Chevy 235 oil on the top end??

[OldCarPilot]

I don't know much about these engines. There seems to be very little oil where the rockers are. I am wondering if there is some kind of tube that delivers oil to the top? We found this tube thing that looks like it was crimped off for some reason. At the bottom (not in the pic)there looks to be some RTV like someone wanted this thing to stay where it is.
Again I know very little, but if anyone knows if its cool that there isn't much oil up there than I'm fine with that.

[OldCarPilot]

2

[Nads]

It looks like you've got a crushed feed tube. That's where the oil comes from but it also feeds through the rocker shaft itself. It's been my experience that worn shafts and rockers will impede oil flow considerably. I suggest you take the whole assembly off, very carefully. Keep all the rockers, springs and the two piece shaft positioned on a piece of cardboard EXACTLY as you take it off. The rockers are different.
Crank the engine over and see if there's oil coming up through the passage in the head. There's also a plug in the side of the head that you can take out and check for oil flow.
If your rockers and shaft are scored toss them in the trash. Good news is that rockers and shafts are still available from NAPA.
I took an auxiliary oil line tapped from where the optional oil filter and oil pressure gauge fitting on the side of the block. I tapped it directly to the plug on the side of the head. This and a new rocker shaft cured my oiling problems. I ended up getting two head jobs because I didn't jump on inadequate top end oiling.
Please fix this situation ASAP because you WILL wreck your top end.
PM me if I can be of more help.

[DIRTYT]

i have an xtra set of rockers and the line and the whole deal u need. u can have it if u pay shipping.

[OldCarPilot]

Dirty, the engine belongs to Munson, from AZ, I'm just here for the week visiting Deyomatic. They just may take you up on that offer.

Nads, where does that tube (the crushed one) deliver oil into the shaft? Is it that spot just below the bend on the top that looks like it might be afixed to the shaft? Can you think of any reason that someone would crush this tube, or how it could have been crushed? There is oil oozing out of the bottom of that tube, the part that has RTV on it. If we open the top of this tube up again, could all of the problems be solved?

[Revhead]

When we took apart my brother's 235 core we found that the rocker shaft was completely clogged. It's kinda like artery clogging. That tube up top should be slightly crimped so that it sprays oil, not just drips it out, but yours looks pretty beat up. I'd take the rocker shaft off and clean it up real good and get a new tube for it.

[Nads]

OldCarPilot, I bet you the oil tube on Munson's engine was crimped deliberately in a vain attempt to get more oil to the rockers. The later 235s don't even have a return like that, the oil just drips out through the shaft.
There isn't a whole lot of oil pressure to the top end, it's just kind of a flow. The oil creeps through the rocker shaft. If the oil hits an area which is worn out, it will stop right there. If there appears to be plenty of oiling by the feed tube then that's what your problem.
Believe me I've suffered terribly because of these problems. I coulda put a hopped up 350 in my '54 Chevy for the amount of money I've spent.

Take that shit apart and report back.

The auxiliary line I was telling you about really works. It's super simple to do with off the shelf tubing and fittings from any auto parts store.

Remember that you will be feeding unfiltered oil onto your rockers so you won't get 100% filtration from your systyem.
But you've gotta remember a lot of the old 235s didn't have oil filters at all. My wife's '60 wagon doesn't have one although one can be easily retrofitted.

[OldCarPilot]

Nads,

Well I wish I could take it apart, but I'm leaving here in a day. Its up to Deyomatic and Munson to do the dirty work from here on out.
If you take the shaft off can the inside of it be cleaned out to get rid of the blockage in there?
Also I am assuming that the oil runs through the tube and up through the rockers and out the little hole on the top of the rocker. (?)
The oil line you used was on the left side of the head near the top? Or is it on the right side down on the block? And how did you route oil from this to the top end?

[Deyomatic]

UPDATE...
We removed the shaft(s) today and there was absolutely NO blockage whatsoever. We took the opportunity to spray everything down with brake cleaner just for good measure, and assmebled it the way it was taken apart.
The problem is that there is no oil coming up to the hole that the oil feed tube slides into. When we got it all back together and torqued down, we started it up with the valve cover off and there was still nothing happening. We took that little plug off of the passenger side of the head and some oil dripped out, we hosed that out with a small amount of brake cleaner also and replaced the plug. Still nothing.
We took the oil feed tube out and shifted it so that the rockers stayed in the proper place, but the oil hole was open, to see if any oil even made it out that far. NOTHING. Not one drop of oil even makes it up that far.
We revved it up with the valve cover off, still nothing. I removed that side plug all together to see if any came out there, maybe there was a build up at the head bolt or something. A little oil dribbled out, but I think it was risidual.

Any ideas what that means.

The engine has the oil filter, can we just tap into that line and run an auxiliary line to the plug on the side? Should we remove the oil filter alltogether and use that line with full pressure on its own, because the filter only filters 15% of the oil anyway?

Thanks to all.

[Rocket88]

How much oil pressure does the car have?
It almost seems like an oil passage is plugged up.
Or maybe the oil pump is weak and it just can't push any oil upstairs.
I figured you'd find a ton of crap in the rocker shafts, that's what was wrong with my bro's 235.

[Kustm52]

The problem is you don't have the correct head bolt in the center of the left side. The correct bolt is drilled through the center vertically, and horizontantally in two places. This is the passage the oil takes to get to the rockers. Apparently this was a little known fact even back then, because in the 30 or so 235's I have owned I have seen a multitude of ways to get oil to the rockers. One such way is to cut a vertical slot in the bolt (like with a cut-off wheel) the length of it, giving the oil a way to the top. On my 235 I used a NOS bolt with the holes, and drilled the holes out one size bigger. Nads suggestion is the most common one, and will work well. If I had one of the correct bolts handy I'd send you one.....

Brian

[Deyomatic]

Brian, that makes alot of sense now that you mention it. Sounds like the bypass will be easier than locating that special bolt.

Now, we've said that the feed tube in the top pics seems to have been cut and crushed. Where is it supposed to shoot the oil if the rest of the tube were in place? When we do the bypass, should we bother trying to unplug the tube to splash onto the top of the head, or should we just concern ourselves with the rocker shaft.

No idea what the real oil pressure is, the stock gauge seems to be working, and shows about mid to 3/4 of the way toward the high end.

[Rocket88]

Dohhh!!!!
I forgot all about that head bolt, that's got to be it!

[Kustm52]

Leave the tube crushed....that was to allow any excess pressure to bleed off. By it being closed it will force all of the oil through the rocker shaft. It was originally "u" shaped and simply dumped the excess oil back onto the head surface. I think the engineer that desigined this was being overly optimistic...! Of course, one must remember that this engine was simply a modernization of the old dip and splash oiling of the 216 which had been around since '37...

Brian

[Munson]

Hey guys, my motor so I had a quick question.

When cleaning the "feed tube" hole and with the plug out, the cleaner was flowing right through!

So the absence of a drilled head bolt, Isn't letting oil get to the rocker feed tube/above the head?


Thanks for all the great help so far...
J

[Deyomatic]

Jay, they are saying that that one head bolt that is right there is plugging up the only "artery" for oil to get into the head.
Rather than take it out, it sounds like we'd be better off feeding oil externally, into the hole that is plugged.

[Munson]

So if the blockage is not being caused by the suspect head bolt, we may be tackling the oil filter assembly to supply the rocker assembly...

Anyone know how much oil pressure/ flow will be coming out of the oil filter supply line?
Consiquently should we then branch the oil filter to supply the rockers or remove the oil filter all together and only use that supply for the rockers?

Any other supplemental oil supply ideas?

Thanks for the help and I will drive this thing oneday!
j

[shoebox72]

Yea, T- off the Oil supply to the filter. bottom of the block,towards the firewall. one of my 235's is done like that.

Billy

[Deyomatic]

Well, another update... we took that head bolt out as the Stovebolt forum suggested and, it seems the moron that put this together last put the "special" bolt in the wrong location. So, we replaced that one and took them all out one at a time until we found the correct one, then pulled the old switch-a-roo. It seems to be oiling just fine now, all of the rockers seem to have oil dripping out the top.

What an asshole! Who puts an engine together, finds one head bolt that is OBVIOUSLY different than the rest for a reason, and doesn't bother to find out why?

[Kustm52]

Glad to hear it worked out....lucky the bolt was still there. You may want to drill the holes in the bolt out one size bigger just for insurance...there's not an abundance of oil getting to the top end of these engines.

Brian

[Munson]

Deyo and I were as happy as the Beverly Hillbillys when the oil started flowing!!!

Thank you to all above for all the help!

Pira Vida
J

[Nads]

That's damn good news boys.
Now she'll run for 200,000 miles no problem. Sure she'll leak and have 60lbs compression in the cylinders by then, but she'll still run. These Stovebolts are the thoughest SOB engines out there. My totally worn out 235 took me to Springfield Ohio and back for The Leadsled Spectacular in '93. Sure she used a bunch of oil but she never let me down. I drove the same car with a rebuilt '57 235 and it took me to Vegas and back, I used exactly 1 quart of oil in 5000 miles.

[Deyomatic]

This bolt didn't have any holes in it to drill out, one side of it was flat, so if you looked at the threaded end straight on, it was shaped like a capitol "D." We thought about grinding a bit more of it off, but I suppose we'll run it like this for awhile and see how the oiling is holding up.

[Ryan]

This is a great post...

I once had the same problem on a '51 b-coupe I had a few years ago. I couldn't figure out the top end oiling till I took the head bolts out and noticed the same weird d-shaped bolt deyomatic speaks of... Of course, I was a dumb ass and replaced all of the bolts with the "oiling" bolts... Ran great for like 50,000 miles though...

[OldCarPilot]

Awesome! Good to hear that you can limp that thing along until the 327 comes along. Hell now you are learning so much about this 6 you may want to keep it in there! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

[OldCarPilot]

oh yeah and... CHANGE THE OIL!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Munson]

What do you mean Mike,
"metal flake oil" is the new thing.
Just wait till it hits Texas you'll see.

We wiped out the rocker gally and we'll probably change it about 2-3x's

Thanks for your help last week, come back soon!
J

[yorgatron]

did you guys et those adjuster screws i sent yet? hope it helps-george

[Deyomatic]

Yorg, they just showed up today. They are a bit different, screw heads instead of bolts, but they look like they'll work just fine, thanks. I'll have Munson send you the shipping charges.

[timothale]

back in the 50's my stove bolt wore out a set of shafts and rockers also the tips of the rockers that contacted the valves used to wear a pocket so you couldn't get a good reading with a feeler gage ... one shop had a fixture to pivot the rocker and regrind the tip.. the feed hole up thru the block used to plug up I used to take a brass rod and clean it out . like cleaning out a rifle barrel ...also would take a tire valve stem and grind the tire side to a point and blow air back down the oil hole... I put on a set of 292 gimmy rockers, had to shorten the stands so the pushrods would reach. they gave a high lift... with the the gmc carb and a homemade split exhaust and dual straight pipes and the old stove bolt would out drag the ford flatheads...

[Mercman39]

Question. Did the 216's oil the top the same way, through one of the head bolts?

[Truckedup]

The "special" drilled head bolt was recomended by Chevy when installing a 55-58 head on a 59 and later block.it actually meters the oil flow down from full pressure.Using a regular bolt bolt in this case increases oil flow.The oil flow comes out a drilled passage in the block deck,flows to the head bolt,there's a triangular cut out in the head gasket to allow this.It does not pass by the head bolt thrads.The oil passes by the reduced shank of the head bolt,makes a right angle turn through another passage up through the head and to the rocker shaft.There is on some heads,a 1/8 inch pipe plug on the right middle side of the head.removing this plug,you may see a drilled orfice,about .062 inch,that restricts oil to the rockers.
It's a mix and match game with these old Chevy 6's.But I never seen one that wouldn't get oil up the rockers unless there is a blockage somewhere in the rocker oil passages.
I suggest to find the blockage and fix the problem at the source.