Technical REV IT UP AND DUMP THE CLUTCH!

Narrowed stock axles will twist off at the splines with some bite/power/wheel hop, even 31 splines..Good thing I had a Detroit Locker and was able to drive the 25 miles home; twice, then got a set of axles from Strange, smart I didn't wait for the third time.....Moser, Currie, little over $300.00....They will/can make them to length you need or might be slightly cheaper to get cut to fit axles and cut them to length your self with chop saw..Oh, since I see the wheels up [jealous me] and you have a 72" wheel base [if I remember right] I would be real nervous with no wheelie bars .....

 

Thanks guys. Been trying to knock the stub out from the other side, I can get a 3/16" rod past the spider shaft but so far not budging, splines must be twisted. Too lazy to pull the pumpkin today. Did some surfing, I see the cut to fit axles but it looks like they can only be cut down to about 25", I need 18-22".

 

Yeah, I got really proficient at dropping third members to fish the twisted-off chunk of splines out. I see the other axle has some twist in it too; it would have been next....
One reason yours broke because they turned the axle diameter under the minor diameter of the splines. If turned to the major diameter then just cut the splines a bit long they were quite a bit stronger. The factory axles were also surface-hardened after splining, a step that was probably skipped here.

 

Those axles may have been welded and recut, there is no reason to turn them down to any less than od of splines, double no-no....The axles can not be heat treated again, type of material and method of original heat treating...Hardness depth goes from about .200 at splines and tapers to none at the bearing seat area so when axles get real short the turning down to spline od and the deminishing depth of hardness results in almost none..Blowby them is short axles!! Ya otta get a discount!! I used to reach in with a long [not so long for you] shaft big pick up magnet, took a little aiming as longest/shortest 29/25 but lucky the splines were never stuck...

 

Watching Nascar today and someone broke an axle, the crew tried to knock it out the other side, the copycats. Renewed my interest in getting the rest of mine out but the only things skinny enough to fit past the spider gear shaft just bend, it's jammed in there pretty good. They had a spool I think, and a big old bar. I suppose even if I knocked it out it would just fall into the housing anyway. I could have pulled the 3rd member out twice now in the time I've wasted...

 

Hey! Pulled the 3rd member, how do you get the spider shaft out of these trak loks? Can't see the ends. I should just be able to knock the axle piece out even if I just get around the shaft with a small punch, right? I am looking at the end of the shaft, correct? Well, can't see much from the photos, I guess the shaft is under the ring gear. I am going to try and hammer the axle stub out from around the shaft, there can't be anything else blocking it...

 

Pulled the differential and pinion, there looks to be a pin instead of a bolt holding the spider shaft it? Blind hole at one end. How's that come out?

OK, looks like the whole dang thing has to be split. What a pain.

 

Sorry for chiming in too late!
I know somebody that spent a week trying to knock out a broken axle [open diff 2 spider] we tried to tell him that he is hitting the pin holding the spiders , but he wouldn't listen

As for your axle problem , if you're going to shorten another then you might as well re-weld the broken one.
Now here is the secret . Get both of them Heat treated and shot peened afterwards.
Most of the time the weld doesn't break , but the axle beside the weld.
If you've ever hardness tested a weld you will understand why, the weld will anneal the parent material.

Heat treating and shot peening will address that issue [especially heat treating]

I've cut'n'shut 3 axles into 2 to widen a rear end for a car transporter. 15 years later this is still going strong

 

The center of the splines is soft [well should be] so you can drill and tap the stub and use a slide hammer... you can stick an air hose at other end to blow chips out, may need third hand..Quicker would be to go in the stub with an arc welder, get the arc going and stick the rod, hook slide hammer to rod...DO NOT weld anything back together...If a shortened axle could be heat treated at all then Currie or Moser would have done it....

 

Lucky you that side has the two splines, one on gear and one on disc hub, may be they are not in alignment now so there is an inner lock..Maybe push in just supporting the outer hub, gently..Remember to install an axle in that side when re assembling to keep splines aligned, virtually impossible to do once assembled..

 

Currie and Moser do heat treat their axles [they prefer to do the whole thing]
They are manufacturers, and market sentiment dictates their products.

It is almost impossible to sell Cut'n'shut axles because of the reputation from all the hack jobs out there


The likes of Liberty's gears have been welding Pro-shift and Face-plates on their racing gearbox conversions for years,
Welding and Heat Treating is very common in OEM manufacturing.

It's just a little bit more advanced than the average Redneck Hillbilly Cowshed Engineering.

If Pauls V860 engine made 100Hp at 3600RPM this = 145ft/lbs torque
x 3.5 diff ratio x 2.6 first gear ratio = 1319Ft/lbs at the axle which ain't much.

This torque should launch his 1500lb rocket at 0.87G if it hooked up [in 1st]

 

Got it apart, Seb hit the nail on the head. I had no idea there were two gears splined to the axle. And thanks for the tip on aligning before assembly, I probably would have and put it back in the car and had another pissed off moment. There are a couple of rear end shops local, I'll call them tomorrow and see what they can do for axles, otherwise I'll just cough up the $400 and order from the experts.

 

""Currie and Moser do heat treat their axles [they prefer to do the whole thing]
They are manufacturers, and market sentiment dictates their products.""

Yes on a new built axle not on a shortened one..I have had them do several for my pulling garden tractor, about 18" long..everyone I see for sale has a warning label about use...

""Welding and Heat Treating is very common in OEM manufacturing.""
Yes, profound statement..

Liberty and such that do face plating, etc do not do heat treating after the welding; they know what weld process to use and it [the weld] only holds the item in place, has very little to do with torque retention..Heat treating an item thats already heat treated is not a simple task and spline and gear tolerances will not stay in spec, regrinding would be necessary...

BLOWBY...Keep the axle in during and untill carrier is all together, ring gear on and ready to go in to chuck, sort of repeating maybe but don't think I stressed the keeping it in [] the whole time of assembly......

 

I get my custom axles from Strange and have for a long time. if you get axles from them and intend to actually drive the little beasty get the Street Strip axle, the race axles have a tendency to break the flanges off on a street driven car.

Moser or Dutchman make good axles. I think that Dutchman are the most affordable.

By the way if you are snapping axles your tires are too big.

 

Sucks it broke, but the wheelie picture is pretty cool! Nice you documented the "launch".

 

So is my gut. Broke the drive side... Wow only $300 for the Dutchman axles.

Yeah everyone asks, when they see how short the truck is, does it wheelie? It was time to find out. Now to make it reliable. The T5 may be next.

 

My last set of Strange were 400 that was with my discount and was in the '90s.

I buy from Strange for several reasons, the discount helps and of course they make or have made a good product and most important is that my missus says that it is the only way I will ever get a little strange and still have a garage to wrench in.

 

I put a set of Strange in back in 74', dealer/my cost was $300...I don't know if they had street/strip back then but after three years on the track and maybe 40k on the street they're still in one piece. Get a little rambunctious on the twisties one in a while..Got to say that compared to a lot of other things the axle cost hasn't gone up too bad...

 

Glad my idea worked, but on another thought and not a good one but it wouldn't hurt to have the rear axle checked for straightness..An alignment shop that does four wheel should be able to tell you where it is...Or you can make bushings for the carrier bearings and axle bearings with an id to get a long [not too long in your case!] bar through to see where everthing is..Too bad your on the left coast [or I'm on the right] as I have everything to check from back when I was doing a bunch of narrowing..

 

Thanks for the help. I am ready to put the ring gear back on, is there any special way to line up the clutch plates? Do I just put the whole stack in the drive side and hope for the best? Oh wait, there is a pin hole in the carrier and slots in the steel plates, stick a pin through there?

 

I will assume you have a equa-loc limited slip, steel plates have five ears, two with slots, should be two 3/16 holes in case..You must tap the ring gear on case, use couple bolts for a lining holes, cross pin already in..prop on bench with wood or use a vise with gear teeth facing down..put side gear/hub combo on pinion gears, thrust washer..
Manual talks about two 3/16 holes in differential case , place steel plate so slots in dog ears are timed to the holes...Then a bonded plate that has the inner teeth making sure they mesh with hub, then steel plate, next bonded plate and continue "stacking till last steel plate in stalled..then the one or /two belleville springs con cave side towards the steel plate, centering on plate....then put cover on and using two 1/8" pins inserted through all wiggle around till cover drops in place, get ring gear bolts started [clean threads and bolts, use blue loc tite] insert axle and tighten evenly going cross pattern to torque specs, remove pins...I have hunted all over and can not find torque spec for ring gear bolts, I think 60#...Carrier bearings 20# to adjust back lash but final torque can't find yet..

 

Well only took me an hour...60# for ring gear bolts and 60# for carrier bearings...Lube the bearing cone and cup od so they can slide when adjusting back lash..yell when you get that far..

 

Forged axles, solid u joints and sleep better at night.

Personally I overbuild my cars to take abuse and live. I'd rather have the hp robbing weight of a c6 (for example) over a c4 because they are so damn tough. Just make more power is my motto. Then I'm relaxing at the drags between rounds or out cruising having fun rather than sweeping up parts and trying to wrench on something else that busted.

 

Thanks a bunch Seb. I have the trac lock back together, a bit fiddly. I had left the adjusters attached to the caps in the hope I could just plop it back in the housing without adjusting but they fell apart as I was plopping. At that point I realized the pinion was tight, I need a new crush sleeve, didn't check it when I removed and refaced the yoke for the parking brake disc. So it's on hold again, but at leas the carrier is assembled.

4thh, yeah I figured a 9" on this car would be overkill, and the 8" came up cheap. I still think it's probably OK with better axles. I really expected the T5 would break first. Hate to have to switch to a 4 speed, the overdrive is great.

 

Your welcome..I just hate it when things fall apart when your plopping..

 

I just purchased a Liberty TKO600 that has been "Face Plated" in all the gears, and it has definitely been heat treated [ I paid extra for shot peening ]
To heat treat gears it is necessary to anneal them first before heat treating them.

I did this years ago when we cut'n'shut a M22 by swapping the input gear with the countershaft drive gear [to speed up 1st/2nd/3rd]
I put 650 ft/lbs torque through that box in a harsh road-racing environment for years.

Run-out from the welding was more of an issue that the heat treating process.
It is not something that can be done at home with a gas torch.

Pauls axle is now history because of where it is broken. I would guess that it was approx. 3/4" away from the actual weld.
If you do a brinell hardness test on the axle you would understand why it breaks beside the weld.
If it was properly heat treated ,it would have not broken

 

Paul , do you get Toyota Hiace vans over there? [or Hilux utes? with the G series rear ends ]

They have 33 spline axles which we shorten and re-spline into 9" rears . They have the same PCD

 

whats a clutch?

 

So what would be the proper heat treatment for a shortened stock axle??

 

Round tubular knitted item about a foot long, girls used them in the old days to keep their hands warm...