What does it take to make a gasser engine?

[El Caballo]

I don't know squat about gassers, enlighten me.

[plan9]

me too, while youre at it...

[Hot Rod To Hell]

I've got a project 55 Chevy with a 454 (mice livin in the motor!), my dad & I been sittin on it for about 6 yrs. After seein how trendy 55's are now, I told him I wanna somethin a little different, i wanna do it up like an old gasser. Right now it has a 'glass front end, 10 pt cage, and a 5.13 geared 57 pontiac rear. The guy we bought it from raced it in the 70's (he had a tunnel rammed 327 in it). I'm thinkin I beam axle, radius the rear wheel openings, and then Hilborn injection (converted to EFI) on a BIG (500+ cid) big block (tell everyone it's a 427, then it's cool ) Still in the dreamin stages right now, but it shouldn't be too long...

[plan9]

cool man, deffinately hook up the 55 as gasser!

but lets say you want to run in the class, whats it take?... are there certain spec's the motor/car needs to have?

[Bruce Lancaster]

Step one would seem to be to pick a specific tine period and then get an NHRA (or whatever) rule book from that year and read the gas class section. Some reading of period magazines with coverage of events would also be useful.

[drgnwgn289]

I think the whole concept of a gasser is to build a bad ass motor that still runs on gasoline, thats where the word comes from, as opposed to a "fulie" car. Then there were different classes within the gas class for blowers and injection and stuff. I think thats pretty much how it works, but I don't really know...I wasn't around back then.
Like Hot Rod to Hell, I also have a 55 post that (if Big Ric or his friend doesn't buy it) will end up with a blown 472, straight axle and all the other bad ass shit that makes a car totally impracticle for street driving.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

You need to get ahold of whatever sanctioning body you'll be racing with. Each group has different rules. You should be able to find most of the class rules on the web, but if not, I'm sure the organizations will be more than happy to SELL you a rule book!

[rickyracer1962]

main ingredients, fenderwell headers with exhaust cut outs, tunnel ram or blower, healthy motor with alot of cam!

[Nick32vic]

Hey, Hot Rod To Hell, I thought a 454 was a RAT motor not a Mouse motor? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif [ QUOTE ]
I've got a project 55 Chevy with a 454 (mice livin in the motor!),

[/ QUOTE ]

[Mike Landwehr]

Kind of a wide open ???, but here goes- ANY motor from the period your looking at buicks and BIG time Olds + Pontiacs,baby hemi's to 392's and of sbc/bbc,It was a time when inovation and experimentation was the norm , some things worked and some did not and were passed over,My 57 gasser had both 327+ 396/4 spd. at dif. times, my 56 delivery had a PONTIAC lrg CI motor/4 spd,not to mention the SBC and BBC(mostly later) built with ALL period pcs including Isky roller cams , hydro + stick 4 spds + alum BBC/327 PG's(yes, they were there too), inductions ran tha gamat from stack fulies to 3,4+6 carbs,tunnel rams,cross rams, and finally blowers(in certain classes, HIGH rpms were the norm and 5 grand starts were kool , so they built em TOUGH, to live in that environment, DEEP rear gears like 5:13 to 6:10's, posi's were'nt around til later(well, they were but the periods current tech made em undependable), but spools and locking spiders were the rule.Truck rears , Olds /pontiac rears and Chrys. 8 3/4's were the preffered usage.9" were there but very few as tech had'nt made them popular yet, hope this helps.well said already but get a time period rule book , (forget NHRA) they are no help and MOST gassers will not be able to run NHRA w/o serious safety legal upgrades that will and do ruin the gasser character unless you stay 12.0. or slower (whats the point?)AND you WILL run against Mustangs and camaros in the BRACKETs classes, I was informed of this at B.I.R.'s 4 july race,I was also told by one track official that they are NOT interested in going BACKWARDS,Funny considering it was these vary cars that BUILT NHRA and made spectatorship popular, read that as $$$$-Mike

[four-thirteen]

Screw the NHRA. No, more like screw the modern NHRA. They are too busy cashing in on sponsers to care what the racers are doing.

From what I understand, the Gas class was supposed to be what appeared to be street legal cars running on gas. Beyond that I don't think it matters if it was a big cube hemi powered '33 willys or a 265 55 chev, as long as it looked like it had head and taillights.

I'd like to find out the exact rules for the gas altered and super stock classes around 1962 or 1963. I've searched my catalog of hot rods and such, and the only info I've got is what racers used on their cars that were shown in the articles.

Like Mike said, 300+ cube motors, high revs, 57 olds and pontiac rears, hydros and stick trannys were in. Who ever had a reliable car and came up with something new seemed to win, and next week everyone had his new inovation. Make sure its got a bunch of carbs, a small fuel tank, masking tape numbers on the doors, and super sticky recap tires. Dave

[AHotRod]

This is my "Gasser", 90% done.
In the beginning....
The class was for street driven (no trailers), street legal (glass,wipers,exhaust systems,full interior) cars with a minimum of a 90 inch wheelbase. You could put any 6 or V8 engine in it, headers, 4 speeds and hydromatics.
The classes were based on Pounds-per-cubic inch.
Later on, supercharged classes were also offered.

[AHotRod]

To continue...
My car is based on the '59-'61 era, Chevy 385 stroker engine, 4 speed,fenderwell headers,White and Red pleated interior, 100% street legal, pie-crust rear tires on steel rims, old Ansen front wheels.

[skull63]

im just about to start on my gasser project. its a57FORD 2 door wagon .im using 55 F-100 front axle and leaf springs ,cutting off the stock front frame and replacing with 2x4 tubing ,relocating the rear spring inboard and using lift bars , not going to tub it or anythng just going to put the widest tire that will fit probably a max of 11 inches .noinner fender wells in front with fenders and hood welded together and hinged at the front. big block , fenderwell headers . heres a before shot of it.

[plan9]

right on for the info's/pics guys! now i just need mike L's 57 gasser, slap my big block/400 in there, and im ready to roll http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[HairyCanary]

How's this? A 292 with 327 "462" heads, Hilborn injection, S&S fenderwell headers, Cal Custom covers, Moon timing cover and pan and a Vertex mag. Just need to install the NOS Packard 440 wires.

[warpigg]

[ QUOTE ]

What does it take to make a gasser engine?

I don't know squat about gassers, enlighten me.

[/ QUOTE ]

at least 10 grand... i think http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
seriously: see TRJ # 15

[plan9]

10 g's? naaaaahhh.... guess it would really depend on how fast you want to go or how well you can hide the nitrous plumbing

[DrJ]

[ QUOTE ]
.... guess it would really depend on how fast you want to go....

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't want to go the fastest and be there the quickest, what's the point?

Seriously! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[gasser]

Pounds per cubic inch dictated what class you ran in along with maximum engine set back, measured from front axle centreline to No1 plug. Worth getting a hold of Supercharged Gas coupes by Don Montgomery. He covers alot of the rules for A/GS B/GS C/GS that were enforced. Initialy I think the shortest wheelbase allowed was 100" but then it changed to 90" thats when the Anglia's and Austins became popular and the guys in the bigger cars tried to get then outlawed, then they tried to get them to race in the unblown classes. 90" + lots of HP = Good Time !

[Mike Landwehr]

An engine could look like this one that was in my 57 gasser-now slated for the 56, It was that attitude from NHRA that helped convince me that an all drag car (tho licensed) is not for me,Hence the 56 delivery street/drag car, If I can't go as fast as my car is able AND maitain period coerrectness, I'm NOT interested anymore.Things like hoop bars and belts I can see, but 8-10 points -NOT

[John Copeland]

I did race back in that era, so I'm probably qualified to give this question a fair shot. Any engine can be a "Gasser Engine", that was not the criteria that established the Gas Class. In the early 60s, Junior Stock was a huge class and rules allowed for any combination of factory equipment to be utilized in a body by the same manufacturer. Example, I used a 57 Chevy nine passenger stationwagon, the one with three rows of seats, excellent weight transfer, 283 H.P., 283 cubic inch bored to 292, which was legal in stock classes, .010 overbore. Four speed and a 5:13 Chevrolet rear end, Doug headers and a few other mods. The car was a record holder in F/S. In the later part of the 60s NHRA rules changed, which in effect, took some of the best and fastest cars out of competition, including me. The rules were changed to only allow for equipment combinations that were offered in the body being used, obviously the 283 fuelie motor was not an option in the 9 passenger wagon. My choices would have been to use a "power pack", single four barrel engine and either a powerglide or three speed off the column to continue to compete in a stock class. Back then there was also a class known as pure stock, the cars had to be show room perfect with essentially no modifications, the class sucked! In the same period, there was also a class called Modified Production, in this class you could take an essentially stock car, install an aftermarket camshaft, larger then stock specs and have to run M/P. I had a 55 Nomad with a 365 H.P. 327, Muncie 4 speed, Hooker headers, 5:13 gear, etc., and ran E/MP. That class destinction was determined by weight to cubic inch ratio. Modified Production was just that, a modified production passenger car with a limitation on the modifications. An example of the limitations were such things as suspension modifications or even removing the bumpers. I took the front bumper off of the Nomad one weekend and the car fell into D/Gas. So came to be the Gas Class; streight axels which afforded us better weight transfer with the nosebleed atitude, multiple carbs, Hilborne and other injections were popular and no blowers. The blower cars fell into a class of their own. Stone, Woods & Cook, K.S. Pittman, Ohio George Montegomery, etc. ran A/GS or later AA/GS and again, the class determination was made considering cubic inch to weight ratio. The main difference between Gas and M/P, was that in Gas, you could run any body / engine combination. In one of the previous posts in noticed a Willys being built as an old style Gasser and I'll use that as an example, I've seen that same body run F, G & H Gas with 6 bangers or small displacement V-8s of many varities, I've also seen it run A/G and A or AA/GS with blown Hemis or Ford 427 Cammers. So..............Gasser Engine? Bone stock 283 in a Henry J, and it doesn't have to be sky high in the front end to be a Gasser, using the old criteria. Not trying to be a smart ass, but I think what I see, rather then an engine issue, is guys trying to replicate "The Look", and one of the most commonly used configurations was the I beam axel, slicks extending out past the sheet metal, narrow front wheels without brakes and Hilborne stacks sticking up through the hood. Now, this should draw some fire...................all those mods that replicate the desired look are great on the 1320 but on the highway will certainly offer the opportunity for a "Death Rod"! I spent last weekend at Indy and my observation of the Pro Mod cars of today is this, they are a direct spin-off of the AA/G Supercharged cars of the past, the biggest difference being that they don't run nitro as a fuel.

Shoe

[John Copeland]

The little Thames panel in the previous post is more then likely a A/GS car. Big blower motor in a light vehicle. If you were to take the carbs off, add injection on the top of the Blower and use Nitro, now were talking AA/GS. Huge attention getters of the past and a handfull to drive.

Shoe

[raven]

I, for one, appreciate the specific info offered up by Mr. Copeland.
I didn't run back then, I just watched.
r

[Jim Marlett]

I'm pretty darned sure they didn't use nitro in gassers in the '60s. Gassers were just that - gassers. As I recall, the blown cars were A/GS, B/GS and C/GS. This may have been changed to AA/G or AA/GS and so on. The disclaimer here is that I didn't run a gasser back then, only lived and raced during the era. I also had much more experience with AHRA than NHRA, but I still maintain that gassers ran gas. The photo is one of my favorite gassers, the Nail and Holzman B/GS car that ran at our local track and was a record holder. This car is still owned by the Holzman family and is still raced weekly by the original Holzman's grandson. However, it is a naturally aspirated bracket car now, but it still has the look.

[El Caballo]

Shoe, you are the man...

[plan9]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
.... guess it would really depend on how fast you want to go....

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't want to go the fastest and be there the quickest, what's the point?

Seriously! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

iam afraid ta go fasta, docta! wouldnt how fast you want to go depend on the pocket book size? at 17 i worked my ass off for about 6mo. just to add $3k+ worth of engine specific gear, tools, machining (including breakage)... i probably should add ...ignorance enduced fuckups, and getting proper tools to the equation.

Was I the only teenager who lusted for Morticia Addams?


shit no, and she was probably in her 50s by the time it was my turn.... that broad was the template for your modern goth sluts! THANKS YOUS MORTICIA

[plan9]

ill iterate what caballo said... shoe, you are the man...

[Mike Landwehr]

Shoe is correct, that is how i remember em as well,There is a lot of misinfo that ALL gassers had fenderwells and straight axles or Ball joint spacers when nothing could be further from fact.that era only lasted a short time and was in fact not even an era, but a few years only, exaust cutouts (the cable kind , not the current electrics,were from a previous era - FLATHEAD- and none that I remember ran em , most the ones I recall had lakes plugs or 3 bolt dumps out the side off of the headers and (for a street car)full exaust back or simply flipped up and bolted out of the way, The M/P classes were in fact a lot of fun as they were "our" cars that we drove to school/work etc.AND affordable,as racing gets anyway-NEVER cheap in ANY era except in comparison to now, when the average garage guy pulled a whole $1.25 an hour compared to $9-10 now.

[Mike Landwehr]

here is my 56's front suspension, originally 60's done and era correct.

[John Copeland]

Thanks for the positive thoughts guys. A/GS cars did in fact run on gasoline, without question. AA/GS cars, ran on fuel, that was the distinction of being a AA competitor. Guys like the Hill Brother's, Red Baron and Jack "the Bear" Coonrod both ran AA/GS and I assure you, they ran Nitro. You could have exchanged the bodies on the AA Gassers with a AA/FA like the Winged Express, and virtually had the same car. Every year here at National Trails and this weekend is an example, because Super Chevy is here this weekend. All the advertisements and I'll quote, "come out and see the Nitro Coups", it's total bull shit, because those are the old fuel coupes that are now running Alky.

Shoe

[Rocket88]

AHotRod, your Willy's is the shit! It gives me goose bumps just looking at it.
Shoe, great info. 5:13's, a stick and a 292, how high did you rev that thing? Sounds like a fun ride!

[plan9]

mike L. - you gonne make that wagon into a gasser, or make it a cruiser? the 57 is a tantalizing purchase, but id be a damn fool to get another project

shoe - pro mod is probably the only modern class i like. if iam correct, they seem to be engineered like funny cars, go the almost same speeds, but run different induction/fuel/displacements/power additives than the funny car class, which seems to be more strict...

[John Copeland]

Rocket88, the 292 was an over bored 283 horse 283 that had been blueprinted and ballanced. It ran respectable 12:90s in 1965 when it was the F/S National Record Holder. The car was named the "Bad Bananna" and we ran it at the old Niagra Dragway when it was sanctioned by both NHRA & NASCAR, now don't tell me NASCAR never sanctioned a Drag Strip. Does any body remember when Richard Petty had the fatal accident, making a 1/4 Mile pass in his Hemi Cuda? The Bananna was maxed at about 7500 RPM going through the lights, 098 cams were mechanical but they had limits. I can remember seeing E/G 55 chevys, 292 powered, going through at 10,500, aluminum flywheels, 6:86 gears and Crane roller cams! I cut my teeth at Niagra and one of the kings of the hill back then was a local boy that ran a little shop called GORDEN Automotive, I remember the guy having a Austin A-40, AA/GSupercharged and then put the drivetrain in a Opel Cadet.........today the same guy builds Pro Mod engines and his name is Jimmy Oddy. In the Webster's, you'll find Jim Oddy under the definition of Gasser! Pro Mods equal, Funny Car wearing an old suit, either blown on gas or normally asperated on the bottle. You have to be insane like Scotty Cannon to drive one. I'm going to edit this by saying; I called a couple of guys I know who worked on the Shores & Hess, Little Critter, and the King Kong AA/GS Anglias, Although Jeg Senior did run a blown Austin A-40 along with Bob Riffel of the once Rod Shop, here in Columbus, they were of the lower gas class. The guys tell me this, " my tours in Nam must have warped my fucking mind" or meeting the infamous Jesse James at Indy last Sunday, made me relapse.........non of the Gas cars ran Nitro, the AA guys were classified as such, because of the Elephant motors and plastic, weigh nothing, bodies! So, although I have made myself look like a pompous ass on the "Information Highway", it's more important to me, to pass on the little bit I know, to the young HAMBers with some degree of correctness. Save the disclaimer my dear friend, your 100% correct. Oh yea, the guys at Jeg's that were with me in this era, also ask me if I had lost it! Have a good evening.........tomorrow will be a better day!



Shoe

[Mike Landwehr]

John C. I can assure you that no one thinks your a pomus ass , I'm nearly on a 5000 grand red line (near 50 )myself and love that these cars are coming back , It really brings back a time I've sorely missed,A lot of my memories are admittedly of a local track + magazine type, with owning/racing some 7 or so ex gassers in my career/hobby , VERY good info you gave there -Thanks
9- I'd love to sell you that car ,but I understand the distances and moneys involved, It will most like be put to pasture for now- I HAVE to have this place cleaned up b4 winter, b4 I bring in the 56, Its still up in the air about style, It may go a gasser resto OR HollyWood Knights-Turks Pie Wagon (semi clone-NOT a FAKE), in either case -a street only/expo car, they won't let me run here as an correct car and go as fast as I can, so screw em, I'll run the local 8th mile unsponsored track w NO BS rules.Beyond common sense safety ones. If I had to choose a current class I gues it would be the progas, it seems there are still some old timers + old cars there.

[slingshot]

I remember the
gassers as running on gas in the 60's, it didn't matter whether you ran a flattie in "D" gas or a 392 in "A" gas, a SBC in "C" gas. The designator changed to a "double" when you added a blower. As in "A" class changed to "AA" by adding a blower. The classes were decided on by lb/ci.
AA/GS was the fastest and quickest. You could run injection in any class, some ran carburetors. All on gas.
NOW virtually any so called "gas" car runs on Alcohol.If they don't they won't win. I don't have a clue why the "gas" cars run alky but they do. I never saw a "gas" car run anything but gas, back when.
BTW, at this site there is a photo album on the old G/S cars plus resto's www.nitrogeezers.com (http://www.nitrogeezers.com) Also go to www.gassermadness.com (http://www.gassermadness.com) and look around. Say "Hi" to Byron (site owner)

[Donzie]

I've had thoughts of building a street/gasser style using my '29 Model A sedan body, channeled heavy (not chopped) over a Model A frame, either suicide front end or straight axle...this is the best part, using a 235 straight 6 and 3 speed. Zommies would be the coolest with a couple 3 carbs. Would this turn some heads or is it just a bad idea?

[plan9]

haha shoe, aint no way in hell you look like a pompus ass. the info provided by you, Mike L and others is from the source, better than a magazine anyday. it seems like gassers ran the gamut when it came to timeslips, what were they? 12sec-8sec? or if my memory of other posts is correct , so long as it is rolling pump gas and is of a certain weight + engine combo, its a gasser? hypothetical situation... if i wanted to roll 10's with a 35 p/u, 500ci cad motor 92 octane, weighing about 2500-2600 pnds with me in it... what class gasser would that be?

Mike L..- youre right, lots of rules in order to race, even after all the bs you gotta go through, and all the money spent, one slip and youre out on the first run! guess thats part of the challenge eh? been thinking about your 57 eventhough i wont be able to work on it until my current projects are finished..i have one spot in the garage open up in central california. ill have to look over the finances... if its doable, we will be doing business http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

this thread, sams 10sec buildup as well as the other drag car buildups before the HAMB drags is fun readin. i dig the customs and hotrod cruisers, but id like to build my car to pump the adrenaline and to mellow out on a nice day.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

I totally agree with everyone. It's so awesome to sit here and listen to (read) everything all the OLD guys have to say. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif
It's like sittin and listening to my gramps tell all his war stories before he died..... It's a period I've always been interested in, and I'm way too young to know what's up with that stuff. And you guys are right, it blows the hell outta anything you'll find in a magazine!

LET'S HEAR IT FOR THE OLD GUYS!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[whitewallslick]

For those interested ... I posted a few pages from the 1964 NHRA rulebook regarding gas class rules. Enjoy! WWS
Pages 8-9 (http://simoncomputerservice.com/pics/64rulebook/89.jpg)
Pages 10-11 (http://simoncomputerservice.com/pics/64rulebook/1011.jpg)
Pages 12-13 (http://simoncomputerservice.com/pics/64rulebook/1213.jpg)
Pages 20-21 (http://simoncomputerservice.com/pics/64rulebook/2021.jpg)
Pages 22-23 (http://simoncomputerservice.com/pics/64rulebook/2223.jpg)
Pages 24-25 (http://simoncomputerservice.com/pics/64rulebook/2425.jpg)
Pages 26-27 (http://simoncomputerservice.com/pics/64rulebook/2627.jpg)
Pages 28-29 (http://simoncomputerservice.com/pics/64rulebook/2829.jpg)

My Gasser!!
http://simoncomputerservice.com/pics/wag.JPG

[Paul]

WWS, I dig your car man, but I can't read a word of the book.

Paul

[Mike Landwehr]

9 -hope we can work it out,it has definate possilblity's
WWS , Kool! I get about 30 emails a week looking for that very info. I only go back to 70 in my info.
everybody- I just posted a pile of "gasser" related parts on my web site/group for anyone looking for some stuff.not posted are the 3 rear ends 74 Dart 8 3.4, 55 pont wgn and 2 3:55 chevy rears ,Link in my profile. web page (http://groups.msn.com/nostalgiagasserdragracingpics)
I put it in here.

[John Copeland]

Having provided some accurate and some not so accurate information relative to the "Gasser Wars", I'll post or at least attempt to, a picture of my current ride. I've had this car for 15 years and when I hauled it out of the hills of West Virginia, it sat 21 inches higher in the front and had a wide chevy rear end sticking out beyond the fenders. Had I known then, what I know now, I may have left it alone. It's definitely a sleeper; 355 inch small block, Comp Cam, .477 .480, headers, RPM Performer heads, Harland Sharp roller rockers, chrome moly push rods, steel crank, dart rods, forged flat top pistons, Mallory mechanical Unilite, dual quads, 500 CFM Edelbrock performers, Vintage Edelbrock finned valve covers and Moon side breathers, one of Dennis O'Brien (Truckers) finned aluminum air cleaners, 2500 stall Hole Shot converter, ladder bars and a 3:55 8'
posi. This car runs extreamly strong and goes streight as a string. So, this is what an X Gasser guy does to kill time and I did it in a two gar garage with the help af some great friends!

Shoe

[skull63]

whitewallslick,man that car is bitchin !
thats what im shootin for with my 57 FORD wagon.
how did you do the front framrails ?o.e. or rect.tube?
do you have any construction pics?