View Full Version : If Powder Coating Is Sooo Good........


Drive Em
08-20-2013, 09:58 AM
...... why aren't auto manufacturers powder coating the exterior of new cars? This is not a thread to bash powder coating, but I really want to know why it isn't being used as an exterior vehicle finish, or is it? One would think that automotive restoration shops would have started powder coating entire car bodies by now, especially reproduction new car bodies.

flatheadz-forever
08-20-2013, 10:01 AM
then all collision shops would have to have ovens to bake the repaired cars for starters

studebaker eric
08-20-2013, 10:08 AM
A vehicle is a consumable commodity, with a 7 to 10 year lifespan for the original purchaser. If they are built too good, there will be no need to replace them with new products.

Drive Em
08-20-2013, 10:15 AM
Those are both good answers above. I am wondering whether the reason is that powder coating would not last in the harsh environment that a vehicle exterior finish must stand up to?

tfeverfred
08-20-2013, 10:20 AM
Didn't Car Craft build a Camaro a while back that was powder coated? When exposed to direct sunlight, powder coat will fade rather quickly, compared to paint.

Rex_A_Lott
08-20-2013, 10:20 AM
There has been some research into powder clearcoating, especially in Europe, but so far its not Cost effective.

Larry T
08-20-2013, 10:23 AM
Lots of motorcycle sheetmetal is powdercoated. I seem to remember (feeble mind though) Harley powder coating some of their gas tanks from the factory.

I would think the drawback on cars would be the size of the job.

Flat-Foot
08-20-2013, 10:28 AM
I watched a "how it's made" type show about the new gen camaros. The paint process they used was similar to powder coating.

Don's Hot Rods
08-20-2013, 10:28 AM
It would be almost impossible to repair body damage because traditional fillers won't stand up to the heat of the process. They could use one of the fillers designed to work with the 400 degree temps, but those are hard to work, very hard to sand.

Another issue might be the 400 degree temps might warp the sheet metal. My Son is talking about having the roll cage in his Mustang powder coated but they have to do that with low temp powder coating so as not to over heat the body.

Don

RMR&C
08-20-2013, 10:29 AM
A powder coated vehicle would not last long any where they salt the roads in winter..

Personally, I hate the stuff.

sheesh
08-20-2013, 10:44 AM
only some powdercoat colors are UV resistant and they oxidize pretty quick, it does not flow out well so there can be texture issues, dosen't sand and buff worth a crap, without a really good epoxy undercoat steel will rust as its not all that water proof, it will not bridge a gap nor will it flow into overlap areas, spot repairs are visible, for a car the biggest issue is you can't lay down an even coat so metallic colors are striped or splotchy. There is a filler material being sold but Ive always used jb weld for steel

plym_46
08-20-2013, 10:48 AM
It seems with powder coating there is no mechanical or chemical bond between the coated surface and the coating, It's held on by electricity when applied, when baked it coalesces into a surface that floats above the object it covers. This is plain to see here in the Northeast. My snow blower is powder coated. It great as long as surface remains intact and contiguous. But with tool, that seems a short lived state. As gouge from a stone, a scratch caused by the curb, etc opens a path for moisture in this case laden with salt, to get between the coating and the metal. then you get a bubble, then the bubble spreads, then the area of powder cracks ad come off exposing bare metal, and presenting an edge where more moisture can enter. If you try to repair the area with paint, you can not feather edge the powder coat, and paint will not adhere to the edge of the powder. So eventually the whole area will sluff off. Ford tried powder coated frames on Explorers in the mid 90's, more Explorers were removed from the road here at safety inspections time for rusted frames, than for any other reason than collision damage. Ford of course accepted no responsibility for the failure of their surface coating. Claiming unusual outside influences caused the failure, like road salt and sand /stone dust for winter road treatment are unheard of..... I think they use the same stuff in Michigan................

charlesincharge09
08-20-2013, 10:52 AM
then all collision shops would have to have ovens to bake the repaired cars for starters


Perfect answer, i would like to add to that. There is no way to touch up powder coating, if you get an an accident and mess up a fender or a door, it would be easy enough to fix/replace then powder coat and install. But lets say you get an an accident in the rear quarter panel. Cant blend it, and Sure as hell cant put a whole vehicle with all the drive train, electrical, gas tank, interior in an oven

B Ramsey
08-20-2013, 10:56 AM
Because powder coating sucks. I used to coat stuff all the time. Now I just use paint.

mike in tucson
08-20-2013, 10:58 AM
Powder coating gives an orange peel look....you can sand and buff it but it is tough. I once saw a mid 80's Chevy truck hood and fenders at the powder coat shop that was being sanded and buffed smooth....really nice. Also, the powder coat process is cost prohibitive for an auto mfgr. Paint can be applied and baked and then spot plasma reflowed easily. I am not aware if they can spot reflow powder coat with a plasma gun.

By the way, I was told by one of the OEM paint suppliers that the paint job on a car is the SINGLE most expensive item on a car....more $$ than an engine

plym_46
08-20-2013, 11:21 AM
I find that a little hard to believe with as little product as the robots put on these cars today. Older paint used to be from 7 to 11 mils thick including primer, your lucky to get 6 these days probably 2 primer, 2 color and 1 clear coat.

slowmotion
08-20-2013, 11:32 AM
Powdercoating has its place. But I've seen implements and bike frames were it peels of like an egg shell when compromised.

superiorslots
08-20-2013, 11:34 AM
Those are both good answers above. I am wondering whether the reason is that powder coating would not last in the harsh environment that a vehicle exterior finish must stand up to?

I bought a Brush Hog cutter new and the deck was powder coated..great for durability-scratches etc but the red is turning pink and the cutter never stays outside and has never been in the rain etc

superiorslots
08-20-2013, 11:36 AM
Because powder coating sucks. I used to coat stuff all the time. Now I just use paint.


I never saw the fascination with the stuff. I would prefer paint any day-more gloss etc.

Crazy Steve
08-20-2013, 12:22 PM
Lots of answers, but not all the right ones.....

Powdercoat is a plastic (and a fairly soft one at that), and as such 'micro-scratches' easily. Pick up a polyethylene toy for a kid; it will be nice and shiny when brand new, but washing/handling will put small scratches on the finish and it will dull eventually. It can be used for exterior finish, but for appearance needs a clearcoat over it as the paint will actually be a harder finish and better able to resist scratching. Powder is also nearly impossible to touch-up/repair. You nearly always have to fully strip the item and completely re-do the coating for best results.

As far as durability, if properly applied, powder will resist chipping/peeling far better than paint as well as most common automotive chemicals/fluids. When you see peeling powder, it's because the prep wasn't done right. Pretty common in OEM applications as they skip sandblasting before coating and that sometimes doesn't give enough 'tooth' on the surface for the coating to bond to.

I rebuild/'restore' motorcycles, and powder is my 'go to' coating for nearly
everything except for the tank, fenders and any 'body-color' trim. Same for car parts.....

3quarter32
08-20-2013, 12:50 PM
When I had my frame powder coated, the finish I choose was a textured type. They clear powder coated over that. Smooth finish and so far no complaints.

Mike51Merc
08-20-2013, 01:24 PM
I've learned a lot on this thread, mainly that I don't want to ever have anything power coated.

Soviet
08-20-2013, 01:33 PM
Polaris's new paint line is a self contained powder coating system. Not cars, but powder coating does have advantages that are preferable over paint in some industries.

Rem
08-20-2013, 01:46 PM
If you've ever had to strip flaking powder coat from a rusting motorcycle tank you'll know why it is avoided by the big manufacturers for use on sheetmetal. If you're building something to quickly move on without too much outlay then powdercoating clean metal parts is probably going to be quicker and cheaper than a quality paint job, but if you're building something that you plan to keep then stick to the runny stuff.

And powder coating isn't traditional :)

murfman
08-20-2013, 02:50 PM
I built a cart for my garbage cans 10 years ago and had it powder coated red, it still is as red and shiny as it was the day I brought it home. It sits outside in direct sunshine all day every day, it gets blasted with road salt in the winter, and bakes in the summer sun. It does have a bunch of scrapes and scratches that it acquired over the years, bur I have never washed/waxed or even cleaned it ever, the only baths it gets are from the rain.

I also have an OT Jeep wrangler with 3/16 plating all around the body that I had Powder coated and it holds up far better than paint ever would dragging it across rocks, tree stumps, etc...

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x205/murfman_photo/zo.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/murfman_photo/media/zo.jpg.html)

In this picture the Powder coating is 8 years old and includes the front fender, rocker panel, and rear quarters. This is after countless off roading trips in deep mud, through tight wooded trails etc.. It has held up exceptionally well.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x205/murfman_photo/DSC02318.jpg (http://s184.photobucket.com/user/murfman_photo/media/DSC02318.jpg.html)

PaRatRod
08-20-2013, 03:16 PM
BMW was using a clear powdercoat at one time. Not sure if they still are.

http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/bmw/assembly/painting.htm

Frenchy Dehoux
08-20-2013, 03:19 PM
I Powder coated my 1932 4 years ago see pictures. Also the frame and the rear housing ,wheels,backing plates, heads,generator,starter and many other parts. I also bought my own kit to start doing my powder coating at home for my next project I will be saving some money for sure.

Frenchy

Rex_A_Lott
08-20-2013, 03:33 PM
BMW was using a clear powdercoat at one time. Not sure if they still are.

http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/bmw/assembly/painting.htm


Not in the US.:)

ChefMike
08-20-2013, 04:15 PM
they cant build them to last ! we have the option of building our rides to last multiple life times! They want you to buy a new ride every three - five years

turboroadster
08-20-2013, 04:29 PM
Those are both good answers above. I am wondering whether the reason is that powder coating would not last in the harsh environment that a vehicle exterior finish must stand up to?

your kidding right?
first off can you think they will go through the expense to make something better if you as a consumer will buy it as is now ?
secondly, it would be a pain in the ass to expect every repair shop to be able to strip a vehicle to metal, sans all rubber and bake on a finish.... paint is king in the auto industry.
as far as durability, especially with todays technology in powders, its crazy durable, all colors, candies, flakes, blends, hybrids etc etc etc, powder is waaaay different now a days than it used to be.
I do powder tons of parts, but not bodies.

turboroadster
08-20-2013, 04:31 PM
only some powdercoat colors are UV resistant and they oxidize pretty quick, it does not flow out well so there can be texture issues, dosen't sand and buff worth a crap, without a really good epoxy undercoat steel will rust as its not all that water proof, it will not bridge a gap nor will it flow into overlap areas, spot repairs are visible, for a car the biggest issue is you can't lay down an even coat so metallic colors are striped or splotchy. There is a filler material being sold but Ive always used jb weld for steel

this guy knows nothing about powder, I mean really, this much info and its all wrong....damn, thanks for participating.
I have to wonder, when people ask a question no matter the subject, why do some bother to answer if they truly do not know? baffles me.

Rick Barakat
08-20-2013, 04:50 PM
Powder coating does have its uses. I could never have have painted the chassis on my tube framed 5 passenger off road vehicle to even come close to the gloss and coverage of powder coating. I also had all the aluminum body panels coated and there was zero warping. Also, it is very scratch resistant and durable. Sprayed paint could never handle the abuse of powder coating.

That being said, it did fade after a few years.

anthony myrick
08-20-2013, 05:07 PM
1. Powder coating technology has not caught up with conventional painting with uv and corrosion resistance and cost for manufactures. 2. If powder coating was as good or almost as good as conventional paint and was cheaper, car manufactures would already use it. 3. To repair a powder coated car you would have to strip a car down to its bare shell in order to re-coat. Gas tanks, leather interiors and adhesives would not handle the temperatures.

seabeecmc
08-20-2013, 05:19 PM
It's the HAMBster way. No shortage of bad information relayed as Gospel. Ron


I have to wonder, when people ask a question no matter the subject, why do some bother to answer if they truly do not know? baffles me.

sheesh
08-20-2013, 07:19 PM
this guy knows nothing about powder, I mean really, this much info and its all wrong....damn, thanks for participating.
I have to wonder, when people ask a question no matter the subject, why do some bother to answer if they truly do not know? baffles me.

great spew, what alternate universe did you cross over from?

turboroadster
08-20-2013, 08:31 PM
great spew, what alternate universe did you cross over from?

no reason to get butt hurt, but you obviously dont know squat about powder as has been proven by your previous post and now your tweaked because someone that DOES know about modern powder technology has commented.
I dont mind explaining some to you if you need, heck, who knows, you might learn something, whether its what you expected or not, its always good to learn new stuff.

sheesh
08-20-2013, 08:42 PM
if you can't actually point out what was wrong thats ok, but seriously? just flapping your gums and running me down dosen't exactly point towards your "grand" knowledge

INVISIBLEKID
08-20-2013, 08:51 PM
great spew, what alternate universe did you cross over from?

this guy knows nothing about powder, I mean really, this much info and its all wrong....damn, thanks for participating.
I have to wonder, when people ask a question no matter the subject, why do some bother to answer if they truly do not know? baffles me.


Some get it-Some don't.....Would I coat a body? Probably not.
Anything else-Ab-so-F'n-lutelly....I guess because I can.
Time/expense/finnish/durabillity........
Never,Never had any issues with my own work. That's MINE,not a pro shop,or farmed out work. And I know the guy's that do this for a living are more skilled/have better equipment than I do.
TRDSTR- I get it,and am VERY happy that I do!
sheesh-Really? Have you tried yourself? or just farmed out and had a bad deal? We're here listening.
I would like to know MYSELF why you think PC might be"bullshit", and those are my words,not yours.:confused:

turboroadster
08-20-2013, 08:58 PM
if you can't actually point out what was wrong thats ok, but seriously? just flapping your gums and running me down dosen't exactly point towards your "grand" knowledge

no gum flapping nor running you down, but you were incorrect and I feel that correct info should be given. This is a subject I do know and dont mind sharing how I do some things with powder.
ok here we go:
Originally Posted by sheesh http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/hamb/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9161209#post9161209)
only some powdercoat colors are UV resistant and they oxidize pretty quick, (If you purchase from a reputable dealer, you get quality products, same in the paint industry, Earl Shives paints cars too but you wouldnt do your 32 in it)
it does not flow out well so there can be texture issues,
Negative, again, good stuff flows like glass now a days)
dosen't sand and buff worth a crap,
Negative, sands and buffs just as well
without a really good epoxy undercoat steel will rust as its not all that water proof,
Are you kidding, total encapsulation with todays premium products isnt waterproof? Do I really need to address this one? There are powdered primers and such as well
it will not bridge a gap nor will it flow into overlap areas,
trust me it will, as evidenced in a lot of steel rims I see done, the coaters go on so heavy it crosses the gap in some places and none in others, I dunno why you think it wont flow over lap, I do multi layered powder jobs all the time, flows out right nicely
spot repairs are visible,
and sometimes not, just like paint.
for a car the biggest issue is you can't lay down an even coat so metallic colors are striped or splotchy.
I could do it no worries, good equipment, good experience, I specialize in flakes and candies, not car panels obviously, but big stuff like gas tank skid plates on huge lifted 4x4 trucks, big front skid plate panels etc etc etc, my work goes to SEMA each year on various vehicles and the flakes are always perfect as it should be. Just saying it can be done and I cant be the only one that knows how.
There is a filler material being sold but Ive always used jb weld for steel
Truth here, I use it also for small dimples when I do moto tanks etc etc

Mike Rouse
08-20-2013, 08:59 PM
Lets see powder coating requires the object to be coated to be placed in an oven at 450 degrees F. The seats would melt, the rubber would explode and the gas tank, well you get the idea. Would not be pretty.

Mike

spuds
08-20-2013, 09:08 PM
Is there in metal in a new car.....plastic melts in the oven.............

1934coupe
08-20-2013, 09:21 PM
All of the answers about fading in the sun and not lasting etc. I've got parts powder coated years ago and they look like the day they where done also this from BMW;

Powder-Based Clear Coat

As early as in May 1997 the BMW Group was the world�s first automobile manufacturer to use environmentally friendly powder-based clear lacquer, which gives the colors an even more brilliant shine. Since then this technology has been constantly refined and developed even further. The white high-tech powder is applied by spray pistols. When the powder leaves the pistols, electrostatic charge is built up through electrodes, that allow the powder particles to stick to the earthed body. When the car goes into the hot chamber, the white powder melts because of the heat, becomes transparent and unites with the colored water-soluble paint.


Powder-based clear coating offers many advantages: The highest possible standard of quality is offered to the customer, as the highest BMW quality standards in terms of looks and functionality are fulfilled.

Application of powder clear coat in the BMW plant Dingolfing / Germany
Fully automatic application of powder clear coat

Pat

charlesincharge09
08-20-2013, 09:36 PM
no gum flapping nor running you down, but you were incorrect and I feel that correct info should be given. This is a subject I do know and dont mind sharing how I do some things with powder.
ok here we go:
Originally Posted by sheesh http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/hamb/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9161209#post9161209)
only some powdercoat colors are UV resistant and they oxidize pretty quick, (If you purchase from a reputable dealer, you get quality products, same in the paint industry, Earl Shives paints cars too but you wouldnt do your 32 in it)
it does not flow out well so there can be texture issues,
Negative, again, good stuff flows like glass now a days)
dosen't sand and buff worth a crap,
Negative, sands and buffs just as well
without a really good epoxy undercoat steel will rust as its not all that water proof,
Are you kidding, total encapsulation with todays premium products isnt waterproof? Do I really need to address this one? There are powdered primers and such as well
it will not bridge a gap nor will it flow into overlap areas,
trust me it will, as evidenced in a lot of steel rims I see done, the coaters go on so heavy it crosses the gap in some places and none in others, I dunno why you think it wont flow over lap, I do multi layered powder jobs all the time, flows out right nicely
spot repairs are visible,
and sometimes not, just like paint.
for a car the biggest issue is you can't lay down an even coat so metallic colors are striped or splotchy.
I could do it no worries, good equipment, good experience, I specialize in flakes and candies, not car panels obviously, but big stuff like gas tank skid plates on huge lifted 4x4 trucks, big front skid plate panels etc etc etc, my work goes to SEMA each year on various vehicles and the flakes are always perfect as it should be. Just saying it can be done and I cant be the only one that knows how.
There is a filler material being sold but Ive always used jb weld for steel
Truth here, I use it also for small dimples when I do moto tanks etc etc


Great information that I never knew, I got the tank on my bike powder coated candy copper over swirls I made in the metal, I was unaware about metal flake powder coat and would be interested to see some stuff.

Here is a picture of the swirls in my tank
20103102010311


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redlinetoys
08-20-2013, 09:45 PM
Some of the questions about powder are certainly valid. The truth is it is definitely something that can be done on the exterior of an automobile.

As has already been stated, BMW in Germany is WAY ahead of the curve with both hydro primers and basecoats and powder clear coat on production automobiles. And, yes, these cars can be repaired when they are damaged. They have been doing it successfully for some years. BMW in the States uses hydro primers and basecoats, but conventional 2K solvent base urethane clear.

The Smart car has powder coating on the entire steel swoop or space frame on the exterior of the vehicle. I worked for the company that developed that powder and they won multiple awards for the product which was considered very high performance, environmentally friendly and low maintenance. Basically when you see a red Smart with the dark gray or black swoop, that swoop is steel and powdercoated. The rest is plastic and has 2k urethane.

I also worked on a top secret project called Trillium in the United States for Jeep. The idea was that they would completely powder coat new Jeeps, mainly for the advertising purposes of having one of the toughest coating systems out there. The Jeep hoods we coated in our lab looked like absolute glass. The coating was stunning.

Unfortunately, the project was cancelled for several reasons. For one, the problem of taking a multi, multi million dollar paint line investment and converting it to powder coat. A hard sell. Two, powder coats go on the car at twice the film thickness or better. Even with better transfer efficiency, that means twice as much coating on every car. When you start to think about doubling the cost of painting an automobile, it is difficult to further consider, maybe not enough to be offset by the marketing advantages.

Keep in mind powder coat is essentially dry paint that is chipped up and applied to the vehicle and then melted again. It is a formulation just like paint and there are bad coatings and good coatings. Multiple resins including polyester and epoxy are used just like paint. Obviously, the cheapest powders are applied to lawn furniture, toys, wheel barrels, etc. There are also very high quality coatings available with high gloss, great hardness and long term weathering.

Many guys here are making generic statements about something they really know nothing about except for maybe one little bit of personal experience or hearsay. There is more to the story and much to learn if one is really interested.

I find it interesting to read of the several hobbyist vehicles above that have experimented successfully with powder. Of course, all that being said, I really just miss true nitrocellulose lacquer!

turboroadster
08-20-2013, 09:46 PM
^^ very nice! there are candies in just about any color you like, pimp bike!

I need to update my site but there are a few photos of some old lace jobs I did in powder,, various flaked layers etc etc.

charlesincharge09
08-21-2013, 06:57 AM
^^ very nice! there are candies in just about any color you like, pimp bike!

I need to update my site but there are a few photos of some old lace jobs I did in powder,, various flaked layers etc etc.

I've heard plenty about ceramic jet-coat, how does it differ from a high temp ceramic powder coat? I have had hit and miss with VHT header paint (and yes I follow directions and bake it on)


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theHIGHLANDER
08-21-2013, 07:57 AM
Well just like anything, prep and quality materials rule the day, or the job. There was a Mustang floating around Motown that was powder coated, the body, fenders, all of it. A medium red color, and even in the low quality phone pics I was shown, I wasn't impressed. But then again, I'm a painter. I powder stuff, have a couple sources I trust. Good apps exist for the tech but you need to know your jobber and your business. Lazy, like stupid, is the latest pandemic in our society. Try to avoid both at all cost.

turboroadster
08-21-2013, 09:23 AM
I've heard plenty about ceramic jet-coat, how does it differ from a high temp ceramic powder coat? I have had hit and miss with VHT header paint (and yes I follow directions and bake it on)


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the average high temp powder is great for motorcycle headers, not at all gonna last with the heat of a v-8.

turboroadster
08-21-2013, 09:25 AM
Well just like anything, prep and quality materials rule the day, or the job. There was a Mustang floating around Motown that was powder coated, the body, fenders, all of it. A medium red color, and even in the low quality phone pics I was shown, I wasn't impressed. But then again, I'm a painter. I powder stuff, have a couple sources I trust. Good apps exist for the tech but you need to know your jobber and your business. Lazy, like stupid, is the latest pandemic in our society. Try to avoid both at all cost.

^^^this!:D
With anything, prep is massively important and quality of product is of equal importance and skill level is a must, add em together in the right percentage and success with anything.

GirchyGirchy
08-21-2013, 09:42 AM
^^^this!:D
With anything, prep is massively important and quality of product is of equal importance and skill level is a must, add em together in the right percentage and success with anything.
I was going to say this...if it's flaking off from rusting underneath, then someone didn't do their prep right.

denis4x4
08-21-2013, 10:20 AM
The frame, wheels and running gear on my Zipper were powder painted 15 years ago and still look like new. Too bad there isn't a BS filter on the HAMB as there are a lot of BS statements on PC in this thread

Roadkill
08-21-2013, 01:41 PM
I have powdered panels as large as 6ftx10ft gloss black, just beautiful. I have done Harley tanks and all manner of things. Prep work is the key to your results. There is alot of misinformation here perhaps due to a bad experience. The powder primer is a
very good base coat in its self. There are many many very good coaters doing fantastic work these days. It surly has its place in modern coatings.

burnout2614
08-22-2013, 12:45 AM
Of the 5 powder coating shops I have used so far NONE of the paint held up. Most parts have loosened paint before I can install the part. I am not giving up. We have several shops in my area that provide the service. Hopefully I will find a good one. peace

chopolds
08-22-2013, 05:52 AM
I can't believe no one has mentioned that paint looks BETTER than powder as the main reason?
Powdercoating is mostly opaque, and has a lot of solids in it, that's one reason it's so tough. Paint on the other hand, contains more trasnparent resins, so it has much better depth of finish. NOT shine, but depth, loke a good lacquer job, or candy paint. You can SEE through layers of it.
While some of today's BC/CC paints are gettting more opaque, but still shiny, due to the clear, it still looks better than powder.
I use powder on chassis stuff, but it doesn't look good enough for me to do on bodies.

cryobug
08-22-2013, 07:57 AM
I have just as good if not better luck with properly prepped painted parts than professional powder coating.

treb11
08-22-2013, 09:26 AM
I find that a little hard to believe with as little product as the robots put on these cars today. Older paint used to be from 7 to 11 mils thick including primer, your lucky to get 6 these days probably 2 primer, 2 color and 1 clear coat.

the paint only has to last one day longer than the warranty. anything else is waste and $ lost to the manufacturer.

8flat
08-22-2013, 10:58 AM
I had heard a lot of the bad rumors about powder also, until I took my new wheels to a local powder coater that is super anal. Saw some of his work (swirls, metallics, clears) and also learned that he uses a very good zinc-based primer coat before the top coat. My wheels turned out beautiful, no orange peel, very high gloss. I'm happy.

But a whole car? problematic to repair, I would think?

White05GT
08-22-2013, 11:44 AM
I Powder coated my 1932 4 years ago see pictures. Also the frame and the rear housing ,wheels,backing plates, heads,generator,starter and many other parts. I also bought my own kit to start doing my powder coating at home for my next project I will be saving some money for sure.

Frenchy
Love your Deuce! Would dig having one just like it.

Model T1
08-22-2013, 12:07 PM
Don't quote me on this. I may be wrong. I remember being wrong once before.... But I could also be wrong about that.
Many years ago I worked for a company that makes large yeller tractors and things.
Notice those yeller things are no longer the original Caterpillar yeller. As far as I remember over 25 years ago they switched to powder coating almost all parts. If it works for heavy equipment shouldn't it be fine on an old 32 Ford?

Crazy Steve
08-22-2013, 12:28 PM
...With anything, prep is massively important and quality of product is of equal importance and skill level is a must, add em together in the right percentage and success with anything.

Pre-coating prep is even more important with powder compared to paint. Paint can cover poor prep (you may have problems later, but it'll look good for at least a while), but with powder, the surface has to be CLEAN AND DRY! I usually coat parts straight out of the blast cabinet, I'll just blow any dust off with compressed air then coat. But if you have parts that were heavily corroded or in contact with grease/oil, you have to be extra diligent to make sure every trace of contaminants is gone. Preheating and a second trip to the blaster can be needed. This is particularly true with aluminum or castings. Powder has suffered from a lot of hype (it's easy to do! Lasts forever! Etc, etc...), and for most 'simple' parts it's as about as idiot-proof as anything I've seen. But for 'less simple' parts, you need to know what you're doing. When I first started doing home coating, I had lots of miscues (a least favorite thing is removing a bad coating; even a crappy coat will stick far better than paint) but I learned from my mistakes and rarely have problems anymore. I don't have a large oven, so I still farm larger items out and there's a lot of so-called pros that do extremely crappy work, almost always caused by poor prep.

Powder isn't a 'miracle' coating, but if you understand it's limitations, do the prep right and apply it right, it's about a close as you can get.

I'll tell you one place where it simply can't be beat by any other coating method.... battery trays and holdowns. If you have a nasty, rusty tray, sandblast it clean (and I mean every last trace of rust), preheat it to 200 degrees (for a thicker coat), then coat. Repeat the preheat/coat a few times and the finished part will look like it's molded out of plastic and will impervious to future corrosion as long as you don't breach the coating.

speedshifter
08-22-2013, 01:48 PM
I toured the Spirit Lake Ia plant where Victory & Indian are being assembled. Frames & other small parts are powder coated. I asked the tour guide why tanks & fenders were not p coated. He said modern paint gives a deeper gloss and just plain looks better. I was surprised to see painted tanks being hand buffed before being installed on the cycles. Greg

redlinetoys
08-22-2013, 07:03 PM
Don't quote me on this. I may be wrong. I remember being wrong once before.... But I could also be wrong about that.
Many years ago I worked for a company that makes large yeller tractors and things.
Notice those yeller things are no longer the original Caterpillar yeller. As far as I remember over 25 years ago they switched to powder coating almost all parts. If it works for heavy equipment shouldn't it be fine on an old 32 Ford?

I don't think the change from bright yellow to buff color had anything to do with going to powder coat.

The bright yellow pigments went from chrome and lead based pigment to non-lead, non-chrome. When that happened, automotive grade non fading yellow pigments doubled and tripled in price. It also takes about 2-4 times as much of that expensive pigment to even approach the hiding of the original lead/chrome based paint. Imagine what that combination did to pricing. Many OEM companies changed their standard color combinations in response, including Cat.

Model T1
08-22-2013, 08:16 PM
Bob of Redlinetoys That does make sense. This is about when the big switch was from lead based paints everywhere. I do know that Cat switched to paint booths with electrically charged paint systems and there was little or no overspray. However I was driving a truck for them by then and wasn't around the assembly and manufacturing areas anymore.
I also notice more things are now powdercoated and seem durable. However many are smaller items that are made to be thrown away soon. As are lawn chairs and yard tools.

Roadkill
08-23-2013, 09:42 AM
I have been following this post and realized that there is a lot of misinformation that is being assumed as correct. now to be honest on my part here, I have not used any of the (imo) lesser quality coating guns or kitchen oven setups that some people are using, these may be fine for them however when referring to a crummy powder coat job, the reason for coating failure needs to be determined, more likely then not, it is a prep issuse, curing problem or a equipment problem . Spending a 100 bucks
and using moms oven is not comparing apples to apples. there is a lot of good info from some doers here, ie experienced coaters, but there is a
bunch of BS info that is simply incorrect. I wouldn't go buy a case of
spray paint to paint my car and then when it failed, blame it on the product.