CHASSIS, Reversing spring eyes...

[loudpedal]

Here are the links to the previous posts on Mother Goose's Roadster:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=89536
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=80199


We have decided that the aftermarket front axle had to go. The car demands a more period piece, so we dropped a stock Ford axle 4 inches so we can use it instead. You have to use a longer spring with the Ford axle and it just so happens that I’ve had this one from a Model A bouncing around in the back of my truck for a few weeks, so we are going to use it also. With it all mocked, the car now sits too high in the front, so we had to reverse the eyes on the spring.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0864.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0865.jpg

[loudpedal]

We are going to use stock Model A perches, shackles and shocks also…

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0866.jpg

[loudpedal]

We removed the main leaf from the pack..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0867.jpg

[loudpedal]

Traced the arc of the main leaf onto the floor with chalk as a reference. Here’s a little tip if you are going to try this: Don’t make your chalk line right where you’ll be working so your feet won‘t erase it! (…learned that the hard way)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0868.jpg

[loudpedal]

Rather than use the '2 bricks and a hammer' method, we built this jig instead. We made chalk marks every 1 inch on the spring, then moved the spring to each chalk mark after we pushed on it a little with the bottle jack.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0869.jpg

[loudpedal]

Just kept working it back and forth until the arc of the spring matched the one we traced on the floor 5 minutes earlier (yes it was that easy).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0870.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0871.jpg

[loudpedal]

With the eyes now reversed, the second leaf will no longer fit onto the main leaf, so the edges were trimmed.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0872.jpg

[loudpedal]

With the spring back on the car, the front is about an inch lower and sits just right…

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0873.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0884.jpg

[loudpedal]

Tomorrow we finish the wishbone mounts…

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0880.jpg

[briggs&strattonChev]

thanks!

[Crazy Backyard Builder]

LoudPedal,

You made that look easy !



CBB

[Paul]

nice simple tech

thanks!

[bcarlson]

Excellent! That is awesome! A question for the metallurgy guys... does this cause any negative effects? Is the spring less... er... 'Springy' after doing this? How about safety-wise... any chance of stress cracks, or failure at speed (above and beyond the original chances I mean)?

Ben

[modifieddriver]

I like this idea. Similar to the way they do it at a spring shop, but more precise and more controllable. If ya' have press in your shop, make a fixture and away ya' go.

I've been doing it the hammer and anvil method (but I don't have an anvil!). Here' what I've been using. It's an old rail road rail anchor plate that has a nice step in it.

All this reminds me of the old phrase, "Don't work harder, work smarter". Looks like ya' got me beat in the smarts department :o .

[loudpedal]

...I've been doing it the hammer and anvil method ...

Yes, we tried it that way. Man what a lot of hammering without any noticable results! So we built the jig instead. It works great and it's simple.

[Bass]

That's way better than wailing on it with a hammer. Nice work!

A related question...are you going to c-notch the rails above the spring?

That car is looking great!

[k-member]

You guys are awesome, great tech!

[Tman]

Nice, did it take a lot of pressure at each point on the spring? Or did you just sneak up on it?

[Mike Zenor]

Very nice! This needs to go in the Techo-o-matic forum.

I also want to hear from the metallurgists whether this has any adverse effects on spring integrity. I've heard that it's okay to reverse the eyes on the front spring, but that it's potentially dangerous on rear springs, but I've never quite understood why... anybody have a quick explanation?

[sodas38]

Geesh, that looks too easy, I'll find a way to screw that up though :) Great tech!!!

[chrisntx]

Tomorrow we finish the wishbone mounts…

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v469/loudpedal/PICT0880.jpg


Are your tires gonna hit the radius rods?

[loudpedal]

...are you going to c-notch the rails above the spring?


I don’t think that we will have to notch the frame. I’ve jounced the suspension and the spring doesn’t seem to come close to hitting the frame, but we still haven’t decided to do it or not yet… Does anyone have any input on notching the frame? Do you think it would be a problem if we didn’t do it??

[loudpedal]

... did it take a lot of pressure at each point on the spring? Or did you just sneak up on it?
Just a little pressure is all it took, and we just went at it real nice and slow. Real easy to do…

[loudpedal]

Are your tires gonna hit the radius rods?
We planned on mounting the rear of the wishbones as far inboard as possible with the tie rod on the inside of the wishbone bracket. This moves the rear of the wishbones as far to the center of the car as possible, and when we mocked it last night, it kind of looked as if the wishbones were not cut at all. The spindles hit the steering stops before the tire hit the wishbone with gobs of clearance.

[buschandbusch]

Do you think it would be a problem if we didn’t do it??


my spring (non reversed eyes stock suspension) sits about that close to the frame (just looking at the pics), and hits on potholes. Mine is also missing a couple leaves so that makes a difference, but you may want to put a rubber bumpstop

[modifieddriver]

I'm no metallurgist, but I can tell why it's dangerous to do the rear spring main leaf.

Seems to me I remember a fella doing both the front and rear at the same time. The rear broke, but the front didn't. So based upon this single test case it has been deemed dangerous ever since to do the rear.

But, wait a minute. I still have the story wrong. The info didn't come from the guy that actually did it. The story of the incident originally really came from his grandpa, who told his stepson's buddy's son, who then told of the problem to his cousin's step father. Ya' get the picture here :rolleyes: .


I also want to hear from the metallurgists whether this has any adverse effects on spring integrity. I've heard that it's okay to reverse the eyes on the front spring, but that it's potentially dangerous on rear springs, but I've never quite understood why... anybody have a quick explanation?

[302GMC]

I'm sure happy I found this - now, where were you 40 years ago ???
Thanks for another great do-it-yourself !
302

[Tetanus Shot]

this is a very helpful tech thread, thanks for the information it will help me alot

[leon renaud]

Hey as a working blacksmith I gotta agree your way is FAR easier I didn,t think you could press a spring into shape I have done several front springs by the old method and one of the tricks is you use 2 "anvils"and strike between them I have 2 sections of railroad rail about a foot long welded to a piece of scrap plate so there are about 8-12 inches between the tops you strike between these.Now I cold flatten springs in the same way for making throwing knives I usualy use broken A springs because i get them from a restorer friend free. cold forming and careful grinding/shaping gives me a bowie blade that tests 58-60 rockwell without retempering etc.that would be needed in forgeing blades.I'm no metalurgist but its my guess that doing a rear spring causes trouble because of the shape that has to be reversed it's the same material as a front but more of a complex shape to reverse by hammering.I'm thinking of A or T rears here would bet it would be just as easy to reverse in your press as a front just take a bit longer.looks like I'll be dumpster diving at work tomorrow for the parts to my spring press.this is definiatly a post for the tech section .I learned how to reverse spring eyes before i got into blacksmithing from a late 40s car mag that ran an article on dago axles I think it was about mor drop foundry but the book has been lost for a real long time I got it as a kid in late 60s

[curbspeed]

I notched mine and plated the inside for strength. I would suggest it. We got big potholes up our way sometime. And if you guys are gonna come back up this way ever you might need the extra room. Keep in mind the weight of that slug you got in there. Those friction style shocks went outta vogue for a reason and your gonna need the extra clearance. By the way I'm using a similiar setup in my 34 project. Looks awesome Chris. Good job. How's the rest of the gang doing?

[loudpedal]

... The info didn't come from the guy that actually did it. The story of the incident originally really came from his grandpa, who told his stepson's buddy's son, who then told of the problem to his cousin's step father... !:)! That is the way I feel about a lot of things I hear..

[loudpedal]

... where were you 40 years ago ???...
Ha! I wasn't born yet!

[loudpedal]

... I would suggest it. We got big potholes up our way sometime...
Wait... Your roads are kinda rough up there? You are kidding me right?:rolleyes: I think we will notch it. Were at that point, so why not right? Everyone is doing good Dale, just working away... You know how it is...

[47bob]

Havn't done it but I would think reversing the eyes would require heat which would do more damage than beating in it with a hammer. Just my warped way of thinking. Bob

[47bob]

.....Actually hammering would tend to harden it even more than spring steel already is; making it more brittle wouldn't it? Bending in a press would be better.....ya think?

[47bob]

........Think i'll shut up and go work on my car. lol Bob

[Sticks]

Would this also work for rearching or flatting the arch in a sring?
Will this weakin the spring?

Thanks for the great info.

[Gator]

Yes- good, good info. Thank you!