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Technical 33/34 FORD COUPE RR END SETUP HELP PLEASE - QUICKY / MODEL A RR MEMBER / '36 BONES

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by 345, Aug 10, 2015.

  1. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Trying to get back into this again now that my son is past the 1 YR marker and winter is still a ways off :eek:!

    I'm looking for your help please with dimensions / pics from your rear end set up for a 33/34 Ford 5W coupe with these rear end components:

    • Winters V8 Quickchange
    • Original frame with original (relieved) X Member
    • Model A rear Cross member (not installed or modified yet)
    • Posies Superslide Model A 29-31R
    • Autogear (Muncie) Transmission
    • '36 Ford Rear Bones

    Dimensions and other you can help me with :)...please below?

    1. Distance between rear spring perches for '36 bones (48-1/2"?)
    2. Angle of rear bones to grid or center line
    3. Method of bones forward pivot
    4. Location of pivot
    5. Number of leaves in 29-31R
    6. Rear cross member mods - Hybrid original 34 ends or other
    7. Wheelbase
    8. Location (in car line) reference for the rear X member spring hanger U bolts(perhaps an index hole)
    9. Rear wheels centered in rear wheel arches?
    Thx heaps in advance!!:)
     
  2. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    Lots of posts on this swap/modification. I have included some photos of what I have. Dimensions are difficult to quote as each set up varies. Center the wheels were you want them and make your measurements. Tack and put the whole unit in the chassis. Make adjustments as required then weld. I move the springs hangers to 47' C/L on a 34.

    014-6.jpg 018-5.jpg 027-3.jpg 067.jpg DSC00597.jpg Miller Meet and 34 ProgressShots 031.jpg chassis68.jpg
     
    ls1yj, HemiIn34 and continentaljohn like this.
  3. Great reference photos, Pew. I'm preparing to do the same thing with my 34. My model A rear spring, bought at the swap meet has 10 leaves. Has 2 of the shortest leaves at the top.
     
    ls1yj likes this.
  4. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Wow! Thanks; this is a great start with awesome images.
     

  5. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Rocky,

    Looking at your avatar image (man that sits just right!!!) your rear wheels appear to be really well centered in the wheel arch. Any chance of measuring something on the frame to a feature on your quicky that tells me where the axel is in the X dimension or car line? If you didn't push the castor on the front axel a measurement through the center of the wheels (horizontally) from front edge of the front rim to front edge of the rear rim on both sides would be an enormous help and easier than climbing underneath? Also, do you remember the width of your Winters QC rear end and what brakes are you running back there / wheel tire combo / offset and the resultant clearance inside of tire to the tin?
     
  6. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Thanks for posting those pics Pewsplace I now see an exhaust routing solution I like and location for the hangers...nice!

    I'm not sure what is better; to cut and shut the 34 rear x member ends into the model a rear member or modify the ends of the A? The width is not far off but from these pics I see what I am trying to figure out which is how much rotation? I was assuming that because the A rear spring is straight in the side view that the cross member should be vertical and therefore centered over the shackles / shackle mounts of the '36 bones.
     
  7. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    I mount the A crossmember parallel to the to spring hangers to avoid any binding. The axle should be rotated downward so that when loaded it will be in the upward position about 3 degrees. This measurement can vary depending on your driveline angle. I do have the measurement from the center spring hole of the front crossmember to the center of the A rear crossmember. As I recall it was 118" - I will check my notes.
     
  8. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 531

    Xman
    Member

    wheel base on a 34 is 112"
     
  9. Cyclone Kevin
    Joined: Apr 15, 2002
    Posts: 4,223

    Cyclone Kevin
    Alliance Vendor

    [​IMG]
    This is the set that I came up for my 32 to frame out our Cyclone Quickie.
    32-34 ends narrowed on the front side,rivets untouched, Model A center staying no higher than the top of Left/Right rail and edge welded to make the rear x-member look like a factory install.
    Model 40's would be exactly the same way. Traditional,Clean and Effective all at the same time.
     
    ls1yj, HemiIn34 and Stovebolt like this.
  10. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 531

    Xman
    Member

    I used the whole "A" cross member installed low in the frame rails. A "T" spring and 2 top leafs removed, 35/36 bones. CL of front X-member to CL of rear was 118" like Pewsplace 100_0912.JPG . It worked pretty well putting the rear wheels centered in the wheel wells.
     
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  11. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Thanks Xman this is what I was hoping to confirm. Do you recall the perch width?
     
  12. Xman
    Joined: Nov 17, 2011
    Posts: 531

    Xman
    Member

    Perch width? If you are asking about the spring shackles, they are installed on the 35/36/ bones that are bolted to the axle housings. stock location
    There is a difference in width of the spring and the shackle hinge point on the wishbone. Use the longer shackles that go with the wishbones and make up a couple spacers to compensate for the narrower spring. Dose this make sense?
    Reread my post, meant to say that the rear cross member installed high in the rails.
     
    HemiIn34 likes this.
  13. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Yes this all make sense thanks Xman!
     
  14. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,528

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    P
    Pewsplace frame has the same rearend setup that Jake used in his yellow coupe years ago. Although I hadn't seen Jakes's frame until recently, I was very impressed. Adapting a wishbone mount to the rear bars keeps the exact geometry that Henry Ford incorporated in his cars through 1948, so that speaks volumes about that simple design. There is NO BIND on anything with this system. Pewsplace looks like a super build.
     
    scruff likes this.
  15. Gary Addcox
    Joined: Aug 28, 2009
    Posts: 2,528

    Gary Addcox
    ALLIANCE MEMBER

    345, I measured the perch width while the '36 rearend was still all bolted together. Then I found that a '40 front spring pack with a couple leaves removed fit just right in the stock '34 rear crossmember even though it is bowed. I didn't strengthen my '36 bones less the torque tube because my engine was a stock 265 with a 2:91 rear gear. It get good mileage but wouldn't beat a Moped off the line. I've notice lately that guys are fastening a support bar from the top of the rearend, parallel to a point maybe two-thirds the length of the '36s.
     
    HemiIn34 likes this.
  16. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Thanks for chiming in there Gary. My brother made the same suggestion about the pivot end and I have a couple of Model A bones that can donate a healthy ball and yoke. Further confirmation that grafting an A rear cross member to the original 33 is not necessarily the simplest remedy for clearance to a quick change.

    The Model A rear member I have has some pretty deep pitting which doesn't look pretty but how much (how deep?) is too much loss of material? I measured an area about 1mm deep today (apologies for metric ;)???
     
  17. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1439844314.583048.jpg
    This is the worst of the pitting.
     
  18. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    I checked with the posies site for the spring I ordered more than a year ago and confirmed a 46 1/2" shackle spacing (29-31R-C) so my next question is....how much space between the axel housing and radius rod bolt holes are folks allowing as this will change stance? ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1439844744.644945.jpg
     
  19. krylon32
    Joined: Jan 29, 2006
    Posts: 9,397

    krylon32
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Nebraska
    1. Central Nebraska H.A.M.B.

    When using 36 bones I help the clearance problem by using a Posie A style rolled and tapered spring with reversed eyes and a 44 inch perch width. The wishbone brackets I have made put the bones about 3/4 on an inch under the axle. I been using the stamped A cross member from So-Cal and I put adjustable ends on the front with a torque arm.
     
  20. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Thanks for your input krylon32. Those rear members from SoCal look really nice but I plan to use what I already have unless I'm compromising safety.

    Perhaps another way to look at this would be to ask how much compression I should expect in this particular spring I already have 29-31R-C.
     
  21. 34hardhead
    Joined: Jul 29, 2012
    Posts: 33

    34hardhead
    Member
    from Richmond

    I do not have measurements handy, but here are some pictures of my set-up.
    it is further along now. with a different master cylinder arrangement. master cyl mounts 121.JPG master cyl mounts 129.JPG
     
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  22. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Very nice work 34hardhead! So is that the same spring as I have? . Is your rear crossmember which looks awesome BTW; mounted in the same location as the original '34?

    I appreciate the contributions here very much!
     
    ls1yj likes this.
  23. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Posies provided the compression rates to me today - Thanks Kristopher!

    If the stock vehicle weight was 2460lbs what portion of that is the rear spring taking normally?
     
  24. Oh, man....I'm reading about 40 inches or less for model A spring widths and mine [with only 4 leafs] is 42.5" Been spending the afternoon measuring my car to find how high to set my model A rear crossmember to get the height I want in my mock-up photo in my avatar. I've got the car sitting on stands with the rear axle on stands at the height I want...gives me 2.5" from top of tire to inside of wheel well. I really need to know how much my stock A spring will stretch with the car's weight on it. And how long the rear shackles are, center to center so I can decide where to weld my spring hangers to the axle tubes...and how much model A crossmember to weld into my stock 34 crossmember to get my height right. I suppose I'll need to cut into my nice new trunk floor for the crossmember and to get clearance for the center of my quick change to trunk floor......at the ride height I have set up, I have 1 inch clearance.
     
    ls1yj likes this.
  25. 345
    Joined: Nov 8, 2012
    Posts: 161

    345
    Member
    from Michigan

    Rocky I hear you man. I did get the spring compression rates from posies but not sure if that helps you? I have seen leaf spring rates calculated as follows for a lbs/" figure.

    Any idea how much weight that rear spring is supporting?

    Leaf spring rate = (WN/12) X (1000t/L)3 ...(3=cubed)

    W = WIDTH OF LEAVES (inches)
    N = NUMBER OF LEAVES
    T= THICKNESS OF 1 Leaf
    L = LENGTH OF SPRING
    12 = A CONSTANT FOR LEAF SPRINGS
     
  26. burbanite
    Joined: May 31, 2006
    Posts: 188

    burbanite
    Member

    I assume WN should be W+N?
     
  27. Screw it...I wussed out by going with Qa1 coil overs.
     
  28. Pewsplace
    Joined: Feb 10, 2007
    Posts: 2,795

    Pewsplace
    Member

    I did the same thing as it is much easier to install, adjust and replace than the spring. It is also less expensive. The ride is excellent with coil overs in my experience but I'm 75 with a bad back and need a soft ride.

    IMG_0107.jpg
     
  29. Update" I used a model A spring and crossmember. Got the crossmember too high in the frame the first time and the car sat too low...moved the crossmember down to get a proper ride height. 34rarmepainted.jpg
     
    Tim and ls1yj like this.
  30. ls1yj
    Joined: Sep 14, 2011
    Posts: 472

    ls1yj
    Member
    from Kentucky

    [​IMG]

    Rocky, glad to see you saw it thru and fit the A spring in.

    Read thru this thread a couple times, and see most of the info relates to model A spring.... I’ve been told that the T spring is a swap in place of an A spring, and I’ve got a T spring I’m gonna try to fit...

    I also inserted a model A center section into a model 40 rear member... got it sitting 1” above flush with top of frame rails...my T spring measures 43.5” eye-to-eye at rest..

    Guess I’ll be shooting for 48”-48.125” perch width on the 36 bones

    Sent from my iPhone using The H.A.M.B. mobile app
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2018

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