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Projects FED with killer Flathead

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by fenderless, Nov 16, 2010.

  1. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Long time since I posted as life have made some drastic turns.
    After a long wait for the sleeve (Manchine shop did a very late order), we bored out the cylinder, to find that this cylinder was very thin on the side the caved out. According to the info that are published, French blocks can be bored to 3 7/16 with no problem. Well, be careful. We bored the cylinder out to 3.46875" to fit the new sleeve, the cylinder wall disappeared almost 1/3 around, on the side towards the rear of the block. with a 3 7/16" = 3.4375" bore, I would have had a wall thickness of 0.03125". And that is very very thin;)
    We have filled the block all the way up with some special epoxy. This epoxy binds to steel, so the sleeve should have been glued to the rest of the block. Finished off with JB weld to support the gasket better.

    Fast forward one week.
    Started off cleaning the block, then mounting new cam bearings. Next up was to take off all piston-rings, then putting inn all pistons & rods.
    Dropped the crank inn, then cleaning, inspecting and putting all rings back on. Slightly odd way to mount pistons.
    I have to dropp the pistons & rods from the crank side, as the big-end of the rods are larger than the bore;)

    Hope to put the valvetrain in a couple of days;)

    ................................................
    Taildragger&fenderless DSC_0302web.jpg
     
    loudbang likes this.
  2. Hey Kjell - glad to see your post . . . I like what you've done with the sleeve and believe that it stands a good chance of working for you. Given that you're running alky, I think you'll be okay as far as heat goes - but you'll soon find out!

    Drop me an eMail after you get it running and down the track, would love to know how well it works out for you. How many pounds of boost are you running (on that last run?). Hopefully all is well with you and yours - have a great time back at the track!

    I'd recommend doing a leak-down on the engine before your first run and afterwards - just to see how the cylinder seems to be holding up.

    Dale
     
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  3. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Thanks D. Good to get some confirmation that i do something right:) A leakdown test before and after is a great idea.
    Then I will know if it will hold up. Yes the Alky will make the engine abit cooler. I plan to run water in the heads, just to get more even temperatur on each cylinder. The Intake has proven to distribute the alcohol very good, but with no AFR read-out on all cylinder, I can not confirm a 100% even distribution. I have plans to buy an AFR logger, just to keep track of the fuel. But no fund just yet. I better run it on the ritch side as of now.
    Last time out, when we banged the cylinder, we had a manifoldt pressure of 21 PSI. approx 55% OD.

    ..........................................
    Taildragger&fenderless
     
  4. Hey Kjell - sounds good. As long as you're reading the plugs, you'll have some idea on your tune. When you start leaning it out a bit, then you'll need to really pay attention. It is really hard to have a good AFR reading with short zoomies, what you should probably think about is to initially get at least on EGT probe on whatever cylinder runs the hottest (which usually tends to be a rear one) - this can really help you prevent a disaster. We run EGTs on every exhaust port - as close to the block as possible . . . then we have a data logger that captures the data for playback. As you know, this stuff gets expensive (data logging computers, etc) - but you could go with just an EGT and a gauge to get started. I can't believe how thin your block was in that rear cylinder? Did you happen to sonic test the cylinders when you had it apart to record the thickness of all of the cylinders? I'd really LOVE to know the details - as I have been using my sonic tester on all sorts of blocks - just to get the 'truth' versus the ole wive's tales.

    Boost: 21 lbs is pretty heavy! If it was me, I'd lower my boost and get some runs in before I went back up to that level. I'd probably try to get my boost between 15 - 17 lbs for the initial set of runs (which will require a bit leaner pill) or it will be a pig.

    Take care, keep me posted after you make your first new runs!

    D
     
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  5. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Hey D. You are absolutly right, EGT messurement is the way to go. I will have to look at the funds;) Sorry we did not sonic test the block, my son did not have the right pick-up for the tester he had. I will try to get the right head and messure next time;/ As you say D, the Story of the French block, are not a 100% correct.
    I know that we are abit heavy on the boost, but I'm impatient and there is just a couple of races eatch season;) Pops is also something I NEED to consider!?;)

    Valvejob tomorrow:)

    /K

    ..........................................
    Taildragger&fenderless
     
  6. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Another evening in the garage;) Dagfinn and I put the pistons/rods in and gott all torqued down.
    Valvejob is a little time consuming, 15 of the 16 whent inn;/ The last one is a puzzle;)
    How many of you has managed to bend a valve in a Flathead???;)
    Dagfinn to the rescue, found a valve in his garage, so just need to grind it abit;)

    .........................................
    Taildragger&fenderless
     
  7. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Even better, a local speed shop hadthe same Manley race valves in Stock:) So we got all the stuff inn, and a friend came by yesterday to help, and we got it in the chassis, and mounted all the other stuff. By demand of Roger I m ade another dash today for the Manifold pressure and fuel pressure;) Tomorrow or Tuesday is fire-day:)

    new-dash-web.jpg new-dash-web.jpg Ready-web.jpg

    /K

    .......................................
    Taildragger&fenderless
     
    Hotrodmyk and loudbang like this.
  8. Hey Kjell who did your blower restraint need some close up pics........:D:D
     
  9. wrenchbender
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,337

    wrenchbender
    Member

    I was thinkin the same thing carl Looking good kjell
     
  10. axle
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 3,982

    axle
    Member
    from Drag City



    Excellent
     
  11. dragsled
    Joined: May 12, 2011
    Posts: 1,975

    dragsled
    Member
    from Panama IA

    Looking good Kjell , hope all goes well, Beth might get another shot at driveing Monday of Tuesday if the rain stays away, fingers crossed for both of us,, Tim Jones
     
  12. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Thanks guys:) The blower restraines are from DJ safety, DJ-141002. All the braktes are made by my very good friend and crewchef Roger J. :) Ok I had some of the ideas too;)
    Here are some Pictures. I hope they are understandable:
    lower-bracket.jpg Restrain-lower-bracket.jpg
    Lower Brackets are same for all four
    Upper-left-side.jpg
    Upper Left side
    Upper-right-brackets.jpg
    Upper Right side

    I had to restich the restraines, as I did not want to have the DJ logo showing;) finished off With some 3M alu.tape.

    Crewchef and Ass.Crewchef where here this evening, and we fired the Sidewinder up:) Sounded wicked. After letting it run for a short time we took a leakdown test. Less than 12% on all cylinders:)

    Tim, Hope you and Beth make some tests:) I will attend a race the last weekend of this month:)


    /K

    .........................................
    Taildragger&fenderless
     
    loudbang likes this.
  13. wrenchbender
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,337

    wrenchbender
    Member

    Thanks for the info kjell I was wondering how you done the mounts in the blower side cause I've not found the plate style that sandwiches between the injector and blower for a 4-71 they make them for a 6-71 and bigger that looks just fine to me your gonna have to toss that thing on a row boat and bring it across the pond someday the meltdown is in a month that should be enough time for ya lol
     
  14. Hey Kjell would it be possible to see some shots of your wheelie bar setup??? am starting mine now and would like to see others:D:D
     
  15. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Well Randy, The Sidewinder will not be shipped this year!;(
    Here is a short report from this weekend:
    Saturday morning, perfect weather, got out around noon for the first run. I was really tagged as the killer sounded like a wild animal. The burnout was perfect smoki'n the 12", staged inn an was ready just holding the transbrake inn, no wild rpms. When I let go of the button and flooring it did not move just over reved the poor old Flathead. pushing it back with some bad noise from the tranny or rearend. Back in the pits, we soon discovered that the rearend was broken. One carrier had let go, damaging the ring and pinion. With good help from my Swedish friend Bengan, we found a guy 40 min from the track who had a senter section with the right ratio. off we whent, the guy even mounted the spool from our rear end. back around 10 a clock in the evening. While getting some food, the crew mounted the new parts. and the dragster was ready at 11. Beer time, and bed.
    Sunday we was soo ready, had the time to take off the blower and manifold just to see if eveything was ok after the wild reving. No major damage, just a blown o-ring on the pop-off. Mounted all back, and it stood over just one round.
    When we finally got out, the starter made us start the engine to early, standing a waiting toooo long. But as I was about to shut it off, he pointed me to stage. And off we whent with a powerful pull of the starting line, shifted to second gear when a Big Bang hit me.
    Shut off and rolled to a holt. Back in the pits again, just to find out that he Killer now are DEAD. Blown Head gasket, welded the head out on number 4. have found 6 cracks in the block so far. ;( So now it's time to go back to the drawing board.........

    /K
     
  16. wrenchbender
    Joined: Sep 5, 2007
    Posts: 2,337

    wrenchbender
    Member

    Well damn kjell I was hoping for some low numbers and good times I sure wish I didn't know how you feel though lol you know they always run the best right before they blow up lol
     
  17. loudbang
    Joined: Jul 23, 2013
    Posts: 40,276

    loudbang
    Member

    Boy that is really bad news.
     
  18. So sorry to hear that Kjell some weekends suck.........
    Take your time, regroup, have a beer..... or three....... then keep on keeping on.
     
  19. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Thanks for the condolences;/ Who says racing a Flathead is easy, not Henry ;) I think i can get some blocks soon, just need to check the finances;) ...........!? Roger called and said that we can't give up now, sooo Roger more work is coming your way:)

    /K
     
  20. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Now it's time look ahead, so the new block is in the shop for some porting, looks like I will some other mods too. Actually I have two now, if we have time both block should be finished to next season. The plan is to use all the parts from the old engine into the new French Flathead. Paralell to this we are working on a 8BA block. On this block we are planning on building a new Full girdle set-up. The "new" french block has a lot of corrotion and pitting on the valve seats, so look like we have to change all 16 ;/ pluss one cylinder sleeve...... Stay tuned for those who like Flathead Racing ;)

    /K
     
    loudbang likes this.
  21. Hey Kjell - sounds like you have it double covered! I'm glad that you're taking the time to do it right - including the girdle. Whose girdle are you using and when you say "full length" - are you talking about covering the whole bottom of the block - kind of like a Donovan 417 girdle? Are you making it out of aluminum, steel or cast iron? Anyway, let me know - might be able to help you with some 3D CAD models/drawings.

    Take care!

    Today I'm firing up my hot 42 Merc engine in the 32 - has been 2 years to get here . . . can't wait to see if all/any of my experimental shit actually works or even runs. One big gamble on this motor! :)
     
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  22. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Thanks D. Yes I think it's a good idea to have a coulpe of blocks ;) Of course it would have been ideal to have two short-blocks, but that will cost me some ;)
    What I had in mind was that we make a full girdle, not the 5-pice version we use the Frenchie. As you say, same style as a 417 Donovan. I was considering aluminum, but as Roger suggested, make it in carbon steel. He suggested to make it from 5 pices, then weld it together, normalize it and line-bore it. What do you think? CNC aluminum? Strong enough? ;

    Regarding valve seats, have you used the ones Flathead Jack offers?

    Please post a video of the fire-upper of the Merc engine. Hope it works as you want :)

    /K
     
  23. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Max porting......! Hmm I really did messure.. ;/

    K DSC_0125web.JPG
     
    loudbang likes this.
  24. Model A Mark
    Joined: Apr 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,301

    Model A Mark
    Member
    from dallas
    1. Holley 94 Group

    ouch..
    how you gonna fix that ?
     
  25. 97
    Joined: May 18, 2005
    Posts: 1,982

    97
    Member

    just fill the block
     
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  26. Model A Mark
    Joined: Apr 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,301

    Model A Mark
    Member
    from dallas
    1. Holley 94 Group

    that would work ...
     
  27. Well Kjell we are looking forward to the future adventures of Killer. I think we are both on a serious learning curve here, making hp with a Flattie sometimes can be frustrating, but DAMN it sure is fun............... More T&T after the holidays!!!!
    PS. [​IMG] Happy Holidays
     
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  28. fenderless
    Joined: Mar 31, 2006
    Posts: 1,286

    fenderless
    Member
    from Norway

    Well, got some done today :) Fixed the hole in the runner, and finished one side, just some small ajustments left.
    Marry Xmas and a Happy New Year to all :)
    /K
     

    Attached Files:

    loudbang likes this.
  29. Model A Mark
    Joined: Apr 30, 2008
    Posts: 1,301

    Model A Mark
    Member
    from dallas
    1. Holley 94 Group

    nice work, so how did you fix the hole ?
    you dont run water ?
     

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