Hello. I am looking for someone to walk me through the steps of a PPG acrylic lacquer paint job on a new bare metal Brookville body. I have sprayed enamel and urethane for years but have never sprayed lacquer. What primers, sand paper grit, sealers, etc....I know today's paints are better but I want to use lacquer. Thanks.
i painted the dash on my car using ppt lacquer. the prep was the same i do for all finish paint. sand the bare metal 180 grit, body work, epoxy primer, 3 coats filling primer, dry block sand 180, 3 coats filler primer again, wet sand with 400-600 grit, paint.
I learned to paint with lacquer and started out with it for the first few years of collision work. Seemed so hard to switch to the new stuff, which I do love now, but super easy to spray compared to newer paints. Dries super fast, blemishes can be sanded out easily, and all areas need to be buffed and polished for shine. Prep is not any different than the newer materials. Good prep equals good paint job.
The beauty of acrylic lacquer is if you make a blunder you wait for a while for it to dry, block it down and repaint.
I sprayed lacquer until acrylic enamel came out. I always just used plain old lacquer primer which was about all there was available. Lots of '50's cars still out there with the original lacquer on them.
You may hear from others that acrylic lacquer will crack and craze over time. If it does it wasn't applied or cured properly. I have been spraying nitro and then acrylic lacquer since the '60s. I painted the 3W in my avatar in 1999 and it still looks fresh. Since lacquer is solvent based it needs tooth to allow the solvent to penetrate the previous coats. The painting process takes 3 days, 3 coats per day. I spray 3 coats with the correct thinner and after it gasses off the next day wet block sand with 400. Spray 3 more and sand with 400, final 3 coats wet with a slow or medium thinner depending on the temperature. Wait a week at least and break the surface with 1200 wet to block it out. Now the critical part, by opening up the surface the solvents evaporate faster, don't touch it for at least a month, or longer, so it shrinks before final 1500 wet sanding and the polishing process. If the paint is sealed too soon, with polish or wax, the shrinkage will affect the surface and it will eventually crack and craze. I love acrylic lacquer but it's a time consuming process unlike the new catalyzed paints and clears. It's so easy to spray and when I was a kid I painted my friends cars in driveways and old garages. I wouldn't want to try that with the current paints. You don't need a 4k $ spray booth to produce a beautiful finish with acrylic lacquer. Good luck
All great points, Fogger. I have to agree. I sprayed my 37 Cadillac back in 94 and it still looks good. It does sit inside but most of our cars do. I plan on using lacquer when I paint my '30 this fall.
Most answers are pretty much correct. Lacquer will take many more coats than today's paints. If you have bodywork under it, and it was also covered in lacquer primer, it doesn't hurt to do 3-5 coats, let dry a day, then block sand and shoot another 3-5. Do this for a few days for a great paint job. The amount of thinner in lacquer swells the underbase, so when it flows, it's flat, but eventually shrinks down to show unevenness, or sand scratching. Several block outs and reshoots solves this. And definitely wait a month or so to cut and buff. In the old days, 600 grit was sufficient to cut it, as the lacquer was easy to buff out 600 scratches. But with today's higher grits, buffing will be easier. Old lacquer does crack and craze eventually. It gets brittle, the older it gets, and eventually fails. Maybe not so soon in areas that do not have severe changes in temperature, but cold and hot cycles will expand and contract it more, and especially thicker films, will crack in 5-10 years. They will hold up better if stored inside, even better if heated/cooled to consistent temps. Also lacquer needs more maintenance than modern paints. Keep it polished and waxed to prevent drying out, and dulling. It is not as chemically resistant, abrasion, and chip resistant as the modern urethanes, so try not to drop wrenches on it, either! It does have it's shortcomings, but it is beautiful, in return.
The caveats to lacquer today are more equipment related. New HVLP gravity guns are very efficient at transferring material. We'd read things like "...30 coats of hand rubbed lacquer..." and most of those were sanded away to level the finish. Today, with proper solvents and temps, you can spray maybe 12 coats and get similar film build. Not sure I subscribe to to 3 coats a day and the sanding and support work that has to follow. It can be done in 1 serving, maybe 2 for metallic and final clear. The solvent choice will be critical as will the relative humidity. Too fast, or short flash times in high humidity, a blush will appear as a grey cloud in the color. It may never go away, it may "bake out" in hot weather or a bake booth. Reduction, even with the new equipment, should still be around 150%, and this can be fiddled with to the operator's comfort zone. I like it to be the consistency of whole milk for solids, skim milk for metallic, just short of water for clear. Clear wants to be reduced a minimum of 200%. With PPG lacquer in a general condition area (75-80deg, low humidity) I always liked their DTL-875 lacquer thinner. They used to have really slow (105, maybe?) thinner/reducer too but no more. DTL-16 is a general purpose thinner and ok for cooler temps. You want slow even film build, lots of purge time between coats, and the use of a good sealer will "manage" the solvent penetration so as not to trap it in the substrates. It's true, lacquer dries fast in generic terms. It's still "wet" below the surface so any corrections along the way will require a patient attitude and a steady control of wet sand paper. Lacquer does not like water during application so wet sanding a boo-boo can cause a stain that might even show up later. Lots of air, keep it clean, keep clean rags/wipes handy so no surprise water drops get in the next coats. You do indeed want to open it up with something like 1000-1200 grit paper a couple days after it's applied. Gives you time to clean up the area and be certain no grit can enter the cut and buff portion of the show. To check if it's ready to be polished to perfection you want to do a thumbnail test. Just gently apply some pressure with your thumbnail to the surface. If it's hard, go for it. If it marks real easy, wait and maybe even sand it again to open a new layer as it will sometimes "seal up" again after that 1st sanding/waiting period. Now on to cut and polish. Many may disagree, but this old bastard has completely given up COMPOUND. The old tried n true DRX-16 and DRX-55, well I use it to show polish aluminum. SANDING will be the win-win for the final finish. We now have paper up to 5000 grit, where back in the day it was 600, compound, then corn starch (you old bastids like me remember that, right?) to remove swirls. I like to start a good lacquer finish with 1000. I then go to 1500 to cut the 1000 scratches down. You'll eventually see right through the water and know when it's done. From there I final sand with 2000 and it will begin to develop a shine at that point. All of these grits are done with a minimum of a semi-firm soft block, but my normal show finishes are actually blocked with a paint stick, using all the control and visual inspection used when blocking the primer surface. Bare hands will leave trails from every finger and make the final finish reflect "out of focus" from 20-30' away. Can't have that on lacquer. Once all done with the 2000 you can move on to 3000 grit, either blocked like the rest or, if you have the equipment and the nerve, use a Dynabrade short rotation orbital and a 3M Trizact 3000 pad. It will actually take the place of the prehistoric compound stage. A little bit of dish soap in the water (I use 1qt spritzer bottles and about 1/2 oz of soap) will add lubricant and resist paint loading up in the paper as you sand. This is a good time to mention that you use your ears as well as your eyes when sanding. Any gritty squeaks? Stop sanding and clean or change the paper. Those little squeaks are paint balls scratching the finish, and it's amazing how deep they can go. So, we're all sanded and clean, no minor scratches, time to polish. Get a fine wool bonnet for the buffer. New lacquer doesn't much care for foam pads. The final cut/polish with the machine can be done with Meguire's #3. That's right, #3. That finish will glow so fast you won't believe it. The real benefit is the lack of deep swirl marks. You'll get some, but NOTHING like compound does. It shines really fast and even takes out VERY MINOR scratches. There's several finish glaze products out there and most are pretty good, but I like something that has lots of "wet time" so it will act like hand glaze. Variable speed buffers help so you can keep good control and surface heat to a minimum. If you like a foam pad you want really low speeds. Once all done and glazed there's 1 final trick. Whatever you use to give that final hand polish GO IN ONE DIRECTION, NEVER GO IN CIRCLES. By rubbing it down that way (I like front to back) the last bit of swirl will only be seen in one place on the car and only in certain lighting. Final waxing and routine maintenance will eventually net a pure automotive finish that all the paint suppliers are trying to achieve with new 'thane based material. Cracks and such just mean too much film build from either above or below. Lacquer is brittle, urethane is pliable, or as an over-simplified analogy, lacquer is glass, urethane is plexiglass. I know this is a long reply but these steps have been developed over 40 + years as a finisher and seldom to never let me down. I've posted examples before so I won't bother now. Enjoy your refinish project. Nothing will reward you as much, nothing else on the car will EVER be the 1st impression like the finish will be.
well done the Highlander...your instructions remind me of advanced Ranger school...how much of your advice and guidelines apply to the authentic, real, new old stock nitrocellulose lacquers and concomitant thinners? I have three gallons of the old R&M and Acme black nitro that were stored properly under the best conditions. How to proceed?
If acrylic lacquer is glass, then nitro is crystal (!), and it gets very hard once dried and at optimal film build. It also requires dedicated care and feeding, even more than acrylic. Let's assume we're aware and willing though. 1st and foremost, shake that shit to death! Black solids are among the hardest once they settle in the bottom. I don't know how many years it sat untouched but rest assured if it's more than a few years it's settled. As far as solvents and process, much of the same as posted above applies. I've found nitro to be more sensitive to solvent pop, or better stated, when too much is applied too wet and it starts to purge solvent bubbles will appear on the surface. This also happens on acrylic but it can be a wee bit more forgiving. The harder a final finish is the better it will polish out and black nitro can be so perfect that you can't tell the color on a bright day. The sides look like grass or pavement, the top like blue sky and trees. You really have to be careful not to get too much on the surface, as in watch the film build closely. It's worth a practice panel to see just how far you can go. I'd also put it over a black substrate like a black epoxy sealer so that you don't need an excess amount for full coverage. As chop stated above, the finish expands and contracts with the metal and the base material. Like I said, it's crystal, it's sensitive to that. This is also a good place to say, YOU DO NOT NEED A LACQUER PRIMER. Fully cured 2K (fill in your favorite brand) urethane primer will not lift or suck up too much solvent, especially with a quality sealer over it to tame that penetration a bit. Although I'm a PPG guy, won't use anything but Shop-Line 202 primer or their Velocity 3055. Both harden well and fast, cure fast, sand easy, very little to no shrink used in moderation and over good work. The 3055 is about a $300 package, the 202 about $150-160. 3055 fills faster, is more dense, cures really quick, and in my use, ZERO shrinkage even over 80 grit AND a lacquer top coat. In all fairness that one was sealed with black epoxy too and the primer was about 6 weeks old once done. If you see a common theme in any paint advice it's drying time. Very important, never hurry, enjoy the job. FWIW, I've used PPG DTL-875 with nitrocellulose and had no ill effects. solvent gets the paint out of the gun, PERIOD. It's never meant to stay on the finish. Good luck, and if you use it I demand a post about it...!
Jocko, great advice on the use of modern equipment and methods, with lacquer! I haven't worked with it in a while and didn't realize the differences in using HVLP, and modern polish systems in using lacquer. Last job I did was nitro black, no clear, over HOK epoxy primer. Didn't have many problems with underbase things at all, not like the old "Prime and putty" days! Good tip an old timer told me about color sanding the nitro before buffing...a little soap, and some kerosene in the wetsanding water! Keeps the sandpaper wet, lubed, and paint from loading up on it, even after a month's dry time!
WOW! Thank you for the great in depth advice. Exactly what I was looking for. I hope to paint next month before winter is here. Once again thanks for taking the time to explain the process. I will let you all know how it goes.
Thanks Highlander! I am hoping to do my truck next weekend if the weather cooperates and there is some great advice here. When you say that a metallic and clear may require two days If you left things for a second day would one have to sand the surface before applying the clear? Can you sand a lacquer metallic? I know it's a no no with base/clear.
K13, I would sand it with a 1000 to level the 1st coats down. Metallic tends to look a bit "bumpy" up close just due to the peel effect of spraying. If you get it covered enough, a light sand will level that finish and then you can lay what those in the biz call a "drop coat". The effect I mention is more profound on lighter metallic, especially silver. What I do next is lower the pressure and reduce my color an additional 25%, then set the fan a bit larger. With no set pattern I gently shower that drop coat over the whole car. Again on lighter versions, you'll seem to detect a bit of off coloring when it's 1st applied and wet. Don't fret, don't worry, that solvent will purge out and that coat will lay down like nothing you imagined. I go "X", "Z", swirl, whatever, just getting a light mist of color over the whole car. Then it's right to clear on the next coats after the purge. I must admit that I've never done this on dark metallic colors, and in any form, over reduction of metallic tends to lighten it so I'd suggest just 1 coat of a darker color to blend the scratches from the 1000 then go to clear on the next ones. Still want a minimum of 200% reduction and plan on 8-10 coats with plenty of purge in between if you're using an HVLP gun. Old siphon feeds waste material to the air so that might require 15 or more to allow for good leveling later. It depends on the gun, and each operator knows how much he's using. If out of 3 gallons ready to spray you have a gallon left after you "think" it's enough, it might not be. That's over a qt, or 1/3 gal that didn't make it on the car. The purge time and dry time after is the key. Moving air helps a sanded finish dry out better because the "fumes" don't lay on the surface as it's drying. I mentioned "...use your ears..." when sanding in the above reply, well, use your nose too when checking it over time after it's been opened up. Chopolds, I'd heard of the kerosene thing before but never tried it. I was always worried about it soaking into the finish and then not being able to touch it up in the future due to a permanent fish eye effect from it. I once followed a restoration from some less than disciplined guys (ok, they were some friggen jamokes) and one of them (self-proclaimed master finisher) decided to sand the car with lemon oil, as used in furniture restoration/care. The paint surface was not able to be touched up in any way. Even water caused an effect, not wanting to stay on the surface at all, even where I was able to sand. Brilliant, huh? Were I to do another complete lacquer job (the last one was in '08) I would probably dedicate most of a week in shop time just to get it to final clear. Granted, that's total "show dog" shit, but then again that's all I do so... Glad to be of help fellas, and I'd like to see some topics or "build" type posts if you're going to do it. If i can help along the way don't be afraid to ask. Even if it's a day or so later, time is your friend with lacquer.
Not to worry about the touch up over the kerosene sanded finish. (BTW, ever use Butcher's Wax to wax a car? works good, and it does smell like kerosene!) About 10 years after I painted the car, the owner wanted to throw some charcoal metallic scallops on it, to change the looks. Normal prep procedures, and no problems at all. While the paint still looked great by then, I guess he got tired of the car, bought another old custom, and left it outside. Covered with a blue tarp. Brought it back to me a couple years later, with all these pimples in the paint. Guessing the trapped moisture really did a number on the nitro , esp since it wasn't being maintained at that point.
"...with all these pimples in the paint. Guessing the trapped moisture really did a number on the nitro , esp since it wasn't being maintained at that point." That's a good thing to bring up chop, what can happen in extremes with lacquer. This can also happen with acrylic because lacquer itself can be somewhat porous. UV damage from the sun makes that worse. If you break a dried out chunk of lacquer from an old can you can see it. While not as bad as lacquer primer, it's enough. But that "enough" will take wax and care products and hold it for some time. Enamels and urethane paints that are catalyzed link together to form something closer to a solid. Even a chunk of clear will break and show the porous nature of it in the break. Last thing about nitro and why it has it's own look, the binder that makes the paint has a color to it. If it were held up to the light it would look like a real pale beer or a gentle greenish gold tint. This does have an effect on the final color and that's an element often missed when trying to duplicate a genuine finish. Just a FWIW, nothing that has any effect on application.
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