PROGRESS PICS OF MY "MAD MOTORSICKLE PROJECT"! + TECH QUESTION...

['Flyin' Dutchman']

Hey ya'll!
Here's a few pics of what my mate Robin and I have been buildin' in the last few weeks... I finally got my hands on someones digi cam today!

http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-1-3.jpg

Morgo 750cc big bore kit with Morgo Hepolite pistons.
http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-1-4.jpg

NOS Bates sparkle seat. Check the work on the mounting plate!
http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-1-5.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-2-1.jpg

We're gonna spray the tank in the next couple weeks... Black with gold flaked scallops and white outlines.
http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-2-2.jpg

For the roadkill... We took this from a fence...
http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-2-3.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-2-4.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-2-5.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-3-1.jpg

http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-3-2.jpg

Modified HD Sportster Narrow Glide forks.
http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-3-3.jpg

It'll have a primary open belt.
http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-3-4.jpg

NOS Bates ribbed rear fender.
http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-3-5.jpg

Norton H16 oiltank.
http://photo.starblvd.net/tilly/5-4-1.jpg

I also have a question about the "being in line" of the front and rear wheel on a motorcycle... We had to lace the rear wheel over to the right about a 1/2 of an inch, to get clearance for the chain/rear tire...
Has anyone of you ever done this?
Some experienced motorcycle people have told me that it's pretty much usual.. Someone told me that some new BMW bikes have a difference of little over an inch between the front and the rear wheel!
I've been riding rice rockets for a long time too, and I could never imagine not having my wheels in line.. I can imagine if the rear wheel is more to the right, that the bike will easier go into left hand corners, but will want to come back up when taking right hand corners... I think it won't really affect the handling of this little chopper because it's more for goin' straight, but I'd like to get some of your opinions on this...

Thanks,

Maurice...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

DAMN...that bike is lookin good....cant wait to see it finished..keep us up to date

[Morrisman]

Nice bike Dutchman, looks the business.
About the wheel offset, I think a lot of bikes are out by a half inch or more. Friend of mine built an alignment jig once, and near everybike he had on it was out by at least a 1/4", usually more.
Paul

[Curly]

When I went through the Harley Davidson School that was actually setup by Harley for the service departments at their dealerships it was expressed that they are designed from the start NOT to be in line. Can you imagine if BOTH tires hit the same groove in the road at the same time? You are safe!

[CTFuzz]

Curly hit it on the head, that 1/2" means nothing....That bike is badddd! Will you send me one of those seats?? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

CT.

[cole]

nice scooter! I love english bikes.

but have to say something about spike on front? what does it do? Your bike says bad ass don't add something like that,it takes away from it. you have a good eye, do not fall for GAY add ons

[choprods]

Im running into the same situation with my Hardtail project....I will need to stagger the rear wheel prob a half inch to the right......wont that kinda make it sit straight up like training wheels? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gifhe he!- I love the bike there whats that motor?

[autocol]

i once welded up a bicycle frame with the rear wheel 18 inches (!) to the right of the front. it was surprisingly easy to ride, though it certainly did turn left with aplomb. it was the funniest thing i did that whole year.

seriously though, i think you'd need to be mick doohan to tell that the wheels weren't directly in line...

[a/fxcomet]

That is a neat looking bike. It looks "right."




Cole's right though, that spike looks a little gay. Almost as gay as these guys:
http://www.marusin.com/images/05-27-03/paulSr.gif

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif



Got any closer pics of that stand?

[bones35]

hey english, ive always used off set sprockets on my big twin projects, and kept the rear wheel lined up with the backbone. i know that after market stuff like offset sprokets isnt readily available for everything. but i definently have laced a wheel up offset to help line thangs up. thbc nice bike, Bones

[DeadFast 33]

Till- I agree with Cole! That bike is looking awsome but the fence post doesn't add any thing to an already clean design.

FLIP

['Flyin' Dutchman']

Hey! Thanks for the replies guys!
I think I have to go with you guys on removing the spike thing...
I've been thinking and it's indeed true that a bike should get it's coolness from it's normal "needed" parts, right stance and overall simplicity... We thought it would be cool to add "one little thing", you know, but maybe it's a little too much OC Choppers after all, which is, indeed, GAY....

It's the first bike we ever build from the ground up and I must say that it's very addictive! I'd like to go ahead and build another one right away next winter! I saw Scott Craig's redone Trumpster on some pics of the roadster show and it gives a lot of inspiration...

BTW I'm very happy to get reactions like this! Great!
I'll keep you guys posted... There's a lot more we have to do on the little scooter!

Oh yeah, Choprods... The motor is bit of a mix of everything! It has a TR7RV base, with a 4 spd tranny instead of a 5 spd, a 750cc Morgo cilinder with Morgo pistons and a 650 head... It'll get a Hunt magneto with, hopefully, a Goodson Magneto cover... That way I can get rid of the plastic magneto cover.

And Comet... Sorry man... No pics of the stand right now.. I could take some for ya. My buddy made it to maintain his HD on...

[haring]

Hey, Dutch ... don't be such a pussy. Just because a few guys say they don't like the spike doesn't mean you have to take it off. Leave it on. You guys obviously had the inspiration to put it on there in the first place. It's perfectly acceptable on a 60s style chopper. Wait until the bike is all put together to make the final decision. If you hadn't shown a close-up picture of it, Ibet most people would not have seen it -- and then when they did see it, they'd probably say, "cool".

And besides, you are never going to build anything that anyone else agrees with 100%. Someone will always say, "great, but I'd change that ____. " So do what you want, and we'll look forward to the progress.

That bike is COOL.

[Ryan]

Geesh... talk about can't win for losing...

I think I would go sans spike as well. That bike has a nice look...

[Bass]

Wow...I am re-building my bike right now, and we are going along very similar paths from the looks of things.

The only real differences between mine an your are that mine's gonna run a Mustang tank, white seat, painted rear fender, and closed primary. I think it goes with out saying that I like what your doing with the bike. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[junkboy]

Flyin' D.,

Don't be payin' too much mind to peoples' opinions about the "looks" of your bike. Fuck 'em. YOUR ideas and YOUR perceptions are all that matter in the end. It's your expression of personal freedom, not theirs. I wonder how many times Billy Lane asks for second opinions? Anyway, be yourself...not a sheep. You're makin' great progress.

[cole]

Im not telling you what to do , I just think form follows function.

Billy Lane is gimmic master.

Im a car guy, and when I did a bike to run with the "boy's" it would of and was expected to add car gimmics to my bike. Not a chance.

And my personal rule is "dont do anything just to be diffirent" you end up doing things that have no function just add -on shit, be diffirent with slick ways,parts, arrangments, but using a hand grenade shifter , switchblade pegs ,revolver risers, handgun pedals, and spot light thru tank, is GAY and easy to do. you choose.

[FoMoCo_MoFo]

Dutchman,
Put the spike on the top of your helmet where it belongs!

and now I am motivated to get my Tri-Chop finished!

[yorgatron]

that spike would make a nice pad for the end of the kickstand.it would then be functional,as it would be less likely to sink in soft ground or hot asphalt-george

['Flyin' Dutchman']

Sorry, this might be a stupid question... But, since I'm Dutch, I can't understand All the slang... Can anyone tell me what a "spot light thru tank" is...

And thanks again for all the replies... I'm very glad that you all like what we're doing here and that you're coaching a little on what to do....

[Fast Elvis]

Hey Maurice, you and your buddy Robin are creating a great looking bike! With that big bore kit, you should be haulin A!! Oh buy the way, DEADENDCRUISERS is one of my favourite set's besides HAMB. I even sent in some shots of my 55 chev (has no hood) for your readers rides page. Keep up the good work and say hello to Bas.

Cheers, Mark

[SamIyam]

I have a couple of questions for you Dutchman...

One, What brand tire is that on the back and are they still available?

Two, and because I'm starting in on my frame real soon, if the wheel is offset a half of an inch, does it end up just getting spaced over to miss the chain? I realize you had it laced so it was off set, but I'm wondering about the frame... is it centered? Or is the frame off center from the back bone also? (I doubt this, but I'm just asking) Also, is there a standard width between the rear tabs that hold the rear wheel on a Triumph?

I'm using a pre unit frame for my project (for visual reasons) but I will be running a unitized motor... So what I will end up doing is replacing the lower rails from the stock bolt on forged ends (up front) to the rear... I'm doing this because I want the lower rails to be one piece and not have a bolt on hard tail... and I want to get rid of the stock bungs.

I'm really excited about your project and can't wait to see more pics.

Oh, one more thing (I know, that'll make four questions)... where did you buy your belt drive? Do you have any links to their site, or more pics of the swap?

Keep up the good work, and go with your gut feeling on this stuff... (and loose the spike)

JUST KIDDING!!! Hahaha... do what you want with it... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Sam!

[rikaguilera]

I agree with the "less is more" aproach to building anything. Cole, I saw your bike in Daytona. Biktoberfest 2002. Very cool, very small and light. I also liked the idea of using a "beehive" oil tank, from a car.
I don't think I would use the spike, but then again, it is not my bike. You have a great project going, and I can't wait to see it finished.
At least it is not "cookie cutter".

[manyolcars]

It seems like the Europeans have a better grasp of our stuff than SOME Americans. Pointy things like the spike can impale you if you ever go down. I would be more concerned about the points of the Z bars hitting me in the chest if it was in an accident.

[SamIyam]

I believe the oil tank was something Cole built from scratch... the fins are a little wider spaced than a bee hive.

Anyway, about the impalement issue... I think it is part of the chopper scene, as well as the rockabilly set (so it seems) to have things that look, or may be, dangerous on your bike. Take a look at the OCC Choppers and their forks... they usually have two big-ass spikes that would impale the rider if he went over the bars... or at least it would rip a big hole in you when you went buy. This sort of thing is kind of the "screw you, I'm tough, I'll put it on there to make you cringe" look... which is fine for some... but others avoid it like the plague.

Cole's bike does not fit into any one category... and that's why it is so bitchen, but few people can put their finger on exactly what it is that makes it so "right".

It has a definate 60's drag bike look to it with it's rear slick, minimalist construction and stubby stance. As he said, he steered clear of predictability with his avoidance of car shit on it (the oil tank comes close to some, but far for others) Yet his bike has enough home brewed parts and free flowing curves to rival creations found in an art gallery. i.e. the holes normally found in 60's drag bike parts were filled as if the thing was squeezed from one of those things they ice cakes with.

The Dutchman's bike is a whole nuther thing... it is a blend of 70's chopper with low slung drag bike thrown in. It's simplicity is its biggest asset... using the styling cues found on 70's choppers in a tasteful manner...

Anywho, enough talkin'... lets see more pics!

Sam!

[BARNETT]

Keep the spike, loose the spike...whatever...the bike is gonna be cool regardless! Keep posting progress pics, please. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[truth]

That bikes looking real sweet, man...!

Let me know if you need help finding anymore parts out this way. Did you ever get your hands on that podtronics unit you were looking for?

['Flyin' Dutchman']

Hey Truth, I found that PODtronics thing... I sent you an e-mail a little while ago.. Maybe it didn't come thru, I dunno...

SamIyam... I'll send you a PM or e-mail this week... I've been busy all night again! Gotta go get some sleep now, it's getting late...

[harvester of bondo]

dear mr dutch man..
i really like your chopper.
you speak good english for a netherlander. me and coley got a letter from some guys up there and I wrote them back and cole was pissed. had I known you guys had such knowledge of both the english language and her motorcycles I would have been less offensive. my vote is to keep the spike but don't be so hard set on keeping it in front to joust your enemies. move it around every once in awhile, it would be like some neat attraction, like the bike of a different fence spike. also, those bolt on hardtails are shitbox from the start, usually. most are welded crooked. you might be the netherland exception. my bike is welded crooked because i couldnt wait to build a proper jig and i was poor. and i wanted to get in the wind with the father jobey jj and cole. 3 years later, no wind.Most dirt floor hillbilly chops were so crooked as fuck, speed wobbles give it soul.dont sweat crooked wheel. jason jesse rode a bike so crooked it looked like a side car, you are safe. im only breaking radio silence because i like your back tire. ill send you some pics of my bike, the TINY DANCER, if you send me one of those fence pokers. i'd put up one of those smiley things but they don't have any that capture my real feelings right now.

[yorgatron]

welcome back harvester.get your BSA running yet?

[junkboy]

If form following function is the recipe, then I guess we should get you to raise the bike back up to factory height. We should probably get rid of the rake in the frame while you're at it and put some big fat blinkers on the thing.

Gimme a break. Form following function is a disease to ANY custom be it auto or bike. Does a guy chop his street cruiser so it can fit under bridges better?? Function was never considered. It just looks cool. What about peanut tanks and bobbed rear fenders. Bikers probably implemented those modifications because it's fun to stop every 50 miles for fuel and talk about the grime collection on their backs compliments of the back tire. Not. It just looks cool. Function was never considered.

So just do what you think is cool, try not to get too threatened by other's success(because THAT is gay), and you'll be fine.

[Christian]

I think this is an interesting discussion. Cole has a point with form following function, and I too prefer the look of bike with nothing but the necessities on it. However, the other approach to building bikes (especially here on the HAMB) is tradition, building a bike the way they did it in the chopper's heyday. I got some old Choppers magazines and not all builders back then seemed to adhere to the "form follows function" filosophy, quite a few nick-nacks to be found here and there. I guess what I don't like is the bikes that fall in between those categories, either it's stripped down or it's a over-the-top-psychadelic chopper.

[Nads]

Talk about kicking a guy when he's down. I'll join in by saying that the spike sucks too, the rest of it rules.
I have to disagree with cole about Billy Lane being a gimic master, well sure he does have gimics, but then again I enjoy frivolity in my artifacts.
When I look over his bikes they're full of uneccessary doo-hickery, but that's what his bikes are about, and I don't think he claims otherwise. We can't compare what our flatland brother is doing with what comes out of the Choppers Inc shop.
My very favorite builders on the planet right now are Zero Engineering and Chica cycles, both of those shops put out bikes with useless crap on them too.
Very few things are completetly unfrivolous, an Eames chair maybe, but to me sometimes when in the character of the item a doo dad thrown in can be cool.
Take a look at Young's Pan Chopper, who in the day would've thought to use a dropped axle for a front frame leg and Buick/Ford rear wheel brake combo?
Should we dismiss Hank's bike as silly? I think not.

For me though, the bikes that really do it for me are the ones that are lean and mean with a maximum air of mystery. No names, no markings, no nothing.

PS, is it true that ChopperDave's judging The Horse Chopper show at Bike Week?

[Christian]

[ QUOTE ]

My very favorite builders on the planet right now are Zero Engineering and Chica cycles, both of those shops put out bikes with useless crap on them too.

[/ QUOTE ]

what Zero bike has useless crap on it? I actually think it's amazing the amount of crap that's on these bikes yet never sticks out like a sore thumb.(I think they all need 4 blinkers and all sorts of other stuff to make 'em road legaletc.)

[saltflataddict]

"what Zero bike has useless crap on it? I actually think it's amazing the amount of crap that's on these bikes yet never sticks out like a sore thumb"

None, some of the best bikes built with no gimmicks.

Dutchman - your bike rocks. I dream of someday having money to build one..if anyone knows of a bike for no more than $50. let men know ha,ha http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Mild Mitch]

REALLY BITCHIN! Cool bike, artfully done.

I don't think you need to be concerned about the rear wheel offset.
Check out www.dbbp.com (http://www.dbbp.com) for more info. He could probably help you with more technical stuff. He is also in your part of the world!

[SamIyam]

junkboy, I think you have your finger on part of the equation for building something...

Custom cars and choppers have one thing in common... they are built to please the eye... although choppers bend that to new heights and prey on the "Barney Bad-Ass" in us all...

But if you look at a true hot rod... or bike that is built in the spirit of hot rodding (i.e. bobber or drag bike) their form DOES follow function... for instance, the poor example of a peanut tank that you gave is actually a hold over from flat track and drag motorcycles... only enough fuel to make it through the race... yet the look caught on and people began doing it on street bikes... same for the rear bobbed fender... had to have a fender on your bike... so damnit, I'm gonna make it as small as possible to keep Johnny law off my back and/or to meet the requirements of the flat track racing association...

The Dutchman's bike is a blend of the two... he has elements that are minimalist and purely there for function, which end up lending to the form of the bike and then there are items like the Z-bars and that spike that say "hey, here's a little something to tingle your eye"... for people who believe in the form follow's function mantra, that stuff is superfluous (look it up).

Sam!

[harvester of bondo]

actually, form following function isn't coles idea, it was frank llyod wright's. we at salinas boys pay close attention to those who came before us and made big buildings and got in magazines. the usual state of affairs at our shop falls into walter gropius's pre nazi acadamia, bauhaus. design and art should play equal parts in the conception of the subjective negro. theres a formula we follow not to stay within guidlines as much as to pay homage to those who died in concentration camps and others who hide out in south africa. it takes a long time to understand, and buy listening to those who came before and paid endless dues we begin to see clearer our own paths. billy lane follows the WWF school of wrestling, and for so many thats the homage, i would wrather die in a concentration camp than have the japanese invade my sacred homage any more than they already have, Pearl was the first attempt, then Levi's, #4 the fittest shall survive yet the unfit may live #5 we must repeat. The school of Salinas Boys is Calling You to Arms.

[SamIyam]

[ QUOTE ]
actually, form following function isn't coles idea, it was frank llyod wright's. we at salinas boys pay close attention to those who came before us and made big buildings and got in magazines. the usual state of affairs at our shop falls into walter gropius's pre nazi acadamia, bauhaus. design and art should play equal parts in the conception of the subjective negro. theres a formula we follow not to stay within guidlines as much as to pay homage to those who died in concentration camps and others who hide out in south africa. it takes a long time to understand, and buy listening to those who came before and paid endless dues we begin to see clearer our own paths. billy lane follows the WWF school of wrestling, and for so many thats the homage, i would wrather die in a concentration camp than have the japanese invade my sacred homage any more than they already have, Pearl was the first attempt, then Levi's, #4 the fittest shall survive yet the unfit may live #5 we must repeat. The school of Salinas Boys is Calling You to Arms.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and then the schoolgirls yelled "heeeey-yea, who's yer- daddy, who's-yer daddy!!"

Sam!

[slazzen]

[ QUOTE ]
walter gropius's pre nazi acadamia, bauhaus. design and art should play equal parts in the conception of the subjective negro

[/ QUOTE ] I thought all that was played out in the 80`s with the modrian hair products packageing I say we revive the Bay Area Funk Art movement of the early 70`s Robert Arnison style then you could find some funkshun for that Spike & Ike style fence topper I like the idea of useing it as OCC satire and Arnison was the master of satire

[junkboy]

Sam. Of course the peanut tanks had purpose for the track. I'm not that fogged. My point was that they don't on the street. Of course chopping the top of a car had a purpose on the salt flats (resistance)...just not on the street. I'll just say that lots of things people do now are more show than go. A blend is almost impossible to avoid. The spike? Does it hurt the show? Does it hurt the go? I could take it or leave it. I just think it should be the builder's decision.

Life is the lively co-existence of opposite values. Good and bad. Right and wrong. Dark and light. Spike and no spike. It's nice to see the energy is still runnin' wild.

[SamIyam]

Glad to hear you're not that fogged, junkboy. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

In fact, I like the whimsical touch to a four or two wheeled creation... it's just that it sometimes gets out of hand... before it was expected, (15-20 years ago) theme's were seldome found in cars and bikes... but now it's almost expected... anymore, seeing a theme such as "guns and ammo" or "knives and brass knuckles" carried throughout a motorcycle is passe... passe to the point where it is now considered lame by a few people... me included.

Now I'm not apposed to filling a hole in a Trimph frame with a shot gun shell... but every fucking unused hole, pistols for pedals, a cylinder for a jocky shift knob and 30-30 rifles for a sissy bar is a bit much.

The only question I have now is... is the dutchman going to remove the spike or leave it?

Sam!

[burndup]

Germ minus (chronic+bourbon) equals Harvester.

[Christian]

[ QUOTE ]
Germ minus (chronic+bourbon) equals Harvester.

[/ QUOTE ]

he wishes, at least now I get what Germ aspires to with his posts

[Christian]

[ QUOTE ]

The only question I have now is... is the dutchman going to remove the spike or leave it?


[/ QUOTE ]
He's probably gonna remove half so we'd ALL stop whining.

[Mild Mitch]

My Goodness Sam, you said something worthwhile and (lookitup) poignant. Really, good point!

[Nads]

harvester of bondo, may I call you HOB for short? Or is that too close to House Of Blues?
Are you for real about your comment about the Japanese?
In your perfect world perhaps Chica and Zero ought not to exist.
C'mon bro' it's a small world. Why in the world should the Japanese making the prices of Levis (Mr.Strauss was a Jew) sky high have anything to do with letting them not build bad ass choppers?
Didn't HD sell the Japanese the tooling and the licenses to build Rukios?
Weren't early Toyotas clones of Austin Sevens?
Doesn't a Datsun 2000 roadster head interchange with one off of an MG?
I'm not sure I understand where you're coming from!
I do applaud you for having knowledge of Gropius and Wright though.
I guess it goes to prove that not all gearheads are ignorant, misguided maybe, but not ignorant.

Oh yeah in my book beautifully bent copper oil lines are frivolous when plain old rubber ones will do.

[quickrod]

don't touch it,if you like it,fuck em,leave it!and don't worry to much about the stagger,should be fine.....