Folks Of Interest The Truth About Speedway... Part 1

Does this probably mean we won't be seeing them on the Alliance Vendor List any time soon?

 

3..........2.................1..............ignition........BLAST OFF !!! It's obvious there is many an opinion on this post. Kinda' cool for those days that roll by with 6 posts in two days.......lol. At least you now know we are all reading regardless.
I lean towards the "do the right thing" mantra, err towards the little guy........when the opportunity is taken to invest in the little guy's idea and product. You would think a world renowned, and self promoted leader in the hobby would have done their best to ensure a pay off/licensing fee to said little guy's designs. It's kind of sickening that it appears as it is......and as of this writing.....that they do not.
My 2 cents may not really matter.....with this post at and probably over 120 comments so far.......but for me, I don't think I am interested in rewarding bad behavior. There is ALWAYS someone else.....no matter how easy or attractive.....and especially so in this day of the internet.
I don't shop where I feel that I will be taken advantage of, as well....I don't shop where it appears others have been either. So be it.....next please.

 

The above statements are entirely untrue. Foxconn doesn't make anything. They simply assemble stuff that Apple buys and furnishes to them. The current estimate, from people who are familiar with the cost of assembling electronics in China, says Foxconn is getting about $12 per phone for their work. Doing the same work in the US would add another $15 to that assembly cost. The components themselves would cost the same as they do now, since they're bought from the US, Japan, Korea, Taiwan, and a few other places around the world. In the quantities Apple purchases, there's about $200 in the component cost of the current iPhone, up from about $189 in the ones from a couple models ago.

Adding another $15 or $20 to the selling price of an iPhone would have near zero effect on sales, given the fact that they already sell at near twice the price of other high quality smartphones. Apple's ability to build an almost cult-like following for its products across the board is something no other company has been able to do. You could demonstrate 20 different characteristics that make Samsung's top phone a better product and the Apple-o-phile will still happily pay twice the money for the company's latest offering.

Re the supposed high quality of the Chinese assembly work, sources from inside Apple have said repeatedly that they have problems with the phone cases or screens getting scratched as they go thru assembly. Nothing against the Chinese employees or their work ethic, but rather just a demonstration of how difficult it is to get people to handle delicate stuff properly when the most complicated thing they've ever handled before is a garden hoe.

Apple assembles in China for one reason, and one reason alone. It allows them to have a separate, wholly owned Chinese company that sells the products to Apple US at whatever price the company decides it wants to pay for tax purposes. That's why Apple has more than $55 billion in profits parked offshore and not subject to income tax so long as it stays offshore. Its all about tax avoidance, and has nothing to do with cost or quality.

 

thinking about it in the hobby world, it would be great to always buy from the little guy, working in his backyard barn building hand crafted parts to put on our hot rods.
thinking about it in the business world, give me the best part for the cheapest price, and don't care where, who or how it was made. ohhh and can i make some money on it?
which of these worlds are you looking at it from?
speedy Bill really did nothing wrong, his part may be better, might be why it cost more.
there have been a couple threads lately about a couple little guy shops that the customer couldn't get a hold of the guy, did not deliver on time and/or part was crap.
seems to me the original fabricator of the example part, is still competitive and builds a good product, unfortunately he does not have the marketing power Speedway has.
Speedway earned it. need proof? how many catalogs of theirs are floating around your shop, house, garage?

 

So back on topic-

My question is more about our hot rod industry... and how a big business in our industry may or may not be squashing innovation through what ultimately might be a moral failure of some kind.

It's weird... If we have a thread around here about an artist that had his work stolen and sold under someone else's name, we have hundreds of folks up in arms about it. But if we have an American hot rodder have his idea "copied" and reproduced under another name, the bulk of the reaction is just "Ohhh, that's just how business works."

Steal our stuff and we'll kick your teeth in.


The US patent office was designed and implemented to prevent this. Enforcement of infringement is thru civil action , at least there's an avenue created but it's not the best.
However, foreign enforcement of infringement across borders is marginal and "tissue paper like" at best. Can you imagine traveling to a foreign country to tell them to stop thru a civil action. The World Trade Organization or WTO is supposed to help with this.

It doesn't look like HWR has a patent on their kit. But since it was first and made public, no one else can either.

Alternatives to applying for a patent
A defensive publication is the act of publishing a detailed description of a new invention without patenting it, so as to establish prior art and public identification as the creator/originator of an invention, although a defensive publication can also be anonymous. A defensive publication prevents others from later being able to patent the invention.

That doesn't keep it from being copied in free for all fashion. Patents aren't cheap, 10-30 grand and then a infringement issue can easily go over a million and that's a civil case remember. Little guys can't really do this and if they do they can't defend it. Really, there's nothing but money standing in the way of stealing someone's patent any way.

So what I find interesting is that speedway's kit is a few bucks more than HRW's kit.

Not just speedway either. I just went thru a bunch of research on a deep throat shrinker. Very surprised at what I found on alibaba.com. The company fabricating them will paint the same unit any color you want. Some are sold at 500.00 in austrailia all the way up to 5000.00 coming out of the same plant but different painting facilities. Sold in varying min quantities of 10 to 1000. It's mostly Ekold unit working circa 1954.

 

Was just about to write something basically the same.

 

I'm not sure where morality fits into this like a few others have said. There's copyright and patent laws to manage that in the big picture. Integrity is an integral part of person to person business, and perhaps Speedway has that in spades considering the props given here, both at the blog entry and in replies. Their service rocks according to all.

I'm not even sure the right thing is talking about it at all, but the membership is a rather small percentage of an industry worth billions, and by design have a specific interest that's far from mainstream. It's easy to assume that the core of this topic should be of interest to a measurable number of folks here. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I can honestly say I've never ordered from Speedway. Nothing, zip, nada. Not even for a client, and unsure of any purchases by 1 particular client. Something that needs to be mentioned about Speedway is that their market goes way beyond what folks here are interested in. How many of their other product lines are manufactured and labeled as "Speedway"? Are higher profits immoral? I don't about the rest of you but I just paid $3.79 for diesel today. Clear urethane is as high as $370/package. A simple hub assembly is $250 for a daily. Tires? Don't even...

 

Want to see where this goes.Subscribed.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo

 

True words Ryan

 

Exactly none.

 

I can write and comment on this product from an insiders standpoint. From 2005 to 2007 I worked for Speedway as a Street Rod Tech, and I had a lot of calls on the oped driveline conversion kit, all of them being quite negative. It seems no one that I alked to could get the product to install right. All of us on the phones were instructed cistomers not to tell them where the products were manufactured, not probably the best things for sales and customer service. Yes, Speedy stole some of Vern Tardels products, namely the kit to retain brake drums in case of an axle breaking on Ford Banjo rear ends.
As for the demise of the Muesun, I was told a couple of weeks ago that the Mueseum was left to the Smithosonian Institute. I hope all that works out alright

 

I wasn't going to chime in on this, but I do have a couple
thoughts I will throw out there.

I bought the Speedway open drive, and once I became informed about
how HRW, used to build them for Speedway, and the story to that, I actually returned the Speedway part and picked up the phone and bought the HRW one.
I personally talked with Nick at HRW, It means a lot to me to talk with "the guy" building the product. I also called him for my Lincoln drums.
I also had that experience with Ray Nacewitz, we talked about 32-33 trucks and he told me about what his wife had planned for his long weekend,
and when I ordered my hub puller from Vintage Precision, the young lady on the phone assured me it will ship the next day because "dad" made more on the weekend.
That is the kind of old world business I will support any chance I get.

The other side of it is, Speedway gladly took back the item well after their stated 90 day return policy.
I would be hard pressed to name another company that ships stuff out faster than them,
and I do believe their level of customer service is something a lot of other business's should aspire to.

 

Ditto on that one.....exactly zilch over here as well.

 

If you think about it, this thread is the best thing that could have happened to HRW...free press targeting their perfect market...long live the little guy. I love this place.

 

Since the Museum has been mentioned a couple more times, I will comment again in hopes of ending the rumors.

I exchanged an email today with a friend that is a long time employee and they confirmed that the Museum and it's contents are going no where.

 

Glad to hear this. I haven't been there yet!

 

Not a new guy here, however, this is my first post. Love the site, and the wisdom here is phenomenal. I cannot tell you the help and inspiration you've provided in my builds over the last few years. It is also remarkable that it took this thread to prompt me to do my first post.

First, I suppose an introduction...of sorts...is in order. I'm 71 years old, born in NC, raised in the Army, and now retired (Army...like my Dad). I graduated HS on June 7, 1962 (same year of the American Graffiti storyline...and I identify with it). My inclinations with our love for automobiles is 'old school' hot rods, street rods, and lead sleds. I have always loved the 'east coast' style...especially the 'tail draggers'. I currently have the '47 Ford (avatar) and a '55 Ford Club Sedan (both currently being worked...so it's good thing I'm retired). Also, I do almost all my on work...thus my sincere appreciation for you guys.

Now, the reason for this post: I am a frequent user of Speedway, and I fully understand and appreciate the comments made in this thread. However, I am old enough to remember when America would not 'dare' import anything from China, or any other country like them, because of their unfair manufacturing (quality) and labor practices (children/wages). In fact, it hasn't been that long ago that we (as a country) began looking the other way. I'm sure you all remember the influx of Japanese autos, how it happened, and the effect that had. That was just the beginning...

I notice that there are members of the HAMB that are business men, or were at one time. Before casting aspersions on the integrity of those American companies...like Speedway...that use products made overseas, perhaps you should consider what it would take to make a 'living wage' in a mom & pop company today. How many chrome shops, machine shop, and others have you seen close up. I would also suggest that you consider the 'real' reason (manufacturing costs); like the EPA (energy costs), the IRS (Gibson Guitar), the UNIONS, the TAXES (35% for corporations), not to mention the degraded middle class we now have. And there are many more reasons...but face it, for small business today...the US is a 'hostile' environment.

Having said that, I believe it is not a question of integrity wholly...as much as a business owner would like, today they cannot compete with foreign manufacturers. And there is not enough people willing to pay three times the price for products they can buy more cheaply. For example, how many of you have noticed the number of foreign autos on our roads these days...or better, how many of you own foreign vehicles? I would prefer placing the blame on the integrity of our politicians as it is they who have succeeded in regulating this mess...and a not so well informed public that has gone along with it in the way they have voted over the past few years. Face it, we have the government and economy we 'voted for'.

OK...that is my rant, and I regret that I introduced myself this way, and in this thread. I just had to get it off my chest. I realize we now have a 'global' economy that we have to live in...I just wish all who participate 'globally' would have to meet the same environmental (economy) standards we face.

I also apologize for the length of this post...and hope you won't hold it against me.

 

I think you are confusing the HRW open drive kits with some other product.

 

Thanks for the clarification Malcom, That is what I heard, it would stay in Linclon, but that it was willed to the Smithsonian Institute

 

Companies are fighting for their lives,but if you don't make a real effort to buy American,all of our manufacturing will end up in China.

 

What I struggle with as a builder is finding quality parts. Ignition switch's, toggle switches, water pumps, carburetors & parts, fuel pumps, brake parts, etc.....

It is frustrating buying poor quality parts and having to redo a job later because of it. I'd rather pay more and support the small guy that has a quality part.

What is important to me is that there are people that build quality parts, and that there is a place, like the HAMB, that can direct me to those parts.

Thank You!

 

"an uncivil turd-hurl."
Hot coffee out both nostrils and onto keyboard.
Thanks so much Mr. Webwalker.

 

Being the victim of Speedways "copy the little guy's product and put him out of business by producing and selling a cheaper copy" I don't need to repeat all that has been posted here. Fortunately, the company I made parts for was large enough that we were able to go on to other products and keep making a living. The big fish always eats the little fish.

Frank

 

This is the story of America, this country was founded on a FU principle that we will take what we want. US business = dominate your competition and consume their market share, been that way for hundreds of years. The only thing the small guy can do to protect his interest is bring fresh product to market, protect it thru patent and law and become more of a hard ass SOB then the guy trying to cut him out of it.

 

As the world burns the only place to find objective journalism is the HAMB...



Posted using the Full Custom H.A.M.B. App!

 

I don't see how a "big business" squashed innovation. Innovation was already created before the incident. The "failure" may have been by the innovators lack of protecting themself.

My feeling is that innovation will continue in Hot Rodding. Speedway and others will not slow it down. Innovators create for many reasons. Those creating for profit should be inclined to protect themselves.

I felt bad at one point when I bought Lincoln drums from Speedway instead of ones from MT car products. It was like SWay ripped them off. But really, both companies were reproducing drums that were invented by Ford decades prior. At that point it becomes the price/quality challenge. Speedway met the challenge and earned my business.

 

I hate to tell you but it's not pre 1964 anymore. Summit Racing, Jegs, Speedway, etc. etc. all do it. Morality and big business usually don't go hand in hand. Do they crowd out the little guys ? , yep. Welcome to 2014, it's just the way the world is now and as much complaining as we do , until new laws are passed to protect the little guy, not much is going to change.

 

One of the "ingredients" of a properly functioning Capitalist system is "clarity". I am paraphrasing, but "clarity" is the measure of the system's information transfer. In other words; if we all know what is going on...ethically, pricing, quality, and so forth, then we as members of the system can make our own rational decisions about where to purchase products from and at what price.

It frustrates me when I see posts about a crappy product or workmanship, and the poster does not tell who did the bad job. Sure in some cases, there needs to be 'benefit of doubt' -but put it into the post!

I think Ryan, has increased the 'clarity' of capitalism a little here.

Based on what I have read, I will be less likely to buy products from Speedway. Actually, a lot less. I will also be more willing to look for the original manufacturer.

Kelvin

 

Concerning innovation being slowed down by big business, sure. I think that there is still going to be innovation and creativity, but maybe not on the same level as it could be due to the BS a person has to deal with to bring a product to market or to fend off competitors. I have a product I made app 10 years ago that I thought would be a good seller. I then dove into it more and realized that I didn't have the stamina or experience to compete with the big guys. I then thought about doing this same thing, go to a big guy and see if they would market it and sell it. I quickly realized I would have to protect it and myself before I ever even showed it to to them and that is where it has stopped. I don't have the money or energy to deal with that so the ones I have made have been gifts to family and friends and that will probably be where it ends.
So, yes I think that the big guys' practices of taking what they can get has some impact on the potential of new things coming to market.

 

A few mouth's ago I purchased a pair of Offy parts ( carb spacer's) from speedway ,
When I open the box Inoticed that the new parts where made diffrent Then the one's I
had, they where knock off's from China .
I call Speedway ,I was told that Offy no longer Supplied them ( To Speedway )
I told customer service that in the catalog show's a Offy part & the box that I recived had
A Offy # , but I told the agent the part's are fakes !! After a while the agent admitted that the part came from China with a Offy # . I Told the agent that I paid for a off Part's & I
wanted Offy part's to match my other one's that I all ready had !! Speedway
Issued a return shipping lable & I retuned them,
I allso called Offy & told them what had happen ,
If I remember-correctly, I was told by Offy that Speedway stop placeing order's a few mouth's befor this happen .