Technical Torque plates for vintage engines....

I know many of you know how much using a torque plate can improve your engine builds. I am fixing to make some for certain inline engines, and was wondering if torque plates were available for some of the unique vintage engines many of you are running, would there be any interest in me adding those to my list to make as well? Just let me know what your needs are and i'll get the ball rolling. Thanks

 

take a poll......

 

Should have done it as part of the thread when I started. I don't think you can add one after the fact it doesn't look like.

 

Not an inline but 348-409 Chevy plates would be cool.

 

If you are trying to stay away from duplicates, I'm pretty sure there are torque plates available for 409s, 250 Chevys, and 300 Fords.

 

I hope you've got a copyright for 'torqueplates.'

 

Buick Pontiac and FE Ford bore centers are so close I would think one plate with all three bolt patterns would work

 

I'm sure there are already some available for a lot of engines, but they may be scarce for some shops to have a selection of anything besides the common Small Block Chevy and Ford's and Big Block's. But some people may want one for themselves for their favorite engines like Nailhead's or the many variety of Dodge, Plymouth and Chrysler early Hemi's and others.

 

No copyright needed! Just calling them what they are. Thanks for your concern though....

 

http://www.bhjproducts.com/bhj_content/products/honingplates/hp_applist.php

 

BHJ, Goodson, Yother and a few others make them also. I've used some of them for over 30 years myself.

 

Disclosure:
I'm all for torque plates, 100% believe in them even if you don't need them they are cheap insurance.

Set up:
Now we all know the theory on their use. Put the load on the block that distort the cylinder walls and then hone the cylinder perfectly round with the distortion. Obviously if you pre loaded the distortion then honed, once the load is removed the negative of the induced distortion would be present.

$ 64,000 question:
Here's the question, why don't machine shops diagnose, estimate and measure a block with torque plates? Every time the machinists will find out of round and tapered cylinders without torque plates.

 

Yes, distortion is present once the torque plate is removed, but the cylinders return to being perfectly round once the heads are installed on the engine. As opposed to them being perfectly round when honed with no torque plate and them becoming distorted when the heads are installed.

 

I'm not a machinist, which should be obvious with this question: What if the head pulls differently than the plate did? Like if an aluminum head has less force than a thick steel plate? Or the different length of bolts (plate vs. head) pulls differently in the threaded holes?

 

While they are made for "Y Block" engines (292-312,etc") they are stupid money !!!

Contact me thru a P.M. if you would consider doing one for a reasonable price.

Thanks,Oldmics

 

We did a study on different methods used in engine building and one was on torque plates. Some tests were boring one cylinder with a plate and another in the same block without. Some at room temp and others with block at running temp. Some with head bolts and others with studs. In other words every variable we could think of. Rod big ends were checked for roundness and floating pins were used with drop in place clearance. Used gapless rings and checked drag difference with just one piston assembly in the plate bored cylinder and then one in the no plate cylinder. After assembly each cylinder was given a leak down test. What we found was that if the block was "squared" by indexing off of a mandrel through the main bearing bores; deck(s), front, rear, pan rails, cam bore, top, and the head bolt holes chamfered, then there was a difference in a plate bored block and one bored off the deck but not enough to be of much difference for a normal use engine. We make our own billet blocks/heads for the pull tractor so we know exactly what we have but as in all studies there was without a doubt some omissions and flawed techniques but if ones not trying new stuff he's damn sure not learning.

 

All of those variables are taken into account. An aluminum torque plate is used for applications where an aluminum head is used. While the thickness of torque plates are typically an industry standard of 1-3/4"-2" inches thick, bolt lengths are often different, even in the same engine. In those cases, hardened spacers that replicate the bolt lengths are placed in the correct locations to compensate for that. All of your concerns and more have already been ironed out decades ago and are now common practices by the many companies that offer torque plates.
With all the variables you mentioned, there is also one absolute that doesn't change, and that is when you torque your cylinder heads onto your engine, you will distort the cylinder walls, sometimes .004"-.005" out of round, depending on your blocks core shift, wall thickness, deck thickness, etc. And any preventative measure you can take to help compensate for that is better than taking none.

 

The SBC head bolts pull on the cylinder casting, Some other engines pull on the outer block casting. I believe there would be a difference in the amount of distortion between different engines.

 

X 2

 

No, that remains consistent. Then there is the whole bolt vs. stud scenario. The point being you try to replicate as best as possible the stresses the torquing of the cylinder head imposes on the block. It will never be perfect because blocks aren't perfect, and don't even repeat a lot of times when you re-torque main caps for instance, but the goal is to try instead of not.

 

So you need to know the final heads used (I'm thinking flathead Ford in my instance), the exact studs and washers that will be used, and measure the lengths of the assembled head & stud penetration for every hole, down to the 1/6"? Or more than that? Or less than that?

 

It's not rocket science, but be as exact as you can be. I've never heard anyone complain or regret using a torque plate, and i've bored and honed several hundred of all brands. Even if all the variables mentioned above are totally disregarded, it still helps more than not doing it at all. And if you do keep all the variables in mind, it only gets better.

 

If your changing studs, simply install the new ones before you hone the block and leave them in place. Then when the heads are installed, nothing has changed.

 

You know my vote- 1914-1928 Chevrolet 4

Remember, I have a pretty complete 27/28 engine for you to tinker with when you're up for a trip to Brad's swap!

 

I was already thinking about this one for you.

 

Now after all of that hook up 180-200 degree water thru the block during honing, I doubt I'll ever build another engine that requires all of that labor for the street!

 

You are a GOOD man, Charlie Brown !

 

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Definitely need to do the 348/409 engines.

 

xxxx4