Ford 3-spd + OD toploader manual transmissions?

[zonkola]

What cars and trucks did the Ford Ford 3-spd + OD toploader manual transmissions come in? (Either cast iron or aluminum would work.)

[FencePost]

Late 70's Granada for one...

[zonkola]

Thanks, that one I know about (from Professor Fathackius's posts). '75-'78 Granadas, right? What other cars/trucks came with these transmissions?

[Elrusto]

I pulled one from a mid 70's F150. Be sure to get the shifter too because I wasnt able to find an aftermarket shifter for it.

[prime mover]

I just seen one in a 80 f-150 here at work but it was impossible to get parts for, I would'nt mess with one.

[Fat Hack]

Ha Ha Ha...man, I had a FLEET of V8 four speed Granadas at one time, too...never thought to stockpile those trannys, though....they're worth more than the whole rest of the car!!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[zonkola]

Thanks for the info! So, '75-'78 Granadas and some mid '70s to early '80s F150s. Did they come in anything else?

[Butch11443]

The early Lincoln's had one also. "40-41" up. Were an 8-bolt & used a torque tube driveshaft.
Butch

[zonkola]

Thanks Butch, but I'm thinkin' that's a whole different beast...

[laverda]

Hello,

I have an all aluminum Ford 3spd + OD (toploader style, Tremec?) that the swap meet seller said came from early 70's Mustang, Econoline, Bronco, F100 etc. It was thrown in for cheap so I grabbed it. It has a shifter that is mounted to a sliding tube gadget allowing for the trans to be mounted in various vehicles. I think it moves forward/back at least 5". My digging with serial numbers did not reveal too much. I have an old Hot Rod at home that may have some aditional info ... if usefull I will post.

A fellow HAMBer provided the following to my initial Q (17 May 2003)...
I have one of these in a 1980 Ford f100. It is very light and is mexican built.I had trouble with it jumping out of gear and had to install a new 2nd gear[300 bucks wholesale yrs ago]I bought a similar looking one in Portland a few years ago was from a mid size ford car. The case was the same but had a different input shaft. I think this is a very light trany and would check that the ratio's are decent. Typical ford thinking on mine. They put in a 2:75 rearend with the overdrive and the 302 would be at 1100 at 100km. and not have enough tourque to pull itself. [Would easly do 100km. in 2nd!]


Hmmm ... I guess I better swap the Hemi for a Pinto 4 banger in the A http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

later,
papa al

[redbeard]

I have one in my 57 ford f100, from the factory.
they are a borgwarner T86.

But maybe you mean top shift tranny and not top loader?
Top loader means you put the gears in from the top, no
side panel, but they shift on the side.

good luck

[zonkola]

Laverda - It sounds like what you got in trade is an SROD (Single Rail Overdrive) 3 + OD (which unfortunately is considered a bit of a red-headed stepchild transmission by Ford guys). The sliding tube gadget is a dead giveaway. The version I'm asking about is referred to as a SMOD (Side Mounted Overdrive), which has a reputation for being much more durable than the SROD.

Redbeard - I actually did mean toploader. The gears go in from the top, and it shifts from the side. Rumor has it that these transmissions can actually be turned into a four-speed toploader by changing the gears. The part number is T170F (Code-RUG).

Incidentally, David Kee considers this tranny to be a "Toploader imposter": http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm

[fastcat]

econoline vans

[zonkola]

Fastcat - Do you know which years/models of Econolines they came in?

[laverda]

[ QUOTE ]
... is an SROD (Single Rail Overdrive) 3 + OD (which unfortunately is considered a bit of a red-headed stepchild transmission by Ford guys)....... which has a reputation for being much more durable than the SROD.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Z. This may be a dumb Q http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but ... is this trans pretty much useless? I have thought about hooking it to the back of my 331 hemi, instead of the Powerflite that is currently there. Thanks.

later,
papa al

[laverda]

bttt ... last time. Thx.

[locklahn]

Have one in a 78 econoline van I just picked up.

[zonkola]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... is an SROD (Single Rail Overdrive) 3 + OD (which unfortunately is considered a bit of a red-headed stepchild transmission by Ford guys)....... which has a reputation for being much more durable than the SROD.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Z. This may be a dumb Q http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but ... is this trans pretty much useless? I have thought about hooking it to the back of my 331 hemi, instead of the Powerflite that is currently there. Thanks.

later,
papa al

[/ QUOTE ]

What I know about the SROD is mostly second-hand. Fat Hack & others would probably have more hard data for ya, and if you do a Google search on SROD you'll find a bunch of info. But from what I've read, an SROD might not be the best choice for a hemi. Whenever I see people talking (typing) about how it's "probably fine for a stock 4-banger", I start to get nervous...

[PetesPonies]

They also were found in Fox Mustangs behind V8 up to mid year 1983. At that point, the T5 was available . . so even 82 and early 83 Mustang GTs had them, as well as earlier Fox Mustangs, dating back to 79. They were found in lots of Ford trucks.

[FrozenMerc]

My T85 + R10 Borg warner unit came out of a 65 Galaxie. Alot of the full size cars had 3 spd + OD in the mid 60's.

[R Pope]

I ran an external-shifter SMOD in a '79 Mustang with a 375 horse 351W for a hundred thousand miles with no problems, still have it. Weird ratios, but hell for tough. It's based on the old top-loader four speed, so there's some strength there.
I sold a SROD to a guy with a 390/4speed Galaxie that he wanted to get better mileage with. As far as I know, it's still working for him.

[metalman]

I pulled one from a mid 70's F150. Be sure to get the shifter too because I wasnt able to find an aftermarket shifter for it.

I have a truck RUG toploader in my 57 Ranchero, Bolted a standard toploader Hurst shifter to it. Flop the 3/4 shift lever over and tweek the shift rod to fit, works fine.

[timothale]

ford trans info . In the 50's the toploader was used with smaller engines ...different design than the 40's top loaders. larger engines used the T 85 which has the round bottom side cover. T 85's were used by various other companies starting in the 40's .t 85's were the basic transmission that was redesigned to make the T 10 four speed .. some parts interchange between the t 85 and T 10 . Ford then made the top loader all synchro 3 speed. It was also used by GM in a few cars. Next was the Toploader 4 speed/ It had all the gears inside the main case. The heavy duty top loaders had the 1 3/8 input shaft. the O/d 4 speed changed gear internals so 3 rd gear was direct and the od used the gears that was 3 rd in former designs. OD spinning the gears results in more wear and less life. as stated before there were both side shift and the single rail shifter, Jeep also used the ford trans with a top cover shifter. some late model toploader/ O/D also use aluminum cases.

[Phil1934]

From another forum:
Two versions of the Top-Loader 4-speed were available. The cast iron version, called the RUG, has external linkage and is a direct swap for non-overdrive units. These are found in '77-'78 Granadas and Monarchs, '78-'79 pickup trucks and '78-'87 vans. They normally had internal ratios of 3.29:1, 1.84:1, 1.00:1 and .80:1.
The aluminum case version found in '79-'83 Mustangs and Capris is called the SROD, has internal shift linkage, an input shaft that is 11/16" longer than a normal Top-Loader with a shifter location 19" from the mounting flange. These usually had ratios of 3.07:1, 1.72:1, 1.00:1 and .70:1.
SROD's also came in '80-'83 pickup trucks. These are the preferred trans for early Mustangs as they have the same length input shaft and shifter location (15" from mounting flange) as a normal Top-Loader. Two different ratio sets were available: 3.01:1, 1.78:1, 1.00:1 and .79:1 or 3.25:1, 1.92:1, 1.00:1 and .78:1.

My experience with an '85 Fi50 is expect a 2000+RPM drop on shifts.

[flatjack]

I've got an aluminum 3 speed OD in my 39. It came from a mid 80's F-150 with a 300 inch 6. It has a top mounted shifter. OD is a 30% drop in rpm. Been in my car for 17 years now.

[Ford-Man]

I have a SMOD, or 3+1 overdrive trans going into my '49 F-1. If you have this trans, hold on to it! They are said to be as bullet proof as the old toploaders. (Havent driven on mine yet)...I got mine on an ebay auction for a little over 2 hundred bucks after it was rebuilt. The main problem is shifter availability. Hurst quit making them. My shifter is sloppy and the shift pattern is HUGE! Not that I mind, but reverse, 1st, and 3rd are about 4" away from the firewall. The shifter I need actually bolts up to the gear box where the tail shaft bolts on. Hurst made that exact shifter for a little while, but decided not to now that I need one! :D Mine I believe came out of a '78 E-150, but can be found in most 78 and 79 Ford trucks and vans with a manual trans (good luck). They are mostly all iron cases...while some lightweight trucks got the aluminum cases. These were also used in Jeeps with a different shifter. The Jeep shifter was a top mounted shifter that housed the shifter fork rail and the forks. Acording to all the info I can physically find, they only ran from the late 70's into the very early 80's and were dropped for weight reasons for the:

SROD transmissions are completely different than SMOD. SROD tranies are still 3-Speed+overdrive...but the overdrive is actuated by a rod that is on the top drivers side of the transmission. These are also aluminum cased for the most part and tend to be weak. I was told to stay away from the SROD trans if I was building for more than 250HP by many people. The SMOD is a full externally shifted toploader style trans whereas the SROD is fully internal. The SROD was also a very short lived trans because the T-5 was on the way.

The SMOD and SROD trannies get confused often, but if you take the time to look at them they are worlds apart both in construction and durability. SROD trannies were barely able to handle the cars they were put in from the factory. They are, for the most part, a restorers trans to keep things OE. The SMOD is, acording to David Kee, a toploader impostor because it looks almost identical to a 60's toploader. It is stronger, heavier, and longer lasting than the SROD, and parts (other than aftermarket shifters) are readily available for them. Any transmission shop can locate rebuild kits.

Sorry for the rant...I am just miffed that I cant get my shifter anymore! :mad:

[granny]

I've got an SROD that i'm thinking of installing non-overdrive gears and putting a jeep shift tower onto...basically turning it into an old school toploader with an aluminum case and getting rid of that weird SROD shifter.

[newfalconowner]

mustang ii's/pintos, granada,moncarchs,,late 70s early 80s.. not a high horse capable trans but good for 300hp maybe...

some info here

http://www.davidkeetoploaders.com/imposters.htm


heres one i have when i got it, then sorta cleaned up and used as a mock-up for making my floor and trans tunnel/firewall.. there the same as a regular toploader in appearance and shape

[TagMan]

My buddy scours the salvage yards within 100 mile radius and buys all of these he can get. Usually gets them for between $75-$150. He modifies them for use in banger Model A Fords. The A guys pay pretty good bucks for them.

[Mattilac]

I have a topshifted aluminum one. The shifter is built into the top cover. It would work well in a hot rod needing a forward shifter location. I put it behind a 292 for a few months until I went with a T5. It worked great on the highway with 3:89 gears. If you need one, I will sell it to ya.

[pdq67]

You might do your homework on the MOPAR/GM A833 4-speed stick OD tranny?

And from what I found, the RUG top-loader OD tranny doesn't have all that much of an OD gear in 4th if not mistaken.

It's been years tho....

pdq67

[Algon]

Ford-man if you can change the tail housing to a standard toploader, you can bolt a Hurst to it or you can simply make an adapter bracket. The worst you'll run into is the 3-4 shift is reversed for clearance of the large OD gear so you have to flip the Hurst arm or keep the stock one depending on the exact shifter you choose. I've converted a competition plus, a super shifter, and the Hurst version of the old Vertigate to these with minor hassle

1st through 3rd can take a beating stock but the draw back is only in power shifting the large diameter narrow 4th OD gear. If you make a clean shift and apply power on it it's fine but otherwise you'll shred it which is why the trans got a bad rep.The snycros/ bearings can also be upgraded to really beef it up making the only weak link the OD, just get the job done in 3 and cruise in 4th.

By the way they have a .85-.87 OD.... but the ticket is the deeper gearing in the trans so you can run less gear in the rearend.

[pauls fords]

Need parts for them 3 speed od's, try Mac"s transmissions on Cullen in Houston Texas, used to work for them and have bought parts pieces and gears.

[george5121]

There is some good reading here. Some not so good. I have not seen anything that really gets to the heart of the 3 speed OD toploader problem. Old toploaders have gears that are longer or wider but not necessarily stronger. At least not by much. SMOD has a larger front bearing than the old toploader. Big problem with the aluminum case tranny is machining and bearing quality. If you remove the bearing retainer and snap ring on an aluminum case tranny you should be able to remove the bearing with your finger tips. The rear bearing is the same way. Add that to the softer aluminum case and you know why they fail. I have all 4 of these units so I kind of know what is inside. No I'm not looking to sell anytime soon but If someone needs a picture of one or the other I can do that. The ford truck shifters are generally loose sloppy junk with a body nearly twice the size of the old Hurst.

[Broncoman75]

There is some good reading here. Some not so good. I have not seen anything that really gets to the heart of the 3 speed OD toploader problem. Old toploaders have gears that are longer or wider but not necessarily stronger. At least not by much. SMOD has a larger front bearing than the old toploader. Big problem with the aluminum case tranny is machining and bearing quality. If you remove the bearing retainer and snap ring on an aluminum case tranny you should be able to remove the bearing with your finger tips. The rear bearing is the same way. Add that to the softer aluminum case and you know why they fail. I have all 4 of these units so I kind of know what is inside. No I'm not looking to sell anytime soon but If someone needs a picture of one or the other I can do that. The ford truck shifters are generally loose sloppy junk with a body nearly twice the size of the old Hurst.

I think I for one would really find it valuable if you could post up some good pictures of each of these transmissions and label them so that its really easy to see which is which and so we can get a nice visual comparison.
So, do all of these transmissions have the same input shaft and bellhousing bolt pattern?
Thanks

[george5121]

I will see if I can post pictures in a couple of days. The all have the typical bolt pattern found on a 302. Old top loaders have the dual bolt pattern ie 62 and 82. Most SROD have both bolt patterns. The SMOD has only the 65 and later bolt pattern. Some TOD have both bolt patterns but the top left is not drilled through because of a difference in case casting. They all have a 6&1/2 inch input shaft except for the big block toploader. Big block toploader has a 6 inch shaft. Other toploaders are classified as small block. These all use the same slip yoke. Some old toploaders have larger diameter input and output shafts.

[george5121]

Not sure how to do this so I guess one picture at a time:confused:

Old toploader 4 speed no OD. Speedo opening on right side.
Right side of case is flat. Looks like SMOD except for tail housing is different has dual bolt pattern on front. SMOD has hump on right side to make room for OD gear.

[george5121]

SROD comes in 2 wheel drive and 4 wheel drive. Used in some mustangs.
The small opening on the left side is the shift turret. Car or truck it's the same except for the tail housing.

[george5121]

SMOD, Has bigger bearings than a 4 speed. Same bearings as most Spicer 5 speeds found in C-60 chevy truck. Left side speedo Right side hump for OD gear. All 4 speed overdrives have three different gear ratio setups.
6 cyl, 302, and 351. Has only 1 bolt pattern for mounting. Pay no attention to holes around retainer this box is about to have a new life.

I have never seen one but it also comes in 4X4.

[george5121]

TOD 2 wheel and 4 wheel versions. Bolt holes for mounting vary. I have 3 that are all different. (some holes drilled some not) Same gears same tranny just a stick on top. Everything inside is interchangable into other OD cases. Changing another case to a top shift is a lot more work than you are hearing. it is not that simple. Holes to drill and thread in case grinding to do and shim bushings to make for shift fork.

Look at bolt holes not all go through.

[george5121]

Couple of other minor details on the toploaders. OD boxes have a thicker bearing retainer to make room for bigger bearings.

Not all speedo gears are the same. Sure there are different teeth counts but some are also cut in the opposite direction.
You may have the right count but if it is cut in the wrong direction it will live a short life. Little things like this is why they are Fix Or Repair Daily. Ford has many parts that bolt together just fine and appear to work, but only hours or a few days.

Big Block Toploaders, no OD, have a 6 inch input shaft. All others that I know of are 6&1/2. :eek: :confused: :p

Unfortunately as much as I do know about these there is still probably a lot I do not know.

[AllSteel36]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... is an SROD (Single Rail Overdrive) 3 + OD (which unfortunately is considered a bit of a red-headed stepchild transmission by Ford guys)....... which has a reputation for being much more durable than the SROD.


[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Z. This may be a dumb Q http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif but ... is this trans pretty much useless? I have thought about hooking it to the back of my 331 hemi, instead of the Powerflite that is currently there. Thanks.

later,
papa al

[/ QUOTE ]

What I know about the SROD is mostly second-hand. Fat Hack & others would probably have more hard data for ya, and if you do a Google search on SROD you'll find a bunch of info. But from what I've read, an SROD might not be the best choice for a hemi. Whenever I see people talking (typing) about how it's "probably fine for a stock 4-banger", I start to get nervous...




Just wanted to point out, EVEN OLD SCHOOL HAMBERS...reply to 5 year old threads.




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