Buy rated clevises from a reputable manufacturer. The front suspension will be unstable with heim joints.
quick question for anyone following this, I just got to messing with some split 37 style bones, does anyone make longer spring perches so you can have the spring on top option?
You really should listen to these guys and ditch this setup, looks unsafe and will be ill handeling-unstable!
Been following this from the start and I don't like the setup, a lot of this stuff was done back in the day and a lot failed, we learnt and made things better. I also noticed the bolts through the hiems are only grade 5, nothing less than grade 8 in this area. Hang it on the wall and move on. JW
I found some longer spring perches in speed way that'll probably be long enough, going to see about getting some of those and some 3/4 hiems to go on the end of them
But thanks for all the input guys, some good some negative, but you don't learn unless you ask and listen!
If you have welding skills, a welder, and want to buy bat-wings that work and only need to be welded up, take a look at Paul Horton's Welder Series for low-buck welder friendly parts. @ welderseries.com I've bought parts from them before and they run a friendly, easy-going family business and the parts get to you pronto. (They also sell parts that are already welded at competitive prices to other vendors.) And, no, I have no connection at all to them. I just like their parts.
I'm using 37-41 split bones and the longest spring perches from SoCal…can't remember how long they are off the top of my head…but I still had to machine down some shallow cone shaped washers to go into the taper on the under side of the bone…and a really slimmed down nylock nut.
If you're still considering a wishbone/batwing … Bass did a nice one on the Wade coupe … this would be the way to do it … as far as the batwing component itself is concerned. Photo taken from Brian's build thread. Also…here's the link to that thread. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/the-wade-model-a-coupe-build-thread-photo-journal.336494/
How many threads are left in the really slimmed down nyloc nuts? Not many I bet and not a good idea ! JW
26T rpu…I never counted the threads…but they're a commonly used aftermarket low profile nut…not a nut that I machined down. Maybe I should have clarified that. The washer I machined…nut was purchased. It's about half the depth of a standard nut I guess. Here's a pic of a similar nut I found real quick on speedway's site through google.
Ok but nuts like that aren't really for high load situations. A case of convenience shouldn't compromise the purpose. JW
I saw some extra long spring perches speedway sells that will work, and leave me enough thread to use my original tapered nut
does not look safe to me and do not use the square tube tie rod. is your family worth it? glad we have state inspection in Pa. keeps this off the road
What? I thought we'd established that you should use clevises on those batwings? I know everyone cries poor, but you can't tell me you're building a car and can't afford to buy 4 clevises and nuts? I'm going to add: why the step in tube diameter for the heims in your photo? If you had to do that to get enough meat to thread, the rest of the hairpin must be real spindly..and that is bad. You can try to budget as much as possible, but at some point - like suspension, steering and brakes - you have to pony up whatever is necessary to use the appropriate materials. If you don't have to appropriate tube or bolts or whatever laying around the place, you're just going to have to buy some. Sorry to be blunt, but that 's a fact.
For your bat wings, clevis ends are safer. They are available from several hot rod parts suppliers like Speedway Motors.
You are right about tube axles and 4-bars going together. Jim Ewing designed the Super Bell tube axle and Pete and Jake's rod shop designed the 4-bar. AND they really need to be used together because of the plane that the axle goes through moving up and down with uneven road surfaces. I am 67 years young, and have never heard of a hairpin or split wishbone failing unless the welds on the brackets were done by a real novice. If in doubt, let a qualified welder/fabricator do the welds. If you use a Super Bell with split wishbones or hairpins, you will certainly get a rigid ride as if there are no shocks and no spring. My former ride was a '37 sedan with a Super Bell and split wishbone kit designed for a '37-'40 Ford. I bought it like that, and wondered why it rode like a conestoga wagon, really. The kit was designed to split stock wishbones just out to the X-portion of the frame, not very far at all, and it still was totally rigid. It would actually lift one front wheel off the ground when passing over a hump in the road at an angle. That is rigid and very dangerous. An i-beam axle really works best if it is drilled with about 17 1" holes. It is not for weight loss, but for flexibility. Look at all the cars being built today; I-beam axles that are drilled, hairpins OR early Ford split wishbones, and Buick brake drums with F2 backing plates. This shit works.
You have access to a mill, take a regular nut and mill it off. instant jam nut. I personally prefer a hiem joint to a clevis for suspension components, you can built your double shear into your batwing and the spherical rod end leaves a little more room for articulation than a clevis.
Yes but; the connection of the hairpin tubes to the batwing should be a rigid but adjustable joint, like a clevis. Not saying the heim won't function there; but the articulation is not needed at that joint and they certainly don't look right used in that application. I'm kinda surprised that there has not been more comment on the use of the solid 3/4" rod for the construction of hairpins.
I actually had not noticed that the hairpin was constructed from 3/4 bar. A hair pin should be built from tubing just like a ladder bar, and while I have seen them function in lighter stock I prefer a 1" x .125 wall mechanical tubing. One of the things that we commonly see with young people ( myself included at the time) is cheaping out because this is what we have to work with or this is all I think I can afford. Building a rod is not a race, if you can't afford to do it right today you save until tomorrow.
EEK! You're kidding? That's why I questioned the hairpins construction and the enlarged ends for the heims. I suspected something odd, but not that scary!
Between Ned Ludd (whom I agree completely with), Hackerbuilt and Beaner, you've got several well seasoned responses! I'm sure you can build something that will serve fine. The clevis suggestion feels right, over the heim mount and rotation issue.
The OP stated that the 3/4" rod was drilled and tapped for 1/2 thread; but were drilled off center so he added a piece over the outside as a reinforcement.
Thanks Rich, I went back and re-read that post, I should have remembered that. And to the point you made, yes, I am also surprised more hasn't been said about it.
I think I've made everything as clear as possible but some keep asking questions on stuff I already stated, this isn't a large thread and would only take a couple of minutes to read. By the way for yall's comfort I've actually began to put wish bones on my car now. But the hair pins story again but shortened. 3/4 solid, my uncle started making them around the age of 16 back in the 60's for his coupe that ended up getting free wishbone that he ended up using. My though, oh hey free hair pins, that was actually old. 1/2 threaded holes kinda off centered, not leaving much meat. so I turned out a sleeve with a bevel towards the inside on each side of the sleeve, tig welded it up and smooth it out where itd look like one piece. and that's it. im not trying to get out cheap, or I wouldn't have the parts im starting with. but with all that said, I was giving some free wish bones (cheap) that im going to us now, and just making sure, but you can use a heim joint on where it mounts to the frame correct?
The Jalopy Journal
