Zeke
01-21-2004, 01:04 PM
Great stuff from Tinbender from the Old Tech O'Matic
Fillin holes (sorry not porn related) -Tinbender posted 12-14-2002
The subject of todays "how to" is filling unwanted holes. The method I'll be using is certainly not the only way. It's not necessarily even the best way. However it's a good method, utilizing tools that are easy to find and skills that are easy to learn.
I used a Lincoln 125, 110 volt MIG with .024 wire and argon/co2 gas. I'll be doing this article in two installments, we'll see how that works out. Keep in mind, I'm new at this!
The subject is my 46 Stude p/u. At sometime, someone added an antenna in the cowl. The first picture shows the hole,(about 3/4") along with the damage and distortion, that have accumulated over the years.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-1.jpg
The first step is to smooth out the area with hammer and dolly. Starting with a straight area is essential to finishing with a straight area. If you do not possess the skills to do this step, then you should not attempt this project,... yet. And yes, I do plan on going into hammer and dolly work in the future, but today, I felt like filling this hole, and the camera was handy, so this is what you get!
After smoothing the area, I took a few passes with the metal file, then ground the area with 40 grit paper, on a 8" air sander. I rarely use anything courser than 40. The purpose is to remove the paint, not metal. Keep in mind, when grinding, if you see sparks, your removing metal.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-2.jpg
I cleaned the back side with a small body grinder, and 50 grit 3" rolock disk. I took the paint off about 1" around the hole. I also cleaned the edge of the hole with a rat tail file. No matter what type of welding you do, it has to be CLEAN!
Next step was to bend a piece of 18 ga. cold rolled to match the contour of the cowl. I like to match the thickness of the patch with the area to be filled. The truck is 18 to 20 ga. in the places I could get a gauge on. If in doubt, go thicker with the patch, rather than thinner. You will loose some material during the finishing stages. I held the patch under the hole and traced the opening on the new metal.
The patch can be cut by what ever means you have available. Leave room to fine tune to size. I rough cut it with a throatless shear, then held the patch with small vice grips & used the 50 grit rolock to grind it to the final size. I also de-bured the edges.
Fit, like cleanliness is essential. I like a nice even gap about the thickness of the metal I'm working with, all around. This helps prevent the patch binding up when it expands from the heat during welding. The binding adds to warpage, and can push the patch out of alignment. The gap also aids in penetration & fusion. I use a magnet to hold the patch in postion, on the backside, when possible, but it can be used it on the front if need be.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-3.jpg
I'm particular about fit up. Take your time. and tack it in place only when your happy with the gap, and the surface of the patch is even with surrounding area.
I tacked this piece (3/4" hole) in 3 places. Try to keep your tacks more even in size, than I did. This helps to keep things in alignment.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-4.jpg
After tacking, I removed the magnet, and ground the tacks smooth with the 50 grit rolock. This made it easier to hammer and dolly the area a little to fine tune the fit, making sure the patch was level with the cowl. Once happy with the fit up, I ground a piece of brass to fit the contour of the underside of the cowl, and held it in place with a telescoping hood prop. The brass provides a heat sink, as well as a backer for the weld. The weld won't stick to the brass. I don't know why. Can someone please explain that to me?
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-5.jpg
I welded the patch in 2 passes, 2 welds each pass. I welded about 1/4 of the way around the hole, then another 1/4 directly across. I stopped, and let it cool completely. Then did the other 2 welds. Again the more even the better. As you can see from the picture, my first weld was a little shorter than the rest. As the area cooled, and shrank this caused some minor warpage. Not a big deal. I'll show you how I dealt with that in the next installment. Yes, you can hammer weld a mig bead!
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-1.jpg
------------------
"I have never completely understood anything"
Rocky posted 12-14-2002
I've had problems using magnets with wire-feed welders. It's as if the shielding gas has been turned off. Now,I use a piece of duct tape underneath the patch until I'm finished tacking, then remove it before it goes up in flames and stinks the shop up.
roadstar posted 12-14-2002 04:38 AM
Good post there TINman. I use the magnet sometimes too. But like Rocky says It can make the weld act funny sometimes. I think it has something to do withe the polarity. On small patches like that I too just use a piece of tape.
And I agree you can hammer weld a mig weld you just have to take alittle more time. The weld is brittle and will sometimes crack. I even grind the tacks and hammer them some to bring it back up some before I finish the weld.
I have to admit this is the stuff that makes the HAMB a good place to be for GOOD info.
Tinbender posted 12-14-2002
The magnet is removed after tacking in place. Fit up is everything!
------------------
"I have never completely understood anything"
Tinbender posted 12-16-2002
Part 2
I'll pick up where I left off last time. If you missed the last post, I guess you need to look up the first one. Seems posts move right along! Sorry for the crappy pictures, I really need a close up lens.
My welding technique also requires that the wire is set high enough to keep from blowing away the base metal. This makes for a fairly large and high bead. Too high for hammer welding. I've found the best way to remove the excess weldment(yeah, that's really what it's called) is with a 3"X1/4" stone on a die grinder. It's just a thick cut-off wheel. You can use other grinding methods, or even cut-off wheels. The important thing, is to remove only the excess bead, and not ANY base metal. I also ground the back side with the rolock. (You should have a small bead of melt thru on the back side.) I mostly just smoothed it, leaving it slightly above the surrounding metal. I took pictures of the back side, but they didn't have enough detail to use.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-1.jpg
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-2.jpg
After grinding the bead to near surface level, I like to smooth it down further with a 50 grit rolock. Again try not to remove base metal. Next I make a few passes with the body file.
You can't tell much from the picture, but the dark spots, are the low areas where the file doesn't reach. There are two other shallow lows, one above the hole, and one to the right lower. These were caused by the shrinking of the metal as it cooled. Not the expansion from the heat. The crown in the panel, was pulled flat. They are pretty minor, maybe 1/8" deep. Would be nothing wrong with cleaning it up a little better, and filling. Body filler really is way better than it ever has been. You can go to 1/4" deep, and still have excellent holdout.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-3.jpg
But there isn't the need for it most of the time. The crown can be restored, and the filler reduced, or eliminated. You need to stretch the metal back to the point where there is enough to make the crown. A crown is a curved surface, or line. It's longer than a straight surface or line. So we need more surface area. Is anyone still with me?
We can stretch metal by hammering it with a dolly behind the hammered area. As the metal gets pounded between the hammer and dolly it thins. As it thins, it has to spread out. It can't spread because its surrounded by other metal, so it curves, to take up the extra surface area, Wala, you have a crown. An English wheel does the same thing, just in a more controlled fashion.
The problem with a mig weld, is that it cools rapidly. It becomes hardened. If you hammer on it, it will usually crack, or at least distort at the softer metal around it.
So we go back to heat. I used a A/O torch with a 000 tip. I heated the weld circle up slowly, and evenly. I kept the flame on the weld, and moved in a circular motion.
I brought it as close to melting as I could, then used hammer on dolly to stretch the welded area. It's a good idea to have some handy to take the torch, or build a holder. The faster you get on it with hammer and dolly, the better. You can see by the heat ring, that a lot more heat was introduced to the area, than in the actual welding.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-4.jpg
After cooling, (did I mention that I almost always let metal cool naturally?) A few passes with the body file, a little smoothing with hammer and dolly (hammer on, but much more gently) A pass with the 50 grit rolock and its finished.........almost!
A check with a bright light under the weld area showed a pin hole in the joint. This was at the junction of two of the beads. This is why I never weld sheet metal with little tiny 1/8" tacks, that everyone seems to think will save them warpage. It's due to cold start. The mig can't preheat the base metal, like a torch. You tend to have poor fusion at the very beginning of a weld. Sometimes leads to a pinhole where two beads join. You should check your welds for pinholes several times during the process. Just hold a bright light behind the welded joint, you'll see the holes.
Here's the easy fix. Push a pick of some sort thru the pin hole. Most pinholes are very thin around the edges. Push the edges back till it fells like solid metal. Now you can weld the hole with enough heat to get fusion. If you try to weld it without reaming it out, even though it's smaller it will overheat & blow out the thin metal, making an even bigger hole. You can use a heat sink behind them, but shouldn't need to on small ones. Grind the small weld & you should be done.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-5.jpg
Again, nothing wrong with some filler. You'll most likely need more as your learning, less as you get better. I don't like fiberglass fillers, or all metal. Premium body filler. I'll tell you why some other day. As someone mentioned on the first post PRACTICE! Try flat panels, and crowned, but dive in and give it a try.
------------------
"I have never completely understood anything"
Fillin holes (sorry not porn related) -Tinbender posted 12-14-2002
The subject of todays "how to" is filling unwanted holes. The method I'll be using is certainly not the only way. It's not necessarily even the best way. However it's a good method, utilizing tools that are easy to find and skills that are easy to learn.
I used a Lincoln 125, 110 volt MIG with .024 wire and argon/co2 gas. I'll be doing this article in two installments, we'll see how that works out. Keep in mind, I'm new at this!
The subject is my 46 Stude p/u. At sometime, someone added an antenna in the cowl. The first picture shows the hole,(about 3/4") along with the damage and distortion, that have accumulated over the years.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-1.jpg
The first step is to smooth out the area with hammer and dolly. Starting with a straight area is essential to finishing with a straight area. If you do not possess the skills to do this step, then you should not attempt this project,... yet. And yes, I do plan on going into hammer and dolly work in the future, but today, I felt like filling this hole, and the camera was handy, so this is what you get!
After smoothing the area, I took a few passes with the metal file, then ground the area with 40 grit paper, on a 8" air sander. I rarely use anything courser than 40. The purpose is to remove the paint, not metal. Keep in mind, when grinding, if you see sparks, your removing metal.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-2.jpg
I cleaned the back side with a small body grinder, and 50 grit 3" rolock disk. I took the paint off about 1" around the hole. I also cleaned the edge of the hole with a rat tail file. No matter what type of welding you do, it has to be CLEAN!
Next step was to bend a piece of 18 ga. cold rolled to match the contour of the cowl. I like to match the thickness of the patch with the area to be filled. The truck is 18 to 20 ga. in the places I could get a gauge on. If in doubt, go thicker with the patch, rather than thinner. You will loose some material during the finishing stages. I held the patch under the hole and traced the opening on the new metal.
The patch can be cut by what ever means you have available. Leave room to fine tune to size. I rough cut it with a throatless shear, then held the patch with small vice grips & used the 50 grit rolock to grind it to the final size. I also de-bured the edges.
Fit, like cleanliness is essential. I like a nice even gap about the thickness of the metal I'm working with, all around. This helps prevent the patch binding up when it expands from the heat during welding. The binding adds to warpage, and can push the patch out of alignment. The gap also aids in penetration & fusion. I use a magnet to hold the patch in postion, on the backside, when possible, but it can be used it on the front if need be.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-3.jpg
I'm particular about fit up. Take your time. and tack it in place only when your happy with the gap, and the surface of the patch is even with surrounding area.
I tacked this piece (3/4" hole) in 3 places. Try to keep your tacks more even in size, than I did. This helps to keep things in alignment.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-4.jpg
After tacking, I removed the magnet, and ground the tacks smooth with the 50 grit rolock. This made it easier to hammer and dolly the area a little to fine tune the fit, making sure the patch was level with the cowl. Once happy with the fit up, I ground a piece of brass to fit the contour of the underside of the cowl, and held it in place with a telescoping hood prop. The brass provides a heat sink, as well as a backer for the weld. The weld won't stick to the brass. I don't know why. Can someone please explain that to me?
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-1-5.jpg
I welded the patch in 2 passes, 2 welds each pass. I welded about 1/4 of the way around the hole, then another 1/4 directly across. I stopped, and let it cool completely. Then did the other 2 welds. Again the more even the better. As you can see from the picture, my first weld was a little shorter than the rest. As the area cooled, and shrank this caused some minor warpage. Not a big deal. I'll show you how I dealt with that in the next installment. Yes, you can hammer weld a mig bead!
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-1.jpg
------------------
"I have never completely understood anything"
Rocky posted 12-14-2002
I've had problems using magnets with wire-feed welders. It's as if the shielding gas has been turned off. Now,I use a piece of duct tape underneath the patch until I'm finished tacking, then remove it before it goes up in flames and stinks the shop up.
roadstar posted 12-14-2002 04:38 AM
Good post there TINman. I use the magnet sometimes too. But like Rocky says It can make the weld act funny sometimes. I think it has something to do withe the polarity. On small patches like that I too just use a piece of tape.
And I agree you can hammer weld a mig weld you just have to take alittle more time. The weld is brittle and will sometimes crack. I even grind the tacks and hammer them some to bring it back up some before I finish the weld.
I have to admit this is the stuff that makes the HAMB a good place to be for GOOD info.
Tinbender posted 12-14-2002
The magnet is removed after tacking in place. Fit up is everything!
------------------
"I have never completely understood anything"
Tinbender posted 12-16-2002
Part 2
I'll pick up where I left off last time. If you missed the last post, I guess you need to look up the first one. Seems posts move right along! Sorry for the crappy pictures, I really need a close up lens.
My welding technique also requires that the wire is set high enough to keep from blowing away the base metal. This makes for a fairly large and high bead. Too high for hammer welding. I've found the best way to remove the excess weldment(yeah, that's really what it's called) is with a 3"X1/4" stone on a die grinder. It's just a thick cut-off wheel. You can use other grinding methods, or even cut-off wheels. The important thing, is to remove only the excess bead, and not ANY base metal. I also ground the back side with the rolock. (You should have a small bead of melt thru on the back side.) I mostly just smoothed it, leaving it slightly above the surrounding metal. I took pictures of the back side, but they didn't have enough detail to use.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-1.jpg
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-2.jpg
After grinding the bead to near surface level, I like to smooth it down further with a 50 grit rolock. Again try not to remove base metal. Next I make a few passes with the body file.
You can't tell much from the picture, but the dark spots, are the low areas where the file doesn't reach. There are two other shallow lows, one above the hole, and one to the right lower. These were caused by the shrinking of the metal as it cooled. Not the expansion from the heat. The crown in the panel, was pulled flat. They are pretty minor, maybe 1/8" deep. Would be nothing wrong with cleaning it up a little better, and filling. Body filler really is way better than it ever has been. You can go to 1/4" deep, and still have excellent holdout.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-3.jpg
But there isn't the need for it most of the time. The crown can be restored, and the filler reduced, or eliminated. You need to stretch the metal back to the point where there is enough to make the crown. A crown is a curved surface, or line. It's longer than a straight surface or line. So we need more surface area. Is anyone still with me?
We can stretch metal by hammering it with a dolly behind the hammered area. As the metal gets pounded between the hammer and dolly it thins. As it thins, it has to spread out. It can't spread because its surrounded by other metal, so it curves, to take up the extra surface area, Wala, you have a crown. An English wheel does the same thing, just in a more controlled fashion.
The problem with a mig weld, is that it cools rapidly. It becomes hardened. If you hammer on it, it will usually crack, or at least distort at the softer metal around it.
So we go back to heat. I used a A/O torch with a 000 tip. I heated the weld circle up slowly, and evenly. I kept the flame on the weld, and moved in a circular motion.
I brought it as close to melting as I could, then used hammer on dolly to stretch the welded area. It's a good idea to have some handy to take the torch, or build a holder. The faster you get on it with hammer and dolly, the better. You can see by the heat ring, that a lot more heat was introduced to the area, than in the actual welding.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-4.jpg
After cooling, (did I mention that I almost always let metal cool naturally?) A few passes with the body file, a little smoothing with hammer and dolly (hammer on, but much more gently) A pass with the 50 grit rolock and its finished.........almost!
A check with a bright light under the weld area showed a pin hole in the joint. This was at the junction of two of the beads. This is why I never weld sheet metal with little tiny 1/8" tacks, that everyone seems to think will save them warpage. It's due to cold start. The mig can't preheat the base metal, like a torch. You tend to have poor fusion at the very beginning of a weld. Sometimes leads to a pinhole where two beads join. You should check your welds for pinholes several times during the process. Just hold a bright light behind the welded joint, you'll see the holes.
Here's the easy fix. Push a pick of some sort thru the pin hole. Most pinholes are very thin around the edges. Push the edges back till it fells like solid metal. Now you can weld the hole with enough heat to get fusion. If you try to weld it without reaming it out, even though it's smaller it will overheat & blow out the thin metal, making an even bigger hole. You can use a heat sink behind them, but shouldn't need to on small ones. Grind the small weld & you should be done.
http://photo.starblvd.net/swaggerm/1-2-5.jpg
Again, nothing wrong with some filler. You'll most likely need more as your learning, less as you get better. I don't like fiberglass fillers, or all metal. Premium body filler. I'll tell you why some other day. As someone mentioned on the first post PRACTICE! Try flat panels, and crowned, but dive in and give it a try.
------------------
"I have never completely understood anything"