Technical 35-36 REAR BONES. SHOULD I USE HEIM JOINTS, TIE ROD ENDS, BUSHINGS, WISHBONE BALL, OR...

I've been reading threads until my head spins. As far as I can tell, everything will fail and kill me and I've got kids, so getting dead isn't an option.

I'm building a '35 Tudor with a 283, T10, and a Bronco 9". It is time to set up the rear suspension. I've got some '35-'36 rear bones and I'm going to run my stock spring and a torque arm. I'll keep the ends of the bones as close together as I can on the tranny side. I'm undecided on a panhard bar.

I really like the idea of using a wishbone ball and socket similar to the front and I have the parts but I've read that the rubber balls can wear out fast when used on the rear. It seams like an elegant solution but I don't want to be underneath the car playing with its balls all the time.

Using a Speedway wishbone splitting kit with tie rod ends and weld in bungs seems easy and cheap but I worry that they mount single shear and may fail, especially if I ever get tired of the 283 and go bigger.

I'm leery of heim joints because of premature wear on a street car. At least they can be mounted double shear.

Using rubber or urethane bushings set up to screw into the speedway bungs seems like a decent option but I want to make sure I choose the right size and don't bind up the rear end.

My budget is small and I only want to do this once. I wasn't there back in the day and I want to get this right. Which way should I go?

 

I personally would use 4-bar bushing in lieu of heim joints and double sheer each side. Insofar as attaching hardware, 5/8"UNF HT bolts for general driving and 3/4"UNF HT bolts for HD driving. I recently fabricated an IRS torque arm using sleeves and bushing from Ridetech. Rather than use their rod ends I bought 3/4"UNC HT cap screws that were ground to contour and welded to sleeve. Drilled and tapped HD tube end to 3/4"UNC.
Insofar as rear bones at differential are concerned, are they up to the task in OEM configuration, aren't they prone to failure from time to time? I'm sure someone more knowledgeable and with experience in this will chime in.

 

You can buy the large bushes, sleeves etc. from Pete & Jakes that they use on their ladder bars. Take a peek on their website.

 

You say in your post "I am going to run my stock spring and a torque arm". However, other than the '35/'36 'bones, I see no mention of a "torque arm". If you are referring to the 'bones as your torque arm", they are inadequate for the job. In an original Ford setup, the torque tube was the major component in controlling the axle "torque" or 'wrap', and the 'bones were merely diagonal braces to keep the axle housing 'square' with the torque tube. They did not control any torque reaction whatsoever.

While the 'bones you have a "traditional" by era, and popular, surely your research turned up many complaints of them bending or breaking when they were used as the sole method of torque control in open driveline applications.

Your are quite correct in planning to run the 'bones diagonally, keeping the forward ends as close together as possible, but they either need to be reinforced or a third torque link added to the mix. Reinforcement could take the form of adding an upper tube to each 'bone attached to the top of the axle housing to make a sort of ladder bar. Or, they could be replaced entirely with a GM truck arm style "I" beam section. The latter uses generous sized rubber bushings at the forward ends in double shear brackets.

Of course, the elephant in the room that isn't mentioned here, is to use the super simple parallel leaf spring setup. Inexpensive, easy to install, plenty strong, no heavier than the combined weight of the alternative parts...etc., etc.

Ray

 

When I say torque arm, I mean adding a 3rd or 4th bar off of the top of the axle housing to the front of the bones. Similar to these: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ue-arm-rear-suspension-picture-thread.511716/ It seams accepted that 35'-36' bones are thicker than other years and up to the task if used with a torque arm.

I thought long and hard about using parallel leaf springs, and chose not to. It would have been an easier route but my budget is extremely limited so spending $500 plus on Chassis Engineering is out. I thought about using the brackets and front springs out of a Chevy or GMC A.D. pickup like some people have done, but the '36 bones I've got became available first. I'm also really interested in building a suspension out of the original bones. It feels right, if that makes sense.

mgtstumpy and X38, thanks for the bushing source and size tips. I've been a little nervous about using 4 bar ends because I'd only be using 2 rather than 4, so I was worried they would be small and the threaded ends would be weak. If people are having luck with them that makes me less worried.

 

how about a uni-ball? split the bones and attach them to each side of the uni-ball.

 

Check out how the Rollings Bones Hot Rod shop sets up rear ends. They use the rear bones but add an upper piece that takes the load originally handled by the torque tube. I plan on using a similar set up on my hot rod.

 

Hahaha! I suppose that's why they put truck balls on the hitch so they're right out in the open so no climbing under the truck to get tea bagged!! hahahaa

 

This is how I am doing my 40 pu, the plan is to add a 7/8" round tube bridge to the bones for added strength.

 

I would go with the heims. I have them on my front bones. They have been fine for over 20 years. The braking loads on them are higher than the rear axle loads. If you are worried, rubber cup seals are available. I use them on the heim balls on the coilovers. I glob them with grease and the seals keep the grease in and dirt out

 

Now this is a very sanitary set up and should be more than adequate for any style drivetrain except high HP. You can reinforce the bones both internally (117Harv) and at the spring hanger joint. Nice work.

 

Did a 33/34 chassis for a customer and used a P&J ladder bar front crossmember along with their 5/8 th adjustable ends in the 36 bones and a torque arm from the QC going forward to the front of the bones. Used 1/2 inch heims on each end of the torque arm.

 

I like the top bar idea, aka ladder bar style, a lot stronger for that big HP and double sheered at front as per Marty's post above.

 

I used a set of 36 wishbones in the back of my 40 tudor, and used a chunk of wishbone from the front with the ball. If it doesn't wear out on the front, why would it wear out on the back?

 

alchemy, do you have many miles on that 40? I was originally going to go with a front wishbone ball on my rear and then I read a thread and someone, I think it was Zibo, said that they had a car set up that way and they were burning through the rubber covers on their wishbone ball frequently and would never use that setup again. My '35 is only going to have a 283 in it with skinny tires, but I want to be able to beat on it a little without having to replace parts on it all the time. I have most of the parts for this setup right now.

krylon32, thanks for the bolt sizes and description. That is exactly the kind of info I'm after.

mgtstumpy and mlagusis, upper bars of some sort have always been part of the plan.

Pewsplace, I'd forgotten about 117Harv's bones thread. Those things are awesome.

Andy, I'm glad to know you're getting some life out of heim joints. It seems like some people burn 'em up fast. They also seem to run them exposed without the covers or grease.

john walker, a uniball seems like it might work pretty well though it isn't that traditional.

Thanks for all the input guys.

 

I used a product from a company called Seals It. We used them on go karts,micro sprints and full size sprints on all the heims and never had dirt and mud get in there.Great product!!!

 

They have a 3/4" NF shank, along with a 5/8" thru bolt. I get them from Art Morrison Enterprises.

 

Thanks.

 

I did my 36 rear bones as a ladder bar and used Johhny Joints for the ends. Very happy with this setup been on the road now almost 3 years with no problems. I will try to get some pics up later.

 

If you build or use a wish bone to handle the job, I'd use one of these instead of the ball and rubber socket....not traditional but it's up to the job.

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/categories.aspx?id=1494

 

...should have read that one last post.....missed it by thaaaaat much.

 

Not a lot of miles on my 40 with the wishbone ball, but my brother's A pickup with the same setup has lots of use and he's never replaced the rubber.

 

a uni-ball in my 30 roadster. mimics the original ball and socket. the arms don't twist and break this way. (see post 21, the currie ent. link).

 

john walker, that is a thing of beauty. What size joint is that?

 

looking at my invoice, it doesn't list the size. part # SM-FJM from polyperformance.com san luis obispo ca 805 783 2060. $42.99
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/Flex-Joint-p-25.html
i machined a sleeve from steel pipe that the joint slid into. drilled a few holes around the sleeve and plug welded the bare joint inside. one hole open for the zerk and one for set screw access. welded on two square plates that sandwich over the center x-member frame plate and gusseted between the plates and the sleeve, two top, two bottom. should be strong enough. after welding, load the nylon bushings, ball and retainer ring. be sure to protect the fine retainer ring threads when welding. i used a couple of large washers, nut and bolt.

 

That sounds like a good thorough way to set it up. Thank you for the details. My first impulse would be to disassemble the joint and weld directly to the joint housing. I'm sure that sleeving it is stronger though. It seems like a rock solid way to duplicate the original motion of the whole rear end.

 

Lots of good info and links. Thanks

 

Thanks
I'm doing the same thing
283 in a 36 coupe
Might make my bones for the rear since I can't find 36 bones around here and a torque arm from the pumpkin to the crossmember

 

That is a nice setup. I used an A front ball with 46 front bones and 36 housing and end mount for the spring on 26 T modified but it is not done yet so I don't know about the wear issue. Jim Ford