Metal bonding adhesives, old school meets new tech

[Tinbender]

Some of you out there may remember my post a while back about my unconventional chopping of a 33 Ford p/u. Due to my many irons in the fire, (building two of my own rods, a wooden boat, full time teaching, night class, and a ground up restoration for a customer)the project is moveing along rather slow, but none the less moveing along.
Rather than cutting through the cab, cutting out the 5&1/2" & welding it back together, I removed the roof cap at the factory seam (bolted & riveted), cut vertically around the rear window, and then removed the top 5&1/2" of the cab, including the "ledge" that the top originally bolted to. This saved welding across the cab back, and retained the bolt on feature of the roof cap. This will come in handy later when I build and install the roll cage.

This did however leave me without a flange to bolt the roof back on to. I thought the simplest solution would be to bond a new flange on the top of the cab back. The old piece could have been slid down & bonded, but I chose to make up a new one. It was simple enough to make. I'll start with an old picture or two to help clairify what I'm doing.

This will take several posts so bare with me.

[Tinbender]

This first pic shows the top cap off, and the cab uncut

[Tinbender]

This shot shows the amount to be removed. It also shows the line for the "window" cut for sleeving the B pilar (already covered that part)

[Tinbender]

Once the cuts were made, it was time th make the new flange.
I broke a 90 degree angle in a piece of 18 ga. and used a shrinker to pull the curve into it. Fitting it as I went.

[Tinbender]

I shrunk the piece until I had a nice fit inside the cab back. (my pic of the shrinker is too big to post, I'll get back to it later)This will be the new flange that the top cap will bolt to.

[Tinbender]

Once I had the pieces built, both surfaces to be bonded were preped by grinding with a 36 grit roloc disk on a grinder. I then coated the mateing surfaces with Duramix metal bonding adhesive. The adhesive comes in a dual cartrige tube (about 40.00 ea.) It's pushed thru a mixing tube, by the gun(also about 40.00) The adhesive needs to be spread in a thin layer, covering all the bare metal.

[Tinbender]

Spread with a plastic filler spreader.

[Tinbender]

A thin even coat, covering the bare metal.

[Tinbender]

Then I clamped the new part in place. A tight fit is important. Stir sticks were used on both sides to distribute the clamping force, and prevent dimpleing the metal.

[Tinbender]

After an overnight dry, the part can be drilled for the top, and the top installed.

[Tinbender]

The finished product. The seam is at least as strong as welding,rust proof,no distortation, and will probably be the only thing left in 10,000 years when visiters from some other world dig it up.

[Tinbender]

Here's a pic of the shrinker. It has 4 jaws that grip the metal, and push it together, causing it to shrink, and curve the 90 degree bend. The stretcher does the same thing, only it pulls, rather than pushes. 300.00 for the set. Very much worth the money.

[Brootal]

You are one clever bastard Tinbender. Very interesting work indeed. I guess there's a reason why the manufacturers use this stuff nowadays.

I for one always appreciate the time and effort you put into your posts and the great quality pics that really help explain it. Hopefully I'll remember some of it when it comes time for me to build my Hot Rod. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Bondo Slinger]

Great piece of tech tinbender! That chop is soooo perfect!!!

By the way, what`s that shrinker/stretcher worth and are you happy with it or would you buy a differnt one if you had to do it again?

[34Fordtk]

SHIT SHIT SHIT Now thats how I wish I had done my chop......Bad ass tin work Tinbender!!!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[Levis Classic]

I suppose thats why they call you tinbender! Nice work.

[Roothawg]

See, I knew someone would agree with me. This is how I put the door skins on the Fly. It works good. Haven't fallen off yet. May get blown off...but that's another story. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[JimC]

Very nice work!
When the bed side was replaced on my last pickemup.
it was "glued" on.

Jim

[C9]

Excellent tech.
Some good thinking too about making the new piece to glue on.

I'm wondering if some of the epoxy adhesives offered by MSC - they are alloy specific - would be a more reasonable way to go money wise?

Speaking for myself, I would not be afraid to use JB Weld.
Course, when you compare quantities, the JB may be more expensive than what you used out of the $40. tubes.

Regardless, cool post and it made me think.

[stolenmojo]

if you're extra serious about the shrinker / stretcher, go with Eckold but it's pricey. they'll pull more leverage through the handle and the jaws are more aggressive than the eastwood. mitler brothers makes a similar unit to tinbenders there, similar price as well and 1st class quality. www.mittlerbros.com (http://www.mittlerbros.com) they make a pneumatic attachment that looks pretty handy as well, but doubles the cost?

[Tinbender]

Thanks for all the good words guys. It does take time to put these together, especially with my limited computer skills! Nice to know it's appreciated. I plan to do a complete "how to" when I get this chop finished. All I have left is the doors. There pretty straight forword, although I'm going to sleeve the splices. (They are just tacked together in the pic.) I'm also going to make my own skins, and bond them at the body reviel line. I tend to bounce around between projects to avoid burnout, so progress is a little slow. Right now I'm setting up the front suspension, so I can start fabing up the frame. It too will be a little unconventional http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
The shrinker /stretcher is a great tool for the money, and works fine for what I do with it. I've used the air powered one, it was faster, but I'd need to use it a lot to justify the cost.
I think there are a lot of epoxies that would work for this. The advantage for me using this system, is that Duramix offers so many products in this system. I use their metal adhesives (two cure rates) seam sealers (three different flow rates) foams (one for noise reduction & sealing, another for dapening, between body panels and braces,) and several different plastic repair materials. Makes the 40.00 gun a good investment! I used less than 1/2 of a tube to bond both sides on the 33, so I don't think it's bad as far as these type materials go.

[C9]

[ QUOTE ]
I tend to bounce around between projects to avoid burnout

[/ QUOTE ]


I do the same.
Just plugging away at one thing can get to a guy after a while.
Sometimes I take a break and make some fun stuff that won't get used for a while.
Nice part there is, when I need it, it's ready to go.

It does sound like you're alternating between project cars.
I'm moving around on different projects for the same car.
Same thing in the end and having a good time as well as learning something is what it's all about ... IMHO.

[SKR8PN]

Funny you should mention this DuraMix....... I just used some to repair a SHITTY weld from a previous body shop repair on the Rad shell of my '38. This stuff is the SHIT!

BUT,,,if you are using the FAST stuff,you better have ALL your ducks in a row and be able to get your shit done QUICK!!! There ain't NO time to fuck around with this stuff. It is FAST,STRONG and SANDABLE!!!
Whoever thought up that mixing tube is a GENIUS. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[choprods]

someone has to be the only one to doubt the adhesives used nowadays! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifI hope you have good luck with the products- I personally would not use it.Just me- Sorry http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Bondo Slinger]

Choprods -Not to worry man. We bond entire body panels on at work all the time! 1/4`s,roofs, you name it.This stuff is strong! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[choprods]

Im a Dinosaur.......he he- probably be fine TinBender knows his shit.

[34Fordtk]

A friend at a local shop uses Fusor and he bonded two parts together and clamped a vicegrip on each side and the metal broke first!Good stuff!

[Tinbender]

That's OK choprods. Better to be cautious. But the stuff isn't new, I've been using it for a few years in collision work. I've seen the tests, and tested it myself. Took a while to convince me. It is NOT however something to be used structuraly. When I bond a 1/4 on, or a box side I resistance weld thru the adhesive. It's called weld bonding, and has been proven much stronger than welding alone, and offers the best corrosion protection you can get.
It is also not for bonding exposed joints. (like patch panels) It will show lines due to slightly different expansion rates. Keep in mind my roof is held on to all four post with four bolts each, and bolted thru the bonded pieces around the back of the cab. (My post are also sleeved, I'm probably the most paranoid guy you ever wanna meet when it comes to safety)
So although caution is good, I belive new technology should be explored, and applied. IMHO that is the essence hot rodding.

[low springs]

[ QUOTE ]
We bond entire body panels on at work all the time! 1/4`s,roofs, you name it.This stuff is strong! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
i do the same thing also. although i use Fusor panel bonding glue. it works great also saves alot of time with welding and grinding. espically if you work on comission like i do.

[side_valve]

I've used that stuff, works great. Instead of buying the mixing gun some body shops will rent it for a weekend - much cheaper than buying one.

[atch]

Great tech, Tinbender.

I've got two questions:

1. Do you have to use up an entire tube each time you use it, or can it sit in the mixing tube without setting up?

2. How would it work on floors?

[Tinbender]

Mike,
1. no, but there can be a shorter shelf life. You leave the mixing tube on, store with the tip pointing down. When you want to use it, take the tip off, make sure both sides of the cartrige are flowing, and put on a new tip.

2. It will work for floors, but only the sheet metal. All the braces, and structural parts should be welded in. You need at least a 1" overlap, clean freshly ground metal is a must,and it has to be clamped very tight. Zip screws work well for this. After it sets up, pull the screws, and fill the holes with more adhesive. The excess adhesive can be sanded off after it sets up.

[AHotRod]

I was just thinking of using this stuff on a my "A"........

[banzaitoyota]

nice work Tinbender

[T McG]

I always like tech posts, but I'm always looking beyond the main focus of the picture, just like on the car related tv shows, I'm looking in the backround at equipment, the shop etc. This is a good tech, and GM has used similar stuff bonding door hinges, and it is nearly impossible to get off. But,what I really enjoyed about this one is the band-aid on the craftsmans left index finger. It reminds me of that wood worker guy on tv that uses all the old tools, and always ends up bleeding before the end of the show! Nice work.