Technical A 265 Chevy build with a cool story

Well, here it is ! For the grand total of $100 I bought a set of staggered hole valve covers and this 56 265 short block. It is align honed, threaded plugs in the oil passages and fully balanced with what appears to be forged dome pistons ! No clue when it was used. It obviously sat on the engine stand for a long time by the filth on it but it turns over with ease. It was run so little that I can still see the emery paper marks on the cylinder walls to help seat the rings. My bro and I wiped the very thin layer of soot off the piston with a paper towel. There is no ridge in the walls. Other than what can be seen, the previous owner knows nothing about it as it was given to him. The only issue it might have is #7 piston might have a crack in the side of it. How much of a score is this ?

 

Those are Serious Domes bfalfa55, one other thing to check is the Wrist Pin .. early Pistons has offset 0.100 pin for left and right banks. If centered you are OK, but if offset, verify they are in the right bank location. Also, I had a broken set, and put pic outthere, and was able to find spare pistons from other members. Cool build, My 292 is a Jahns Piston 14:1 comp ratio whiz bang motor. Requires Alcohol "Cold" plugs and 114 octane fuel, then she runs pretty good for cam I have. Have fun when she runs, it is even better...

 

Well GlassThamesDoug you may be another big help with this in identifying when these were made. They are not old. Each piston is marked by cyl. number on the top of the piston. After closer inspection in better lighting, they are JE Pistons. The have a number on the inside that is"165". Do you know if JE made casting/forging date code into their pistons ? I am going to send them an email and pics too. They are actually located less than an hour drive from my house. This engine was not run long and seeing how the rods and crank have been worked on to balance them, how much money do you think could have been spent to do this work to these parts ? Even if #7 piston is cracked, I think I did OK for $100 !

 

BFalfa55 You did good for $100, they have steel crank, Align hone, take money, so you are in good shape when that is done,

Being JE pistons with a number is good. They can cross reference and may have Blanks they machine different comp Ratios fom. I had this done with some ARIAS pistons last year, matched to some 1975 E/G spec pistons. The Blanks were still the same part number. Being that the Super Stock Guys run the 265 in SS/P and SS/PA the pistons you have might be available. Check these guys out, they turn > 10K RPM and run in high 11's and low 12's.

I Paid or traded, $700 for my 292, a little Hone, clean up, and a patch on the cyl block (outside) from freeze, she works good for an old AHRA F/HR motor.

 

Jahns Pistons became JE (Jahns Engineering) Pistons. Does the short block have the 265/283 or better, 2nd style, 327 rods? Most guys used the beefier 327 rods. What makes you think the number 7 piston is cracked? Pistons look to be slightly contoured. Give us a short of the bottom end. $100.00; you stole it! Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

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I figured I did good for the $100. Believe it or not, it was listed on Craiglist for 3 weeks here in Cleveland, Ohio and he said only a few people called and I was the only one who showed any interest in it. That looks like more squeeze than the pistons I have ! NICE!

 

The dome on the piston is pretty flat. They radius from the top of the dome down to the face of the piston. I have seen a comparison before of the rods but they were out of the block. I can't really tell if they are the beefier rods in the block. What should I look for with it assembled ? I didn't get the casting number off the crank yet. These pistons all have a very uniform shape in the inside of the piston and #7 has a spot that looks like a flaw and I see it in the gray color that isn't machined and I also see it in the skirt where it is machined. I am almost certain it is a crack, which might be why this engine was set aside and not used anymore. There doesn't appear to be a scorn spot in #7 cylinder so that is a plus. The crank throws and the bottom pad on the connecting rod caps show obvious signs of material removal for balancing. The crank throws have material added in some spots and shows evidence the have been re drilled to meet balancing weight. Also, it has been fitted with a regular oil filter attachment instead of the canisiter style. Hopefully you can see all of this in the picture. The block casting number is F756. Is it possible to repair the crack or will I most certainly have to replace it ? don't care either way, I know I am ahead of the game with these pistons and machine work already.

 

There will be more of a "strengthening" shoulder around the HEAD of the rod bolts if it's got the good 327 rods; the balance pads look "larger" than the 265/283 rods, so they may be the 327 rods, but it's hard to tell in the pic. Pull the #7 rod/piston and have a good look at it; maybe it can be zyloglowed (sp) to see if it's a crack. Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Probably just a misstatement, but F756 is more like a casting date code than a block casting number. That decodes to June 7, 1956. The two-digit date also tells me that was likely a Tonawanda cast block as the Flint plant used a single digit for the year. The block casting number shown in the first pix of your new find, 3720991, is a 265 that was used in all model applications during 1956 and 1957. If you're interested in the original build date, plant, and application, check the hand-stamped build code on the pad that's on the front of the block just below the passenger side head.

 

Yes Bowtie Coupe it was me typing. Engine ID # is 0224354T56G. Tonawanda and 162 HP with a 3 speed. Would be a perfect block to restamp for everything and some Corvette builds ! I pulled #7 piston and it is definitely cracked ! It's scored up too but the cylinder wall doesn't have the same marks, so I have to guess these pistons were used before. JE Pistons said the don't have many blanks in a 3.75 diameter but if I get them some dimensions and cc measurements they can hook me up. He said a whole set of these will cost $950 and a minimum run is 2 pistons at cost of $300. Not cheap but we all knew it wouldn't be cheap ! I am still ahead of the game, it's a little bummer but that's how it goes. Unless I can find one to replace it. Is it even remotely possible to repair a crack like this ? It doesn't go to the oil ring groove, only in the skirt about 1.25 inches.

 

I didn't notice any real difference in material there but the width of the is certainly wider.

 

Yeah, that's what I figured, but I thot I'd throw that info out there in case any of those misguided Phord types were listening in. Sorry to hear about the crack in #7 piston. I don't think a fix is in the cards. I wudn't want to run that in my engine, even if it was. The good news is that JE can hook you up, but we all know that almighty dollar is going to come into play. Yet, with your minimal initial investment, you're still ahead of the game, like you said. Plus, it isn't like this is your only engine so it has to get put together now to get you on the street.

 

Nope don't have to build it quick. I am currently in the process of making a mold of the dome so I can cc it and I will cc the valve reliefs. Then I am going to look at JE's piston drawings to figure out what this piston blank these should be made from.

 

How about a shot or two of the big end of the connecting rod of #7 since you have it out of the engine ("side" view)? We should be able to tell you what rod it is (265/283 or 327). I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

I am pretty certain they are. On the Trifive forum a guy posted a comparison of 265/283 and 327 rods. These look to be the real thing. I would like your help in telling me if these are real old pistons or not. After looking at them, I think the are cast, so they aren't modern JE pistons. Are these and old set of Jahns Pistons or some where down the line when Jahns became JE, did they make cast pistons ? there is a JE cast inside the skirt. I found also that there are 2 designs of pistons in this engine. I found a slight variation in how they are machined on the bottom of the skirt. A few have a "168" cast on the inside of the piston and the other and the crack one and some others have a "165".

 

With the "long" or "full" skirts, yes, they are "old", and that is what makes them "look" like a set of "old" Jahns pistons.. Modern pistons have a slipper skirt design, and are lighter. I imagine they are probably pretty heavy; another reason to have the beefier rods; lots of stress imparted on the rods with heavy pistons being slung around. Are they a "solid" dome design? If they are, even more weight. My guess is, they are forged; but that's just a guess. I'm surprised no one has an old catalog to reference the numbers for you. Here's an idea for you to consider; you could go with a .030 over 305 piston, bore the block accordingly, and use aftermarket 6 inch rods. It'll put the piston down in the hole .045, so you'd probably want to deck the block .020 to .030. Then use a composition head gasket to arrive at a decent quench. Slightly longer rods will load the cylinder walls less, and give the piston more dwell time at TDC. It'll still be a "265", but won't have those $950.00 pistons you were looking at. Doubtful you'll find a "replacement" for number 7. You could go with a good, cast, flat top, 4 valve relief, 265 piston, BUT, your rods look to be bushed, or at least full floated like GM did with the Z-28, 302's, so that would also make different rods a requirement (or use nylon "buttons" IF there's enough pin boss to make that work). As far as your 2 different numbers, 168 VS 165, could they be for RIGHT and LEFT banks of the block (are there FOUR of each number?)? That would be my guess, as someone else mentioned earlier. I think you got a real deal on the price you paid, so almost any way you go should't have that great of a TOTAL price tag (basically a good block and crank for $100.00/the PISTONS are the "issue"). I see you at least as better off over the 55 block you were working with, but then again, there goes whole idea of using your Fathers engine for your build. Now, IF "YOU" like the 305 piston idea, I have a new-in-the-box set of Ohio brand .030 over 305, cast, flat top pistons, you can HAVE (this is ONLY for this guys build) to help keep your costs down; I'll even cover shipping. OR, if you stick with using 265 pistons, I still have a full set of Perfect Circle Standard to .010 (file to fit type) Chrome rings you can have, same deal. You'd still have to go with the 6 inch rod idea with 305 pistons, and deck the block after boring; and rebalancing, don't forget rebalancing. Let me know. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

That is very generous Butch ! I might do that but I will see if I can possibly find a replacement somehow. I will take a pic tomorrow inside the piston so you can see if you think they are cast or forged. They are solid dome. The 165/168 numbers aren't left or right. they are installed on both sides of the engine. And YES I won't be using my dads engine but I couldn't pass this up and THE OLD HOT RODDER is the inspiration for this whole mess anyway. As a matter of fact, when I told him about it, he said it was really neat and he actually wouldn't let me buy it because he said he was going to give me the money and it was my early Christmas present ! Here is a better pic of the piston and a close up of the rod.

 

Definitely the good 327 rods you have there. Just let me know about the pistons OR rings; just send me a PM with a name/address. I'll watch this thread. I am butch/56sedandelivery.

 

I just re-read what I wrote, and I must have been experiencing an acute episode of intracranial flatuence (brain fart). Technically speaking, the block would NOT need to be decked in order to do this. It's also assuming a "rebuilder" type piston was used, having .020 off the tops to begin with. Using a 305 rebuilder piston, on 6 inch rods, would put the piston .015 ABOVE the deck, meaning a THICK head gasket would be needed, unless the piston tops were milled down .020-.030 more. Don't want to mislead anyone. IF I had a good, standard bore 265 block, I'd do this short block; I get my machine work done EXTREMELY cheap.

 

I call those moments a bad case of Cranial-Anal Disease ! When your head is up your butt so far you can't think straight ! You have always had great info. Butch. It's hard to think out loud for everybody sometimes ! Could the L99 (Baby LT1) 5.94 rods be used without hitting the block in this case ? That would, if I do the math correct, put the piston .045 down the cylinder, SO decking the block could be done to achieve a better quench. I would really like to know if SOMEBODY can help track down ONE piston like these, There's got to be one somewhere.

 

Yeah, those are the good 327 rods....have the bump on the top radius of rods. early 283 and 265 had no bumps on the rod. Although a former record holder in SS/P claimed the 265 rods have a lot of nickel in them and told me they are good for 10K RPM?

 

My dad raced before the time of the 327 rods and he said he never had an issue with the early rods, it's all they had. He and a friend built a 301 for a 55 that was cranked up to 8500 RPM with no issues. He contends it's all in how you build it. GlassThamesDoug, If you can, see if the guy who races SS/P knows where I might purchase a replacement piston to match my other ones.

 

Keep in mind a crate engine is around $1400. And that is brand new. You can't rebuild one for that. The torque is well worth it.

 

I know Jim, I have a 350 in my car right now. I am more up for seeing what I can get out of small cubes with more modern technology. I not have much more than that in this build by the time I'm done because I am hunting up parts for as good a price as I can get. If I don't find a piston, I may have a line on another 56 265 short block, freshly built, never run for a good price. By the time I'm done, I hope I have enough space to store all the 265's I find or have ! LOL !

 

The only problem with the L-99 rods, is they're large journal; you can buy spacer bearings or thick bearings for the conversion putting large journal rods on a small journal crank, but they are $$$$$. Some feel the extra and dissimilar material of spacers does't transmit heat equally, leading to issues with changing clearances, and the thick bearings just are't durable enough. My math puts the piston .025 in the hole if using a 305/350 compression height piston with a 3" stroke (or .045 with re-builder type pistons) and L-99 rods. A 265/283 piston would put it .135 out of the block; 327 .085 out. The L-99 rods probably are't the way to go unless you use a 3", Z-28 (68-69) 302 crank, or an aftermarket 3" crank, that's large journal, and a 305 block to build into a "265" (Deja Vu, where have heard that before?). If JE will make you a piston, but insist they have to make at least 2 of them, for $300.000, then I'd go that route; you can't beat the price for what's involved. I'd take that bad piston off the rod, and send it to them. I've never mentioned EGGE, due to my experience with them, not good at all. I am Butch/56sedandelivery.

 

Thanks Butch. My next questions is: I believe JE only makes forged pistons. I know they would match the weight of the piston but is there a problem to running one forged piston with 7 cast ones ? I wouldn't think it would be a problem since they said they would match the existing piston but if there is an ssue, I'd like to know what it is.

 

I've been following this closely. I am putting the 265 out of the Fly back on the street I think. It's going in the LeGrange Produce Tribute Truck that I am building here on the hamb. I will have to detune it some, but I am glad that I am not the only one that caves into the 350/350 train of thought....even though financially it makes more sense.

 

I catch crap on a daily basis for "I can't believe your going to build a smaller engine". I am being such a cheap ass doing this build, I will bet I am spending less on these 265 related parts than I would finding 350 parts. The fun and enjoyment is in "BUILDING" something rather than the easy way. I built the 350 with my dad. Now my 18 year old son can learn how to build "THE FIRST" small block Chevy. What cost is that ? PRICELESS !