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Project 29 Tudor in Mass.

Discussion in 'Traditional Hot Rods' started by Mikel50, Apr 17, 2015.

  1. Neat old car, Not too bad, just fix one thing at a time and you are right to start with the frame. Cut off those unneeded plates that are welded on the outside of the frame rails, grind it up nice. then start on that rear crossmember/ kick up. Section the rear or the crossmember that comes back from the center to taper it down to the same size as the frame and reattach. After you get started it won't look so bad.
    And keep ther spring in front front axle set up. That is what I run in my "30 tudor. just get rid of that welded in front crossmember.
     

    Attached Files:

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  2. Mikel50
    Joined: Mar 30, 2015
    Posts: 1,108

    Mikel50

    You guys are great !!

    Thank you for reassuring me what I have is a great start.

    I was a little but taken aback when I pulled the tub.
    That being said, I'm not about to give up on it. The fun is just getting started.
    I spent some time this am going over everything again and started sketching some changes and getting a stock list put together while making measurements and pictures as I went.
    I will definitely be removing the added crossmember they added and plan on running the factory one with the spring in front axle. I want to get a lower stance in front but need to retain the existing tub as it sits on the frame (no channel) so I can run a backseat for my kids (reason for the sedan).
    The car came with quite a few part so I will post up pictures of those once I get them out of the boxes.
    I'm planning on starting the remainder of the tear down this week and start removing the unnecessary brackets.
    I will post up pics as I go along and be asking lots of questions.

    Thank you again for your comments.

    Mike
    The hotrod newbie
     
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  3. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    DSCN0279 (Medium).JPG DSCN0280 (Medium).JPG DSCN0281 (Medium).JPG

    Here is a 30 Chevy chop/channel roadster pickup built in 59/60 in the Boston area of Mass...


    The kid worked in the navy shipyard and knew how to weld :) ...and knew where to get some steel. he,he He did a super nice job of boxing the front frame and front frame horns IMO.

    He used the 37-41 spring ahead to get it low, but it is very unusual to see a spring ahead with a "dropped axle", to get even lower.

    He left the original Chevy front crossmember, but used a piece of heavy wall channel for the spring mount, then used steel plates to blend the channel to the chevy crossmember.

    another unusual feature is that he made hairpins grafted to the 37/41 bone yokes. Can't recall ever seeing that before on old rods. Also running cross steer which is also unusual.

    The whole car is unusual, and that's why I like it so much.

    I bought it from the builders youngest son who wasn't born yet, when the car was left to rot in a dirt floor building. He found two 35mm color slides of it being built, but I don't know what radiator/or shell style that his father once had. Radiator placement is an issue with spring ahead.
    .
     
  4. mike bowling
    Joined: Jan 1, 2013
    Posts: 3,560

    mike bowling
    Member

    It's a Model A frame that's been boogered up bad. Cheapest way out? Get a good, stock, original "A" frame (150 bucks +/- ), box it and start over. You don't need "K" members and all that crap either ($$$$). Pull it out and sell it. That motor is 85 hp stock , and if you spend 5 grand on machine work and parts, it might put out 100hp. They are torq monsters , but short on performance without taking out a second mortgage. Put in a center crossmember to hang the tranny, throw in some bracing and you're off to the races. That said , with a Model "A" (which weighs nothing), that's a fine motor to use , and a great start to a cool hot rod. Believe none of what you read and half of what you see ; in other words, all advice is well intended , but pick and choose what works best for you. Where in Mass. are you? Lots of HAMBers in Mass! Good luck with it- I'm following!
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2015
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  5. volvobrynk
    Joined: Jan 30, 2011
    Posts: 3,587

    volvobrynk
    Member
    from Denmark

    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1429558255.655844.jpg
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1429558289.057031.jpg
    Start here, check your frame. If it's reasonable, fix the fear crossmember, and do something about the rear end of the x-member.
    But all is do able. But remove the extra stuff that there is no use for.

    But that x member looks good to me!

    There looks to be a slight twist in the frame, check if you measure the same on the top side, as the underside.

    And if the frame is good the rest will follow. But a good a frame, good 21 stud and a Tudor. It's gonna be a great rod.
     
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  6. wheeldog57
    Joined: Dec 6, 2013
    Posts: 3,181

    wheeldog57
    Member

    Great start man, good luck. Build it the way YOU want. You already have more to start with than most. Take on step at a time and even a small achievement is huge if you haven't done it before. Many of us model a guys around willing to help
     
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  7. 32 bowtie
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 298

    32 bowtie
    Member

    Not sure where in Mass you are but keep an eye out for the Gathering of the Faithful in October. It is in Rochester,MA and has a ton of guys with Old fords and flatheads. Typically stuff for sale and a whole lot of knowledge in one place. Good luck, subscribed!!!
     
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  8. Mikel50
    Joined: Mar 30, 2015
    Posts: 1,108

    Mikel50

    I'd love to see more pics of the truck. Sounds like he did some pretty cool things with it.
    I have a few radiator questions because the shell/radiator mine came with doesn't fit between the rails like all I've seen on here. Not sure if it's a different year or a truck radiator I have.
    But that's a long ways away and not a real issue at the moment.
     
  9. Mikel50
    Joined: Mar 30, 2015
    Posts: 1,108

    Mikel50

    Thanks wheeldog I'm pretty confident I can get through it all, I am really interested in picking everyone's brains and learning the 50-60 style mods and possible donor cars to look for to pick parts from.
     
  10. Mikel50
    Joined: Mar 30, 2015
    Posts: 1,108

    Mikel50

    Thanks 32 bowtie !

    I'm located in Middleboro Ma about 15 minutes from Rochester...that sounds like a great event and I will most certainly be looking out for it.
    The big swap meet at the comcast center is coming up soon so I'm looking forward to that event in May and heading there with a pocket full of money looking for Parts to add to my build.

    So far I have (My car came with)

    Body
    Front (fiberglass fenders)
    Rear Henry ford fenders
    Wood bow kit
    New vinyl top
    Steering column / wheel
    2 bucket seats from ? But they're pretty cool looking.
    Radiator and shell
    Headlights and brackets and a box of random parts that I have no clue what they are.

    So I'm definitely off to a good start.
     
  11. Mikel50
    Joined: Mar 30, 2015
    Posts: 1,108

    Mikel50

    I measured the frame yesterday and at the X member measuring across the top of the frame is 30"
    Measuring across the bottom of the frame at the X member at the same point it's 31.25"
    So the top of the frame rails are squeezed in.
    I think if I cut the welds at the outside ends of the two top plates that were added to the X member, I might get lucky and be able to spread the top of the rails back out to square and re weld when they're plumb.

    Thank you for the image, I ordered the Tardel book yesterday so I'll be reading up as I go.
     
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  12. general gow
    Joined: Feb 5, 2003
    Posts: 6,407

    general gow
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    Mike, I'm in East Taunton, and I'd love to come by and see what you have, see if I can give any advice or help, and see if maybe I have some stuff to help you get that project on track. I'll PM you my number and we can see what our schedules look like.

    Mark
     
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  13. NashRodMan
    Joined: Jul 8, 2004
    Posts: 1,989

    NashRodMan
    Member

    Hey Mike,
    Welcome from over here in Mattapoisett. Monday nights you should check out Plumb Corner in Rochester. I don't know when they start but it should be soon. Just a bunch of car guys with cool cars getting together put on by the club Rochester Road Kill (I think). Good luck with the build.
    Paul
     
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  14. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    I think you scored an old Hot Rod frame. The welds are ugly because stick welds often are and that's what was likely used. Thy look OLD and if you don't see evidence of cracks, they're probably fine and have good penetration, so don't be afraid of them. I'd be inclined to leave most of it alone.

    What you should be measuring for is square. Have you taken diagonal measurements yet?

    Don't go cutting until you have a solid and complete plan. Measure twice. Read the Tardel book entirely before you get into making changes. That frame was probably run exactly how it is at some point.

    That said, as interesting as that late crossmember up front is, You might be better off adding box tube like @F&J is showing you or a T-Bucket type perch off the stock crossmember if you're keeping the spring ahead you've already got (which I would). The alternative would be to get different perch pins and go spring-over (I wouldn't).

    I'd ditch the fenders (sell them) and go open wheel personally. The top parts are a major bonus. What's the column/wheel look like?

    If you leave most of it as it is, go with a low highboy, you'll be on the road sooner and you can always bring'er back in the garage for revisions!
     
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  15. general gow
    Joined: Feb 5, 2003
    Posts: 6,407

    general gow
    MODERATOR
    Staff Member

    @NashRodMan not to sidetrack things too far, but i heard the plumb corner cruise isn't allowed to use that space anymore, paul. have you heard anything about that?

    mike, if you haven't received a PM before, look for the red envelope in the top right side of your screen. click on it and it will take you to your messages.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2015
  16. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    We did not know you had full fenders. You probably should not use the spring ahead.

    Your 33-36 axle would need to be dropped though. Then use a 32-34 reversed eye spring "over the axle", by using the appropriate perch bolts through the bones. Then trim off the old hangers out front.

    If General Gow or Patamanta are nearby, they can tell /show you what perches, etc, that you need to get the axle set up.
     
  17. Mikel50
    Joined: Mar 30, 2015
    Posts: 1,108

    Mikel50

    I have no intention of running fenders. They will be up for sale for sure.
    I like the open wheel look much better.
     
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  18. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Hot damn, speaking my language now!

    Where you at in Mass? I'm in Woburn. If you decide you gotta chop those spring hangers, I've got a pair that are already cut I'd trade you. Uncut hangers are getting rarer each time someone cuts'em. I still think you should run with them though and just make sure the spring is located properly. I'd imagine there may be way more leaves than you need in that pack right now too. That spring is meant for a heavier, later car and your A probably barely makes a creak in it.
     
  19. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    ...and the longer front spring could be made to ride better than a spring above , if you keep it spring-ahead :)
     
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  20. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    There was a discussion somewhere on the spring in front East Coast style. I'll try to find it. You can get way low without a dropped axle that way and in the weeds with one.
     
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  21. NashRodMan
    Joined: Jul 8, 2004
    Posts: 1,989

    NashRodMan
    Member

    I didn't hear that (about the Plumb Corner cruise) but I'll look into it.
     
  22. NashRodMan
    Joined: Jul 8, 2004
    Posts: 1,989

    NashRodMan
    Member

    Update...no change in location for this cruise. Starts next Monday.
     
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  23. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

  24. Mikel50
    Joined: Mar 30, 2015
    Posts: 1,108

    Mikel50

    I removed the motor from the chassis this afternoon and took some measurements according to the plans/diagram and it's good. Not perfect but I wouldn't expect it to be.
    Definitely happy with the way it looked with the added angle iron removed from the side rails
    Here are a few pics of the column and wheel.
    It appears it's a 17" 4 spoke wheel but it's a two keyed shaft and the column has a spline on it so clearly they're not of the same make or model.
    I'd like to run wheel so it looks as if I'm going to be looking for a column if I can't mate the two.
    ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1429666841.625178.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1429666855.883769.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1429666869.995977.jpg ImageUploadedByH.A.M.B.1429666893.498158.jpg
     
  25. Mikel50
    Joined: Mar 30, 2015
    Posts: 1,108

    Mikel50

    Thanks patmanta for the east coast link
    I emailed it to myself so I have easy access to it. Some cool cars in there ...
    I'm located in Middleboro btw
    How many leafs can I run In my front spring and still have a fair amount of travel ?
    I counted 6 in there now.
    I plan on removing the added crossmember for sure and putting the spring on the original crossmember.
     
  26. 32 bowtie
    Joined: Aug 23, 2009
    Posts: 298

    32 bowtie
    Member

    The Gathering is moving to the fair grounds this year, too many complaints from the Plumb Corner plaza. I'm sure we will hear more as it gets closer!!
     
  27. F&J
    Joined: Apr 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,222

    F&J
    Member

    If you will use the original front crossmember for the spring, then you can't use the later wide front spring that you have now. Go back to post 46 for info on springs..and note that you will have to have your axle dropped.

    The column looks like stock Model A to me
     
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  28. Dave50
    Joined: Mar 7, 2010
    Posts: 1,751

    Dave50
    Member


    Frank can he use my mor-drop axle and spring???
     
  29. patmanta
    Joined: May 10, 2011
    Posts: 3,872

    patmanta
    ALLIANCE MEMBER
    from Woburn, MA
    1. MASSACHUSETTS HAMB

    Don't get too carried away removing stuff just yet. Every time you remove something, re-measure the frame to check if it's still square; that matters more to the car than how it looks!

    Show us some updated pictures of the frame and tell us what the measurements you took were. What's "not perfect" mean in this case? Are you coming up 1/16" off or a half?

    I think you're down near @general gow territory down that way.

    How many springs or how few? You're getting into the territory of redesigning your front suspension entirely now. If you keep the spring you've got, it has to be in front like it is (too long to go over the axle). If you put the spring in the stock xmember, you move your axle back behind the crossmember which means you gotta move the wishbone mounts back too. You also then have to make sure your axle stays clear of the engine under peak load. This will shorten the wheelbase and push the nose out beyond the centerline of the wheels, which was a look presented by some East Coast rods, but there's a lot of mixed opinions on the look and it can be tougher to get your proportions just right IMO.

    To keep the wheelbase intact, you will need a new, shorter, spring, perches, possibly wishbones, and maybe even be better off with a different axle. If you want to run it with what you've got, I strongly recommend just doing @F&J showed you. Otherwise you've got a lot of parts and work ahead of you instead of just a piece of box tube.

    [​IMG]
     
  30. Mikel50
    Joined: Mar 30, 2015
    Posts: 1,108

    Mikel50

    I am about 15 minutes from general gow.
    I'll retake the measurements today an take pics as I go.
    I only removed the 6 chunks of angle iron on the outside of the frame. Nothing else.
    Each piece was about 8" long but they were already cut w a torch at one point in time.
    So my confusion towards the front crossmember is this.
    I posted up pics originally and a few people said ditch the added crossmember and use the orig one.
    I completely understand now that you've broken it down for me.
    I do want to keep the spring ahead but was under the assumption I could just move it back to the orig crossmember.
    Thank you for explaining it to me.
    I guess it really doesn't make much sense to remove it and replace it with square tube if ultimately I'm going to end up with the same thing.
    If prefer to retain the crossmember as it is, due to the fact it's how they built it back in the day.
    It was simply due to a few guys saying ditch it I thought I could.
    Thanks for reposting the pic because I didn't see the square tube crossmember the first time.
    I honestly didn't know what I was looking for, now I do.
    Ty
    Mike
     
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