Ok trying to figure out the "educated" reason scrap went up so high now. I know someone on here keeps with with the times and knows the real reason, I have heard too many oh well the world ran out of metal stories now I need a real justified, educated answer. Thanks and it is on topic because this is part of the reason I keep seeing these old fenders on the back of metal semi's on their way to the melter. PoPo
The Chinese lack the technical expertiese and infrastructure to mine iron ore and process it into steel. The Americans have the expertiese and infrastructure, but the EPA wont allow expanded mining, and the labor unions wont let the workers work for less than $38/hr. The Chinese sell us a boatload of overpriced crap, and then fill the boats up with scrap steel for the return voyage. It's absolutely amazing how simple it is to mine iron ore and smelt it into metal, but the gubberment, the trade unions, and the greenie-weenies wont have it. So instead our "leaders" sell our souls out to a foreign power, and sleep well at night knowing their protected by their golden parachutes. The exact same thing could be said about oil/gasoline.... We got it, but we cant get it cuz the tree-huggers, the gooberment, and the unions wont allow us to drill for it. The EPA, the sierra club, and the greenie-weenies wont let us build a new refinery because it might hurt the feelings of some species of cock-roach... And if we hurt their feelings, they might alter their breeding habbits... And if they alter their breeding habbits, they might become endangered! The lobbiests for big oil like it the way it is because if we [average joe] did something to drive down the prices, Exxon-Mobil wouldn't have a $100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.00 proffit this month. They want it, so they sell us a load of crap, and use the proffits to pull the rug out from under us. The political leadership dont give a rats ass cuz they got their golden parachute. The common man suffers.
here's another scrap metal question that i have yet to figure out.... what makes cars worth more than regular metal? the yard here doesn't even make you take the tires or fuel tank off and they do not charge for leaving them on like they used to....there is also several pounds of fabric, foam, carpet, plastic, oil, water/antifreeze, trans fluid, wire coating..... yet they still bring more money than say a big pile of sheetmetal...plus, with cars, people cheat the scrapyard by filling the engine blocks full of water, fuel tanks full of water, soaking the interior....you cant do things like that with regular metal....only thing i can figure is that it is easier for them to just crush them and put them in the containers instead of having to keep moving the stuff around......
yep-- what he said. where it counts, there is no loyalty to our country anymore... big business is international now. that's an excuse for having no loyalty to our country-- only loyal to profit. thus, screw the US workers and off to China, India, Vietnam-- you name it. big politics is loyal to big business who got them elected. that means that our country is run by leaders who aren't loyal to it. until there is a separation of corporation and state, this will continue to get worse. apologize for going political... -scott noteboom
Because cars are "premium" metal. All steel bodies, copper, aluminum, etc.... Yea, there's some "waste" in the form of interior, glass, etc. But it all comes out in the wash. When smelted down, the aluminum copper and other [desirable and valuable] metals float to the top, leaving prime steel in the furnace. When a smelter has to deal with "other" scrap steel, they never quite know what it is they have or are dealing with. But with car bodies, they know the exact quality and carbon content of the steel, and can guarantee it's quality to their customers.
Unfortunately, there's no way to separate the politics from those things our hobby is centered around... Steel and gasoline... Oh, and laws that effect our ability to opperate our cars upon the roads that "we" paid for. It is for those exact reasons that I call upon the moderators to not close this [political] thread... Unless, of course, it gets nasty and/or personal. These are issues that WE need to discuss so we can be on top of situation and well informed, and be prepared to fight back the next time "they" try to screw us over.
Yea it's all the E.P.A. and labor unions falt. I don't wont to go political .But we need the E.P.A. and unions more now then ever.
Scrap prices are also on the rise because of the war, we are producing more tanks,planes,ammunition, etc... than normal and so are some other countries so metals are in demand.
Yeah, you guys that shoot guns have probably noticed this already. Prices of ammo have almost doubled in the last 2 years, due to the increased prices of brass and copper.
P8D is right, steel is going up because China is becoming more industrialized. In theory, I don't have a problem with no steel mills in the US, steelmaking and the like should be done by less sophisticated countries as the US gets more high-tech and knowledge intensive jobs. That is how we all move up. Refineries are not being built because they are very expensive and take a long time to come on-line. Who would invest in processing a commodity that is rapidly disappearing and will continue to go up in price?
In wartime, metal prices always go up. In WWII they stopped making pennies from copper. The military is THE top user of copper in the world, and one of the top users of all other kinds of metal. The weak dollar does also contribute. Not to mention the fact that the demand for metals has gone up since most cars sold in the US are now made bigger. Houses are being built bigger, which uses more copper for plumbing and wiring, and with the prices of lumber also going up, many builders are using the newer metal studs in their construction. Let's face it, in the last handful of years, the price of EVERYTHING has not just risen with inflation, it has skyrocketed unproportionately to peoples' earnings.
Easy on the Unions, I'm in the sheetmetal union, and if it were not for that I would not be able to own the precious metal I have. AKA old cars.
Don't just blame the labor unions for the lack of mining, smelting, and foundrywork. Blame the american people. I've been in the foundry industry for a while and it's really rare to find an amercian born citizen willing to do that work, even if it's within the top 10% for the region's pay scale. Even with modern safety and pollution controls, smelting and melting is a hellacious work environment. You'll go thru a dozen american-borns every time you staff an opening before finding one that sticks for a year. Immigrants (legal) are more like 1 in 3 to find the guy that sticks for a year. And they bring a positive attitude instead of walking in like they've got nowhere else to go. No doubt about it, I love this great country of ours. But this has really opened my eyes, and causes great concern for our future. Manufacturing might equals industrial might, a healthy economy, and a mighty military. We've got to turn the ship.
The latest shredders can shred and sort every piece of a car for recycling. Metal, glass, rubber, copper, aluminum, etc. are all recovered. They even have found uses for the "fluff", the carpet, cloth, padding that comes out. Nothing is wasted.. Brian
Why let it piss you off? Instead of getting pissed try doing something to fix the problem. Two kinds of people in life, those who do and those who dont. Which one are you. I have been more places than I ever wanted to go, and seen more than I wanted to see. Im not complaining it was my choice. What I am trying to say is no matter what anyone say's about how screwed up the US is right now, go visit another country, see what life is like there. Some might seem better, but remember every country has their own issues. To me I think that most americans have become lazy, we have lossing skill sets and certain jobs cause theres not a high demand or they were moved overseas or now days are just used to buying whatever they need and not caring were it came from. All because someone wanted to make a buck. Relize the more China/ India/ Vietnam any of those countries develop the more its gonna cost to manufacture there, ever read about the US during the industrial revolution? Funny how history repeats itself. When cost goes up there they go somewhere else, so on and so on, until guess what someone somewhere see's that its more economical to put prodution back on US soil. Sound a little far fetched..think about it
No steel mills in the USA, Pittsburgh still has 3 of them. No foundry work, I would like to know where I go every night then. GM has a foundry in MI, IN and OH. They are out there and the work is there. The problem is knowing what products come out of them and where to buy them. I am guessing the ones that will complain about the unions are the ones that do not belong to one.
Do you speak of OIL rapidly disappearing ? You my friend are dead WRONG !! That may be what they want you to believe, But its just what is being discussed with Off Shore Purchase & The GREEN PARTYS not letting New drilling happen. Right here in So.Cal. there is an Oil reserve off the coast of Santa Barbara so large we could run the well for over 60years. But it needs a new Off Shore Derrick, Oil company ready to build it but the Tree Huggy Rich Fuckers that live on the beach say they dont want to SEE it out there window & dont want the possibility of an oil spill on THERE BEACH ! All the while they are gassing up there HUMMERS, LAND ROVERS, MBZ, BMW & whatever other Foregin or Oversize Luxury Boat they are driveing around. There are many Oil reserves around the world that havent been tapped, its all a scare tactic to raise the price of Petrolium Products. Ever notice the price of Liquid Petrolium products goes up.... But hard products such as Plastics, Foam Rubber, and the like dont really skyrocket ??
why would they want one of those oil rigs ruining their scenic view from the beachfront homes???? you expect them to suffer as well along with us?? how dare you!!!! sarc off
LOLOL... Funny thing is, they are like a mile off shore and there are already 4 ro 5 outhere now. They look cool at night with the lights on, Looks like a fleet of ships out there.
The american foundry and steel industry shrank significantly in the 70s and 80s. It's held fairly steady ever since during a period when the rest of the economy grew. Certainly not a healthy industry by any means, and somebody from PA ought to know about the decline of "big steel" The domestic casting industry has had a shift, we tend to produce higher value, higher technology castings. Near net shape methods like investment casting are compensating for the low value casting & steel refining that's going across the border. Unfortunately, those low value castings are really the foundation of manufacturing might, and they tend to employ alot of people.
I just want to remind everyone to try and remain respectfull on level headed on this discussion. These are all important points that should be discussed because they effect us, but the mods will shut us down if any one of us gets the least little bit off color. Having said that, I'm the one who drug the unions into this debate. I'm not anti union. I'm all for fair pay, workers rights, and protection. But sometimes the unions make decisions that are more harmfull than good. I did not want to, or mean to insult anyone in that reguard, but the fact still stands. American corporations [sometimes] cant compete with cheap foreign goods because the unions wont allow them to make the nessecary cutbacks it takes to remain compeditive.
the fucking green party is who is stopping new oil drilling? talk about absurd statements! oooh, i bet big oil, the republicans, etc. are all just quaking in their boots at the massive political clout of THE GREEN PARTY! haha. and greenie tree huggers driving hummers? what planet do you guys live on? the oil will not last forever. not drilling here now is a strategic move on the part of our government. we might as well save it for when the real oil crisis comes, cause it's coming and they know it. it makes for sense from a right wing political standpoint to use up everybody else's resources before we use ours.
actually the mods shut these threads down when us on the left actually defend ourselves. i guess it isn't political until WE speak up.
I gotta be honest, if I lived near the shore, I wouldn't want an oil rig out my window either. However, unlike some of those rich fuckers with their Hummers you talk about, ya gotta walk the walk to hold credibility. My house is wedged in a valley smack in between a black smoke belching old coal plant and a nuclear plant. Fun shit. I'm willing to turn my lights off in the room, insulate my house better, look into getting a solar array for my house, anything to not only lower my energy costs, but to reduce the need for those plants. Scare tactic or not, even if the oil reserves are out there, the common man will never own them. It will ALWAYS be large corporations and large government. None of us will benefit in the long run no matter how many are tapped. So, either way, whether you believe it's the oil companies holding out, or if you believe the supply really is dwindling, it does us no good. Best thing I can think up to do is reduce my use, and give the oil companies as little of my money as I have to. I no longer drive my van every day and trailer my drag car to the track. Instead, I'll drive my little old Camry every day and save some gas money to run my drag car on the weekends. I learned to adapt, and like it or not, most people will need to do the same eventually. It has nothing to do with the environmentalists and such, it has to do with big business and big government fucking the common man.
Ah forget it. I'm not here to make enemies. Desoto: lets have a cold one together when the incoming starts.
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