How much would you pay for a 34 Ford 3W?

[CharlieLed]

I may be buying a set of molds for an un-chopped 34 Ford 3W body. Full fendered with running boards and two variations for firewalls and rear gas tank covers (one stock and one with a resessed license plate). My plan is to build a body for myself using high-tech carbon-fiber/kevlar material and lightweight structural support material. The next body would be built to order and sold to recoup my investment in the molds and materials.
I know that we all would rather have a metal body but those are getting very rare. If you could have a custom built lightweight glass body, how much would you be willing to spend on it?
Here's a pic of the completed car (the windshield looks odd because there is no trim around it),

[34Fordtk]

I will take one to cover my bird dog fee!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif J/K Good luck on your new venture.

[CharlieLed]

[ QUOTE ]
I will take one to cover my bird dog fee!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif J/K Good luck on your new venture.

[/ QUOTE ]
lol...I just got off the phone with the seller, seems like a nice guy and appears to know the business. The shipping will be a challenge, but nobody said it would be easy. The wife thinks I've lost my mind, but that's OK she leaves me alone when she thinks I'm unstable! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[SwitchBlade327]

How much work does it take to produce a body one you have the molds sitting in your shop? That and the materials are the biggest things in determining how much to sell them for. I'm sure you could sell a few just through the hamb though, and then more on ebay. I think it's a worthwhile investment if you have the know how to put the molds to use.

[PEDDRO]

I woulda thought that if anyone was going to mold a body out of Kevlar or Carbon Fibre that it would have been done by now by one of the current fibreglass repro makers.........??????? Too pricey? Technical difficulties?

Maybe HAMBers aren't the best ones to ask about how much we'd pay for a REPRO (eek!!) body either.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[34Fordtk]

I am sure that Charlie know more about the cost but generally glass cloth and polyester resin are fairly cheap.But you could make it out of carbon fiber and epoxy and the price goes up a lot.I know that is not a dollar figure answer but its the best I could do on short notice..... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[CharlieLed]

[ QUOTE ]
I woulda thought that if anyone was going to mold a body out of Kevlar or Carbon Fibre that it would have been done by now by one of the current fibreglass repro makers.........??????? Too pricey? Technical difficulties?

Maybe HAMBers aren't the best ones to ask about how much we'd pay for a REPRO (eek!!) body either.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I am an engineer and have a graduate degree in product development. As part of my thesis work I visited many manufacturing facilities including the Ford Research Labs and the Boeing "SwampWorks" in Seattle where they build the wings for the most advanced fighter aircraft ever built, the F-22 Raptor. Everyone should have the opportunity once in their lifetime to see a high-tech facility where supersonic aircraft are being constructed of "fiber reinforced plastics". Wings, nose cones for spacecraft, fuel cells, etc are all built with FRP of one sort or another.
As for cars, I am old enough to have lived through the 50's and have built hotrods with not much more than spit and baling wire to hold them together. Each trip down the road was an adventure, you never knew WHERE you were going to break down, just that you knew that you WERE going to break down before you got to your destination. I have no desire to relive those days, at least not from the standpoint of the unreliable junk that we were forced to drive. The "goldchainers" of the 50's were the guys who had enough money to buy a Lincoln engine or perhaps a hemi, they were the innovators who many of us today seek to imitate. There's nothing wrong with that, BUT I choose to follow the direction of the innovators...
As for whether a carbon fiber body is possible, sure it is...it's just not a profitable item for a company to market. Materials are far too expensive and the labor involved is much greater. From the technical side there is nothing, including steel, that is stronger, lighter, more resistant to changes in dimension (warpage, etc), than these new FRPs.
I think that there are many more HAMBers out there who embrace technology than one would imagine. Of course most do not advertise the fact as do I, but they are still out there nonetheless.

[296 V8]

I saw the photos of the molds on here the other day and to me it all looked a little incomplete. The molds that I have worked with have a lot more flanging that unbolts. Also I didnt see any molds for inner doors. As for working with carbon and kevlar its VERY spendy. I haven't done much with carbon but I have worked in kevlar a lot and I hate the stuff. Its a bitch to cut and it always has a fuzzy edge. OK for race stuff but would look bad on a hot rod. You get your best bang for your buck with hand layed glass in my opinion. I work on the side some times with a friend thats been doing glass work full time for about 35 years. we do a lot of road race and pro mod stuff.

[BigDaddySteamRoller]

Hey Charlie,

See that you are taking the plunge & getting that mold on EBay. Good luck with it if you do.

Steve

[PEDDRO]

So nobody's done a carbon fibre rod body, then?

That's all I was getting at, I thought.

[CharlieLed]

[ QUOTE ]
So nobody's done a carbon fibre rod body, then?

That's all I was getting at, I thought.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are some out there but not many. There's more money in building carbon fiber components for the rice rockets. As a side note, most all the carbon fiber parts you see today including hoods and scoops for the street racers are all laid up with regular polyester resin and not epoxy. Once again, it's the bling-bling and not the real thing...

[CharlieLed]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey Charlie,

See that you are taking the plunge & getting that mold on EBay. Good luck with it if you do.

Steve

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah Steve, I bought it... Now I just need to find a way to get it to San Diego from Tennessee.

[earl schieb]

Charlie, I'm probably less than a couple of hours away from your new toy(s)---let me know if I can help in any way.

Mike in TN

[JamesG]

Is'nt fiber glass cheaper than carbon-fiber?

[metalshapes]

Yeah, but you save a lot of money on DP 90...

[briggs&strattonChev]

FAKE BODIES, are you INSANE?? what a buncha cra..............oh nevermind im kidding lol http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

sounds like a pretty cool idea, I hope you have good luck and keep us posted!

[staleg]

Most carbon parts are made in vacum (room without air)because it is much more difficult to press out small air bubbles during the process than the 'glasg mat.

It's much more difficult to apply enough epoxy to the carbonfibermat than polyester to the 'glas mat too. The carbonmat is woven in a tighter way, so it will not "suck up" the epoxy so fast and so good.

If I were you I would have spoken to some professionals to hear what equipment they use and hear what they thaught about your plans and the equipment you have availiable.

Apaoligze the bad spelling. It were a lot of unknown words for me here...:)

[TINGLER]

Charlie,
I sent you an E-mail on all this stuff. Keep me informed about what you need...ok?

Congrats on getting the molds for that thing!

[continentaljohn]

Good luck Charlie, love to see a how too!!!

[wes]

keep us san diegans posted, i am interested
wes

[zman]

[ QUOTE ]
I woulda thought that if anyone was going to mold a body out of Kevlar or Carbon Fibre that it would have been done by now by one of the current fibreglass repro makers.........??????? Too pricey? Technical difficulties?


[/ QUOTE ]

There are a bunch out there, just go to one of the big drag races, you'll see more than your fair share of composite bodies. Not really cost effective for the street. There are also a lot of M/C fairings available in composites. Both my race helmets are composite, I think it's the whole vacum thing that makes it so expensive.

[CharlieLed]

[ QUOTE ]
Charlie, I'm probably less than a couple of hours away from your new toy(s)---let me know if I can help in any way.

Mike in TN

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks Mike, I have in-laws in Lebanon TN who could go over to Knoxville and pick it up for me. Maybe the wife and will fly back there after the weather clears up to make a visit with the family and then rent a truck to drive back. I might have an opportunity for a HAMB relay here so if anyone has stuff to move along the route from TN to SoCal you may want to start thinkin about it now. I will be in Charleston, SC in late March so maybe I'll just swing by TN on the way home and take care of it then.

TECH Discussion: There is a process now whereby you can do a complete layup, that is, spray the mold with gel coat first, when the gel coat is dry lay in ALL the fabric (glass or fiber), place all the supports, and then inject the resin under pressure. This is called RTM or resin transfer molding and since the part is manufactured under pressure with a 2-sided mold, then the inside is just about as smooth as the outside of the part. I have seen car bodies built this way at Tom McBurnie's place here in El Cajon, he builds 32 roadsters and the inside of the body looks damn near as smooth as metal. The finished part is also very thin and strong (not as thin as steel but definitely strong and light).

[Mike Paul]

How does it work? do you spray your fiberglass on the inside then take the mold apart later? Excuse my stupidity

[Spitfire1776]

There is a mountain bike company named Jamar that is manufacturing frames out of carbon fiber. A guy I know has one and it is damn impressive. The thing is it is relatively speaking cheap. And as I understand resins have come down in pric and processes are more refined. I might not hurt to approach Jamar, front yourself truthfully, and simply ask how they do their process cheap.

I think carbon fiber hoods for imports start at like $500, so might be able to use that as a basis. Approximately say 24 ft^2 at 1-2 ply, maybe triple coat resin...might have to check those figures, but around there....

[CharlieLed]

[ QUOTE ]
How does it work? do you spray your fiberglass on the inside then take the mold apart later? Excuse my stupidity

[/ QUOTE ]
The inside of the mold is coated with a "tooling" gelcoat and is very hard and durable, this is the red part of the mold that you see in the photo. The mold is prepped by applying several coats of mold release wax and then polished to a high gloss...the finish that you see now is the finish you'll see on the part when it's removed from the mold. After the mold is prepped, the entire inside mold surface is sprayed with gelcoat (a two part resin that will become the finished surface on the part). Once the gelcoat has setup then the fiber material and resin can be applied. The fiber/resin can be sprayed on from a chopper gun or hand laid in sheets using various weights of woven fiber matting.

[Model A Vette]

Didn't Total Performance do a carbon fibre T-bucket last year?

[**DONOTDELETE**]

CharlieLed....If you end up with that mold setup there's a possible market in laying up outer body skins for the folks building vintage race car replicas. You would need no structure inside...the skin would fit over the customer's frame/roll cage. The bodys that are currently available is very limited.

Something to consider at least. Here's an example.

[Elrod]

Hey! Did you win the eBay auction? Just curious! Looks like a great undertaking with the potential to recoup your investment! I guess it could pay for your entire rod project, right?

[34Fordtk]

Look at any Moto GP bike and you will see more carbon than you can stand(motor parts,rims,frames,brake rotors)! McLaren(F1) and Mercedes(CLK-GTR) both built their very high(very very high) end street/race cars from almost entirely carbon.The stuff is way to expensive for all but the goldest(is that a word??) of the gold chainers http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Like I said Charlie knows what and how to use and for a body like this glass and poly is the cheapest way to go. Epoxy would be a worth while up grade I think. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[CharlieLed]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey! Did you win the eBay auction? Just curious! Looks like a great undertaking with the potential to recoup your investment! I guess it could pay for your entire rod project, right?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yup, I won the auction...just have to get it home now. When I start doing the layups I'll be sure to take some pics of the process and post a tech write-up.

[laverda]

There is a cross Canada car trader mag that I am sure I saw an ad for a carbon body featured (body & year?) ... based in eastern Canada ... maybe as far as Nova Scotia?

I am not sure what happened but there may be other canuck-hambers who know something.

Looks like a nice challenging project! Though I prefer 'real steel' I admire any use of technology ... for roddin' reasons http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif My compromise was a Model A sedan instead of a coupe (32-34) ... ya do what ya gotta do http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Best of luck.

Later,
papa al

[safariknut]

[ QUOTE ]
There is a cross Canada car trader mag that I am sure I saw an ad for a carbon body featured (body & year?) ... based in eastern Canada ... maybe as far as Nova Scotia?



[/ QUOTE ]
Here is a pic(sorry for the darkness;the other pics I have are too large and I don't know how to reduce their size)of a 32 roadster body made of carbon fibre that I lettered last year.It does indeed come from Canada and the price then was $15,000 US for a bare body! Weighs 200 lbs.I can find out who made the body by calling the owner.
Ray