Technical Winters quick change axles and brakes install ??

I received my Winters Nostalgia Quick change which is assembled with the tubes in place.
I also received a 11" drum brake kit, complete loaded backing plated and drums.
Here is my dilemma.
The axles are not installed and I have no idea of the order of assembly for the axle end bearings, and the drum brakes.
The bearings are the big ones they refer to as "Torino" and they came with a couple different thicknesses of spacer rings as well as the typical U shaped bearing - axle retaining plates.

To complicate things, of course one axle is 1/2" longer than the other and I'm also not sure which side they go on.
I really wish they (Winters or Speedway) had provided a diagram showing order of assembly of all these components.
Please forgive my ignorance on this and any help you can provide to get me on the right path would be appreciated.
I have searched extensively here and online and have not come up with the needed info.
Winters does not have anything in their online stuff and neither has Speedway.
The lack of information is frustrating.
I can't call Winters tech guy because he is off at a trade show till next week.
Any Winter QC experts out there ??
Larry

 

Since the axle assembly is symmetrical, the need for different length axles is because the differential is off set inside the gear casing.
Try sticking the axles into the axle tubes until they bottom out.
Only one way will give you equal axle stick out.

 

Larry,

Winters Street Rod catalog,
"Please Note: When assembled, axle will be 1/2” longer on left side."

To double check, slip a tape measure in and catch the end of the splines in the side gear. Measure to housing end. Left should be longer than right.
My guess it that the spacer rings are to adjust the offset for the two styles of bearings. The 'Big Ford' (1/2" bolts) has a 2.36" offset the Torino has a 2.5".
You didn't say how thick the spacers are, but my guess is that one is about .140" thicker than the other. You probably need the thicker one.

The order of assembly on the axle is:
1. spacer (if required)
2. bearing
3. lock ring (looks like a spacer, but is a press fit on the axle bearing surface, usually about 3/8" thick)
Bruce

 

Thanks Bruce, there are actually 2 "rings" per side, one is very thin 3/16" or so and has a slightly rounded inside chamfer on one inside corner.
The other ring is likely the bearing lock ring which like you said is about 3/8" thick.
I'm probably wrong in referring to them as spacers.
The other thing is that there is a groove on the bearing's outside surface, and I'm not sure of the purpose or what the orientation of that should be when the bearings are pressed onto the axle.
Seems like I'm going to have to wait and call Winters on Monday.

 

The groove is probably for an O-ring seal. Not really needed.
My guess is that Winters includes the spacers required for your combination of parts. If you had ordered the 'Big Ford' housing ends, you would have received no spacers. I think the chamfer would go to the axle flange side to allow for any radius there.

 

Sounds right to me. The axle seal is actually inboard of the bearing on these units so an O ring on the bearing would be redundant.
As far as the "Big Ford" part goes, they say that the bearings are "Torino" and that the axle takes the "Big Ford" drum brakes which I also ordered.

 

The lock ring spacer 3/8"!! Heat it up with a torch when everything is assembled correct and it drops right on. You have to cut them off once installed. So one time only.


Ago

 

I think I have it pretty much figured out. Going to put a call in to Winters tech on Monday to confirm if I have the right idea.

 

All good advice. I am surprised it didn't come completely assembled. I never heat the lock ring – just press it one. You will need to put some grease on the axle shaft prior to pressing on the bearing and lock ring. Any competent automotive machine shop can press them on for you.

 

This has been resolved. I decided to go ahead and make up a mock up "bearing".
I used some plywood, hole saws and a piece of 1 1/2" black ABS plumbing pipe to make it.
A very close to exact sized "mock up bearing" that I could slip on the axle and assemble the new drum brake to see how everything fit. Perfect.
What I discovered is this. The bearings can be pressed onto the axles without any spacer.
Just the bearing, then the lock ring.
The bearings come with the lock rings and also 2 spacers about 3/16" thick.
They slip over the axle and are for use as spacers before pressing the bearing on when you are using disc brakes.
They are not used with the drum brakes.
So, moving forward, the differential and axle end seals will be removed to protect them from damage when I weld on the brackets.

As an extra note, the axle tubes are exactly the same length on each side. The pinion is centered.
The left axle ( drivers side - North America ) is 1/2" longer due to the position of the differential inside the housing.

 

I hope this info will help anyone who may face this in the future.
I searched up and down all over the place and could not find the specific info.
As it turns out it wasn't that difficult after all, just a little confusing when you get a bunch of parts and no paper directions.

 

Larry,
Thanx for the update. I don't know why someone wouldn't put a sheet in the box showing the proper sequence for assembly and a note that told what the spacers were for.
I could use those spacers if you are not using them.

Bruce

 

Blue One, here is the rest of the story. The first thing pressed on the axle is the spacer with the bevel toward the axle flange or front side. Then the bearing, then the locking ring. The reason for the first spacer is, when all the parts are assembled and the assembly is in the housing, you go to finish up the job and put your brake drum on the axle only to find out that the drum bottoms out on the brake backing plate before it bottoms out on the axle flange. No good. Ford backing plates come with different degrees of back spacing. So to have the brake drum fit snug against the axle flange and the backing plate outer lip fit just inside the back edge of your brake drum, the first spacer pressed on is what sets that distance correct. So you have to have the correct first spacer in place for everything to fit right. You where lucky they sent the right spacer or it can be a guessing game. I would also get a bearing O ring for the bearing grove. Yes, it might be redundant, but it never hurts to use it.

 

Hmmm this will need a second look. I fit things together in the mock up and it appeared to be fine, however now you have me second guessing the brake drum clearance to the backing plate.
Looks like a mock-up using the thin spacer ring first is in order......
The saga continues
Larry

 

Ok, here we are. Without the thin (3/16" thick) spacer ring slid on before the bearing , the axle fits well and so does the brake drum.
Now comes the but part. Without the spacer ring the drum clears the backing plate, however it is uncomfortably close and the brake shoes do not line up with the drum exactly as they should.
With the spacers in place, everything is exactly where it should be.
Now to press the bearings and lock rings on and move ahead.
Thanks for all the input, Blasted you were correct.
I did give my feedback to Speedway that they need to step their game up and supply an instruction sheet with these things regardless of how simple it may seem.
Larry

 

That quick-change is a thing of beauty! HRP

 

It really is isn't it Danny. True hot rod porn

 

Larry,
I had forgotten that you bought that Quickchange from Speedway. I'd bet that the axle package came from Currie. It seems that if you are going to build a kit, you should supply instructions. If you buy an assembly then it should be assembled.
The spacer ring story worked out fine, but could have been a real pain if you had pressed the bearings and lock rings on without the spacers.
Blasted got it right, but when I order my axles I specify the offset and don't need spacers. That being said, I have a current customer who has what appears to be a half breed set up. I do not have the brakes but need to allow for adjustment at assembly to avoid the same situation as you had. So, I will send him spacers and explain how to determine if he needs them or not. My plan was to make a fit up bearing for the axle that will allow him to check the brake drum fit before he presses the permanent bearings on the axles.
Do you have pictures on your mock-up bearing?
Thanx,
Bruce

 

I'll take a couple and post, it's pretty crude but accurate in size and works quite well.
The alternative that I was considering would involve ruining a real bearing by taking a die grinder to the inside bore and making it a slip on and off fit for mock-up purposes.
Since I didn't have an extra bearing, I made one of plywood and plastic pipe
Larry

 

I was wondering how you where getting by with the test fit. Very bright idea.

 

I made my carrier Q/C test fit bearings by taking spare bearings and using a brake cylinder hone to the inner race. I did it in a drill press. Took quite awhile because the inner race is hardened steel, but it worked. I tagged and labeled the test fit bearings so they don't accidentally get used!!

I don't see why you can't do the same thing for the axle bearings used on a non-floater rear end.

Oh year, this was all for the BIG 10 spline Q/C rear end.

 

As I said without having a bearing to turn into a test fit version, I made my own using hole saws and plywood and 1 1/2" black ABS pipe.
Using my calipers I measured the bearing and the plywood and found that 3/4" plywood plus a piece of 1/8" thick ABS plastic sheet was bang on the exact thickness of the bearing.
I cut the center sleeve of the imitation bearing over length and sanded it down until it matched the length measured by the calipers from the bearing.
A bit of ABS glue holds it all together. Took me about 1/2 hour to make
Looks a little crude as I said but it was very effective.

 

Cool, I have made several sets of set up bearings by 'honing' the inside bore with coarse sanding rolls on a Dumore and spinning the bearing in a lathe. Just never made a Big Ford axle bearing, but will now. If anyone does this, be sure to get a good grip on the inner race. There isn't much to grab onto but it is doable. Don't run the lathe too fast. You will be surprised how much you have to hone before you get a slip fit.

 

It took me a "bunch of time" to hone the inside of my carrier set-up bearings. I pretty much consumed a set of honing stones.

 

For future note, I can ID grind any bearing to slip fit provided an accurate shaft size can be provided..

 

And, here are pictures that before I posted them you would just not be able to find online.
I searched like crazy to find pictures that would detail the assembly and found nothing.
Here you can clearly see the small spacer ring, the bearing and then the lock ring.
Possibly this will all help the next guy to look.
Remember, this is for drum brakes, if you use a disc brake kit it will be different.
Larry

 

THIS WAS VERY INTERESTING

 

On your standard ford 9" rear end with drum brakes, they have 2 main shims sizes. Depending on your backing plate, there is a 1/2 spacer or a 1" spacer used. You can use a simple ruler to determine which spacer to use for your set up.

 

Shouldn't there be a bearing retainer & seal on there to hold the axle in?

 

The axle seal is inboard of the bearing in the axle end. The bearing retainer is a U shaped plate with 4 holes that goes over the axle and drum backing plate during the assembly.