History Pre-War Roadster Research: Model A v. '32 Shell

I'm continuing to research early-to-mid 1940's hot rod building standards. One thing I've been thinking about lately is whether to keep my stock Model A shell on my '29 roadster project. I actually like the stock shell, but of course who doesn't like/love the '32 shell?

I've been looking through Don Montgomery etc. books and find that even by the early '40's the '32 shells seem to be on about (I'm guessing) 90% of all Model A roadsters.

For you historian types, would you consider the use of the stock Model A rad shell to be *untypical* of a Pre-War hot rod? btw, I am probably staying on the original frame, and may even keep the 4 cyl. This car will represent the bare bones hot rod of a builder on a budget in the early 1940's. With those kind of "holdovers", would the "A" shell be more at home? Or had the '32 shell all but taken completely over? Input sought and appreciated!

 

Although I'm far too young to comment I would think the racers putting the t and a body's on the 32 chassis would leave the grill, most everyone else were just hopping up there cars and I'm sure the change of grill to the 32 was a change to look like the people going fast.

 

dont know, but it seems the me the model A "builder on a budget" would have kept the original shell if he kept the orig engine (?)

 

My roadster is using no parts newer than 1940 and I am running a '32 commercial grille on an A frame, but it has a V8 in it.

It's always been my theory (and I could be totally wrong) that the swap to a '32 grille and radiator had more to do with needing a radiator with dual water inlets and outlets than it was with looking pretty (although they sure do look pretty)

When I was researching, I found the same thing, virtually every early picture of a Ford roadster I found from that era ran the '32 grille, although all my saved pics were V8 swaps.

Might be different for a basically stock but stripped-for-weight type build.

 

After having my brand new $700 Walker radiator damaged by a stone, I will use a 32 shell on my next build. I hate Model "A" stone guards, but I may use one on my 29 coupe Banger, as I want to keep it looking nearly stock.

 

We had a thread on this very subject in our 1930's-40's period correct hot rods social group.

Here's what we found;

Earliest photo of a non-32 using a '32 shell - "Slayton's" 30-31 A shown here at Muroc, 1935; (note the cowl lamps and the use of 'stock' 30-31 headlamps)

Another shot of the car;

Karl Orr's '29 in 1937;

Chuck Schultz's '29 sported a chrome '32 shell in 1937; (I dig his side-mounted headlight brackets!)


Robert Stack used a commercial shell in '38 on his 1931 A roadster;

Henry Earl's '30 in 1938 (also looks like a commercial shell);

 

By 1940, the '32 grille was near-universal, although some Model A's (maybe 20-30% based on photo evidence) continued to run stock shells;

Eddie Meyer, 1940;

Bob Talmadge's 30-31 in 1941;

Bozzy Willis' '28 in 1941;

Bill Hangee's Cragar/Winfield powered '28 in 1941;

 

IMO, this is a very astute observation! I think the V8 radiator had a lot to do with this swap - although the first '32 grille swaps (evidenced by the Slayton, Stack, Orr, and Earl cars posted above) were found on 'banger-powered rides...remember, until 1940 the 4-banger was king of speed.

 

gwhite, your pics in post #6 aren't showing up for me?

 

Also, can I get an invite to that social group? (do I need one, not sure how that works but would like to check that out)

 

See if they work now...PM sent on social group

 

The Meyer car looks perfect with the stock A shell imo.

As posted by gwhite, the 32 was used right off the bat, be it either for looks or the rad as mentioned. I think both look good, but being your sicking with the A frame and going for a (Built on a budget) build, I would go for the A shell. However, there really is no wrong or right answer, it all boils down to your preferance.

 

There was no 'mid-forties' so to speak. WWII began December 7, 1941. Dry lakes racing ended that day and didn't start back until after the war was over, December 31, 1946, when Harry Truman declared an end to hostilities. Most young men were either in uniform, or working at the 'war-effort'.

 

Actually, I just read an article in HOP UP (the 2000's version) about the "lost years" or "Forgotten years", i.e., the War years of rodding. Some soldiers kept their rides active if on furlough. Also, I've always assumed that some younger brothers kept their older brothers cars running, and maybe even made some changes while big brother was away in service. But in terms of the really large picture, you are of course right-gas rationing, tire shortage, most rodders in Europe or Pacific theaters.

 

Wow gwhite, great pics! The Meyer roadster you showed is very close to what I have in mind, 'cept I do want a windshield and headlights for a street-going car. I would also like to know more about this "social group", that you mention, as I am dead serious about historic hot rods and am working hard to get the right "stuff"! Thanks for your input,
Jim

 

gwhite, the year 1935 blows my mind on that deuce shell! Must be one of the very first, if not the first retro-fit of the '32 grille to a Model A!

 

I'd think Squablow hit it pretty close back in post #4 when he said it's been his theory that a lot of guys who swapped V8's into their Model A's in that time period grabbed a 32 V8 radiator and shell as the simple way to have the outlets to hook up the V8. They may have even traded in the A radiator and shell to the wrecking yard as part of the deal to cut costs.

 

Sweet! It's a sickness, we'd be glad to have you join the club. Will send you a private message (conversation)

The Slayton A is the first I've seen utilizing the '32 shell. Seems that the '32 shell began gaining in popularity around '37 and was near-universal by 1940.

This may have helped the '32 shell gain popularity, but every one of the cars I posted was 4-banger powered. Until 1937/8 no serious racer really considered the V8 - all the aftermarket support was geared toward the A/B bangers and they pretty much held all the records.

I believe that the '32 shell was adopted by the early A/B hot rodding crowd for the same reason the Whippet radiator/shell was popular on the T-based cars just a few years before; the radiators offeres superior technology/cooled better (more fins per inch) and they looked more sleek. As the V8 gained support from the aftermarket, (starting around '38) the '32 radiator/shell just made sense - and still looked good.

 

There were meets into the summer of 1942, racing was officially 'banned' on June 1, but records exist into August '42. The first Postwar meet was held at Rosamond, October 7, 1945. Besides this, there were a number of hot rods that were still being driven daily by those on the homefront - remember, hot rods before 1948 (or so) were dual-purpose vehicles...driven on the street during the week, then raced on the weekends; they were often the owner's only form of transportation. BUT at the same time, there really were no major stylistic or technological advancements made between, say, late 1942 and the end of 1945. Fortunately, although the hobby was stunted, it didn't die completely away.

Wartime hot rods;
Unknown New Mexico deuce, 1942;

Connie Weidell on the streets of LA, 1942;

Unknown '29 A - 1943;

Don Ferrara - 1943

Unknown A-V8 - 1944

Chuck Shultz - 1944

 

All are compelling arguments on this deal. It's no doubt that the deuce shell really was the "one" by the late forties. But in my opinion, the "average" guy with the hopped four banger in his otherwise stripped "A" really probably would have run the stock stuff if for no other reason that money was still kinda tight in the late thirties and pre war forties. Also, if you take a stock '32 radiator and shell and plop them on the front of a '28-'29 based car, you'll find quickly that they are a bit too tall to really look right, kinda like the picture of the chromed shell on the '29, although I don't doubt that the full fendered '29 had a full height '32 shell and radiator too. It just looks a bit awkward. The top class effort kinda cars always seemed to have a deuce shell adapted to the '28-'29 radiator and cut down to lower at the base of the shell where it meets the frame.

Might I suggest a '28-'29 commercial shell painted to match the body color?

 

..And ya, Gwhite, I remember reading an interview with either Kong Jackson or Ak Miller explaining the last Muroc meet in mid '42 when the military affixed their bayonets and rolled up to the racers and explained that this lake and all the others were now considered "Off limits" to civilians. He said they just loaded up their stiff and drove away... Nothing else to do with the show of force.

 

Great points; that's another fantastic option and absolutely period correct!
Bob Nordskog roadster, 1936;

Bob Wenz roadster, 1946;


On the other hand, Don Ferarra built his roadster on a shoestring during the war and managed to equip it with a '32 shell, even though he couldn't afford a hi-compression head or dual carb intake;


Both are great options and would be correct; just depends on what you want. Ain't period correct hot rodding grand?!?

 

Great looking examples. HRP

 

Super pics and info thanks!

 

That drilled (lightening holes) front axle in 1936 is interesting too. The more I chase 1940's innovations, the more I find them already appearing back in the 1930's! In fact, when I set my "arbitrary" cut-off date of 1945 for my project, I thought I was really limiting myself- turns out I might just as easily set my date back to 1940 or even 1937-8 if I stick with the banger. Still, to me, 1946 through 1948 is when everything just started moving quite fast. By 1948, with HOT ROD magazine the automotive world had really changed.

 

gwhite, I was only going on what I know from private conversations I had with Don Blair, who explained to me that someone had a radio at the dry lakes meet December 7, 1941, on a Sunday if I remember correctly. He said when the fellows who were there heard what happened at Pearl Harbor, racing stopped, immediately, and that everyone went home, and racing ended until after the war. I had the opportunity to talk with him during the nineteen eighties when he was still active in building engines, after he'd sold the Pasadena shop. I took his word to be sacred. And, still do. I know the exact dates of the war vary because we fought in two theaters. I also am aware many young men of the time who had hot rods used them prior to the war as their primary means of transportation, and continued to do so. In the photographs, extant, of that time, many are in uniform. Wheels were wheels, whether they were hot rods, or motorcycles. And, of course, as we all know, things break and you fix them faster. Those who remained in California maintained and updated. But, it would be disingenuous to imply that WWII didn't have a profound effect on what had been, and what would happen afterwards. For all sakes and purposes America came to a stand still while every able-bodied man either put on a uniform, took up a gun, or put a plane in the sky, to fight enemies on two continents, across two oceans. Those who weren't actively fighting were making materiel, armament, and munitions. There was little time to do little more than pass the ammunition and pray, to borrow a phrase from an earlier war.

 

I think we're on the same page...just pointing out that although life was very different on the home front; in many ways, it went on.

 

It was always my understanding that a 32 radiator does not fit on a 28-29 radiator? When I was building my Av8 I found this out first hand. The 28-29 radiator is too wide to accommodate the 32 shell unless of course you modify the shell or radiator. It is a bolt on swap for a 30-31 so that is my guess as to why it was first done on that year car. Either way that is the reason I went with a 33-34 commercial on my car

 

You are partially sort of right! I have had what I assumed to be aftermarket '28-'29 radiators that were too wide to fit within a deuce shell, and I have also had original '28-'29 radiators that it would slip over. Redrill the holes and you are in business. That could be reversed, too.

The other way of doing this is to take the deuce unit out and have it recored with a core a couple of inches shorter. Comparatively, that wasn't THAT pricy to do until fairly recently when copper and brass price increases made cores insanely expensive.

I do follow your theory though that there is probably a good reason the earliest use of s deuce shell anybody can find is on a '30-'31 though. It's almost a bolt on.

 

What about the simple idea that while the 32 shell's not only looked better, they offered some aero advantage with the rounded shape? Gary