible and they will stop it. I'm not sure if 36's will work, my only knowledge is of guys running 35's. I think Jim Briely runs 35's on his hill climb car. Speaking of Jim he has a good book about bangers you'll want to pick up
I was hoping I wouldn't have the box the frame staying under 100hp?? I do plan on driving around town awhile and getting the feel of it but it does need kingpins and would like to decide on brakes/spindels before doing them?? Sure the springs are weak and has no shocks so will need some work to get the speed up. Just want to make it a semi-practical driver.
I think the plates are the same 35/36 but 36 was the first year of the Wide 5's. The 36 wide 5 drums are a one year only deal. 37 & up has a shallower offset and are interchangeable with later juice setups. I know MAC's sells cast replacement drums for Model A. I think you can also find old 'Rocky Mountain' accessory drums for an A but they seem to either be $5 each or wallet burning money and usually for later 12" setups.
Looked at the "floaters" but with the cost of new drums, might as well go hyd or even disc?? I have adjusted them. System is in good shape (except no emergency brake linkage at all) and the bonded linings are like new. Googeled Jim Briely book and came up empty??? Kool old salt racer it seems?
Rocky Mountains to my knowledge are a T thing. The drums you see that have the open windows in them are late 31 drums. I wouldn't order them from MAC's, everything I have ever ordered from them was crap quality. There's not much quality control going on over there Snyders has the cast drums I believe. I got mine from a fellow club member that had a new set sitting around
Here you go a copy of an old Fordbarn post "For a copy of my 4-bangers! and me book, send $24 (US customers) to: Jim Brierley, 39480 Colleen Way, Temecula, CA 92592. PayPal welcome, [email protected]. 150 pages of really good info on building a banger, chapters on History, Valves, Cams, Heads & Compression, etc. 28 chapters and 180 half-size pages total. For cost to other countries contact me by the e-mail address above. I can e-mail pic of cover and the index to you." To do the brakes properly its going to cost about $1000 to do mechanicals and $1200-$1500 to do juice brakes depending on how you do them. I itemized it all at one point. Mind you this is all new parts. If you stay with the mechanicals you'll be able to use some of what you have, if you go juice it's all new
Imho; To me that is so unique & complete that I would want to just restore it or at least keep it as original as possible. I would have a hard time convincing myself to do much to it. Bill
That's a great old car, and would be a real shame (and super lame, too) to bastardize it with S-10 parts to make it "more driveable". Once you've swapped out the engine and trans, the torque tube won't work anymore, so you'll do a different rearend, then brakes, then the 21" wires won't fit or won't handle good enough for you or whatever, and in the end you may as well have just put a "Model A Ford" screen printed wrap on a Toyota. We had our 4 cyl. speedsters in the Great Race do 85 with stock trans and an overdrive. Do the floater brake kit, or hydraulics first, then an overdrive, and you'll be shocked how fast and easy to drive that car is. They'll go faster than you'll be comfortable driving it. If you really want a modernized daily driver that just looks like an old car, sell this and get one of those Shay model A reproductions from the 70's, they came from the factory with a Pinto 4 banger and all that other stuff.
Kool, thanks for the link! Yeah I was thinking at least $1000 for brakes. Sac ford has a Bendix kit for $400 an axle plus about $125 for drums then of course MC and plumbing. Speedway disc kit is $350 or so, But don't know what else is needed?
Does that kit come with shoes? How are you going to do the M/C? There's a pretty slick battery box one or fabricating one. I would call Sac Vintage before you order anything from them and have them physically verify its in stock. They are notorious for not having anything in stock. I bet my garage has more A parts in stock than their warehouse. With disks you may not be able to run your stock wheels, I'm not sure. So make sure and figure new wheels and tires into the budget.
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