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Technical 1929 Bentley coupe similar profile

Discussion in 'Traditional Customs' started by cerial, Jul 4, 2015.

  1. cerial
    Joined: Mar 3, 2012
    Posts: 116

    cerial
    Member
    from Michigan

    I would like some advise on finding cab similar to the profile shown below of a 1929 Bentley coupe. Preferably something somewhat common and stateside.
    [​IMG]

    Here is a 3/4 shot
    [​IMG]t

    I just need the profile from the door handle up. There is a couple hundred hours of metal work there.
    I need to widen the cab no matter what I do. I will be pretty much be building the rest myself. I am confident I can come close enough on my own to give the impression to many that it is somewhat original. But, if I can find a base for that curved roof line that will eliminate a massive chunk of labor.

    Thank you for any advise.
     
    The37Kid and kidcampbell71 like this.
  2. 2racer
    Joined: Sep 1, 2011
    Posts: 960

    2racer
    Member

  3. CadMad
    Joined: Oct 20, 2012
    Posts: 876

    CadMad
    Member

    Are you restoring an existing body or starting from scratch. Those slab sides and gentle rolls would be best done from scratch. The roof is fabric covered giving a little leeway.
    If you have an english wheel and ability then I dont see too much drama. . . just alot of time and love.
     
  4. CadMad
    Joined: Oct 20, 2012
    Posts: 876

    CadMad
    Member

    Just reread. Are you trying to replicate the roof or the beltline swages or both.
    For the swages you may need to make a die for a pullmax. . . if you have access to one.
     

  5. Beautiful shape. @The37Kid will like this post. As I'm sure a lot of people here. I love where you are going with this. This will get a lot of attention I'm thinking. @Ned Ludd too. I love posts such as this.
     
  6. Fine looking car.
     
  7. THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Joined: Jun 6, 2007
    Posts: 5,367

    THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
    Member
    from FRENCHTOWN

    I'm not above stealing whole roof panels from station wagons, mini vans, and the unsuspecting '50s era car roofs to get a near net shape. Maybe a Focus wagon, Sion or similar late model. Make some inner hat sections to establish the side-to-side profile and add support.
     
  8. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,934

    squirrel
    Member

    slightly bigger version of the images, hopefully lets you see a little better

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  9. That is the "Blue Train" Bentley- great lines!
     
  10. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    I'd love to know what your final plan is, think 2racer nailed the roof look with the '49-'52 Chevy fastback.. When you start the build thread I'll be following it. Bob
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  11. squirrel
    Joined: Sep 23, 2004
    Posts: 55,934

    squirrel
    Member

    A car from around 1930 has a mostly flat roof. The one in the pictures has a nice curved slope to the rear, but side to side it's still mostly flat. The fastback style cars from the 40s-50s had a very rounded roof, which would look out of place on a car from the era I think you're trying to build.

    You will probably end up making your own, or putting a lot of pie cuts into a 1930ish sedan roof.
     
  12. manyolcars
    Joined: Mar 30, 2001
    Posts: 9,176

    manyolcars

    it looks a lot like a Model A sedan with a roof chopped at an angle and no visor, and suicide doors
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  13. elgringo71
    Joined: Oct 2, 2010
    Posts: 3,823

    elgringo71
    Member

    A Chrysler Airstream looks kind of like that. image.jpg
     
  14. cerial
    Joined: Mar 3, 2012
    Posts: 116

    cerial
    Member
    from Michigan

    That picture is perfect. The angle really shows where the seams are on that real window panel. I can see how the roof line can be made out of 3 pieces that curve into the water drains on the sides made out of 4 pieces.I will bend the windows so that the glass sits atop

    Tools:
    English wheel
    Various curved pipes and dies
    Various hammers
    Die grinder
    Spot welder
    Welder
    Louver
    Never needed anything else


    Not exactly sure how I am going to do the frame at this point. I imagined that was a cover and not the frame itself. I thought they simply flipped with the C towards the outside and had a cover slid over the C. But, seeing daylight through there and noticing just how thin those lovers are has me scratching my head.

    You got it perfectly with the mostly flat sides.
    I am trying to enclose the wheels within the body extending the cab back where the trunk currently is. I will keep the same spacing between the front fenders. But, the entire body will have a long slopping wedge shape back to the outer wheels which will add a good amount of space inside the cab. From the side though I will not be changing the shape drastically.
     
  15. john worden
    Joined: Nov 14, 2007
    Posts: 1,827

    john worden
    Member
    from iowa

    Notice that the beltline slopes downward as it goes rearward. Love those bobbed rear "wings"
     
  16. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 1,130

    SR100
    Member

    What chassis/wheelbase are you using? That will determine the donor's suitability. The Airflow isn't common, but it's the closest match. You'll probably need the Chrysler Imperial two door, the Desoto shown above looks too short.
    36 Chrysler Airflow Imperial-Web.jpg
    In modern donors, consider the pre-2011 Dodge Magnum/Chrysler 300 Touring.
    2008 Chrysler 300c-Touring.jpg
    One other thing to keep in mind is the body's subtle taper inwards, which starts just behind the B-pillar. The body will look too boxy without that taper.
    [​IMG]
    Please do a build thread.
     
  17. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    We still don't know the size of this project, maybe a truck lid would supply the basic shape you are looking for. Bob
    [​IMG]
     
  18. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    Do a HAMB search for Fabric Covered Bodies and you will find a lot of info and photos, this old side shot of The Blue Train was there. Bob
    [​IMG]
     
  19. 50Fraud
    Joined: May 6, 2001
    Posts: 10,101

    50Fraud
    Member

    Steve Moal built a car for Eric Zausner a year or so ago which was apparently a riff on the Blue Train Bentley's appearance. It was made from a recontoured '33 Ford Victoria, and was undoubtedly an extremely expensive build, but the outcome looks very odd to me:

    429242_0whnmv8qiuue6ztgwk3vmr5hi.jpg

    At the other end of the spectrum, here's a streamlined T of unknown origin, but it appears to be an early attempt at an aerodynamic hot rod built be some young guys. It looks like it's probably a fabric body stretched over ribs, like an early airplane fuselage, and to me it's primitive but wonderful. Food for thought:

    AeroT.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
  20. You are too kind.

    But I agree with you about the old T.
     
  21. jdownunder
    Joined: Aug 21, 2007
    Posts: 334

    jdownunder
    Member

    Good luck in your journey
    I can see the roof line in so many modern car roof skins
    I love pre made tin skins
    J
     
  22. Chrisbcritter
    Joined: Sep 11, 2011
    Posts: 1,970

    Chrisbcritter
    Member

    Sloping roof that's fairly flat, doesn't taper at the sides too much and is easy to find - maybe Volvo 544 or VW Type 3 Fastback?
     
    Hnstray likes this.
  23. Saw this car close up a few weeks ago at the Cholmondley (pronounced chumly) Pageant of Power in Cheshire. It is awe inspiring. I have seen a replica using a modern BMW V12.

    As mentioned by the 37 Kid, this is a Wymann body. Built from ash with metal joints (so there are no traditional woodworking joints to squeak) and covered with fabric. By the time you have cut, shut and remade the roof off something else it might be easier to make your own Wymann style roof.
     
  24. The37Kid
    Joined: Apr 30, 2004
    Posts: 30,627

    The37Kid
    Member

    Thanks for posting the Moal '34 photo 40Fraud, sure would like a set of those fenders for my '29 Steelback project. Bob
     
  25. Kinky6
    Joined: May 11, 2003
    Posts: 1,765

    Kinky6
    Member

    Based on Blackjack's comments, do a search for a barn find late '20's Studebaker that showed up here on the HAMB a year or so back. Some creative stylist cut the top off a sedan and made a radical sloping fastback out of it. The construction was wood lath strips w/ rubberised fabric covering it. The photos showed some detail on how it was made. K6


    Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!
     
  26. murf 32
    Joined: May 30, 2013
    Posts: 70

    murf 32
    Member

    Ya I can see a vw beetle in there
     
  27. cerial
    Joined: Mar 3, 2012
    Posts: 116

    cerial
    Member
    from Michigan

    After finding the cloth thread referenced above and reading up on Weymann techniques. I am sold on fabric. I have made seat covers myself in the past and am confident I could build a body that would stand up to massive amount of road grime, derbies, and poking.

    Here is what I have in mind. This is just a quick reference model and has many flaws. Everything here except for the removable rear sides will be done in Dom steel. This is showing the "frame". You can imagine a series of bracing and bows to form the rest of the structure.

    [​IMG]

    The rear section (angler bracing) could be done with a tube roller to give the cab it's shape. This would provide the curved shape as well as add structure to protect my butt in a roll.

    [​IMG]

    The front section is simple yet gives a bit of aerodynamics.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    The "frame" rails are mid way up the cab. The frame rails will pass through the cab in the actual car. I am using front and rear leaf springs. The front and rear axes will be located where the X's currently are.


    I am thinking about using sail cloth. Although it is heavy. It is easily obtainable, takes a massive amount of abuse, and is uv resistant. The Body could be stitched tight to form the shape and slip over this frame in the same manner as a car cover. There would be various tensioners, cables, and bows to remove any slack keeping everything taunt.
     
  28. SR100
    Joined: Nov 26, 2013
    Posts: 1,130

    SR100
    Member

    Unless I am misreading this, you are using aircraft covering methods, not Weymann. Aircraft methods and sailcloth will get you economy car or racecar results, not a body to luxury car standards. The original coupe cost almost as much as a Duesenberg. The Weymann technique was conventional fabric bodywork except for the method of attaching the pieces of the framing to each other to prevent squeaking. The wooden framework is covered by chicken wire, muslin, cotton batting for padding and leatherette as the top layer. Each section is tacked down separately and the joins are cleverly hidden by mouldings and the drip rail.
    One of the chief criticisms of fabric bodies in their day was how hard it was to keep the fabric looking clean. Sailcloth will have thousands of tiny pockets to hold dust & minerals from rain water. It will be even harder to keep clean. There have been several 'Blue Train Coupe' replicas, perhaps there is a site with construction details.
    Your plan will produce a cool body, but it won't be very close to the original.
     
  29. Ned Ludd
    Joined: May 15, 2009
    Posts: 5,025

    Ned Ludd
    Member

    That said, a lot can be done with the Weymann principles if they are well understood. A much more durable body may be had by substituting some materials not available in 1930.

    Weymann-style framing joints aren't difficult to devise; the hardest is likely to be sourcing a suitable thin spring steel strap to make them out of. Use well-spaced screw fixings to keep the flex in the strap and not the screws, and maintain a gap of about ⅛" between adjacent timbers. Weymann joints really aren't anything more complex than that.

    Coachbuilders have traditionally used ash for dimensional stability, though it isn't a particularly strong nor durable timber. There are better choices today: I tend to lean towards afrormosia. Likewise timber treatments have also improved significantly. That's to say nothing about techniques like moon-phase harvesting which relies on the sugar content of wood sap varying with lunar cycles. Cut down the tree when the sugar content is least and there's that much less in the timber for various bugs to eat. But you try asking a sawmill about that :)

    There are also lots of new options for the covering. Flexible resins allow the use of common fabrics which would have become brittle if saturated with the older epoxies and polyesters. There are foams, breathable barriers, all kinds of things.
     
    kidcampbell71 likes this.
  30. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

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