fill with sand???

[Dan]

In one of the magazines there was an article about building your own english wheel, the author filled the square tube frame with sand. I wonder if there would be any benefit to filling other shop-built square tube equipment (i.e. engine stands, grinder stands, engine hoists, welding tables, etc.) with sand??? Other than adding weight (which I dont know if that would necesarily be a good thing?) would there be any good reason to do it?

[Shiva69]

I have heard it done w/ planishing hammers because it helps quite them down a bit(they are very noisy). But other than add weight i can't see why they would put sand inside its tubes.

I wouldn't think you should put sand in any equipment except maybe an engine hoist (as long as your not adding stress to the hoist) it would be a bit sturdier.. but no idea other than that.

Garth

[Greazer]

I read that article (StreetRrodder Feb 04 right?). It seems that the author added the sand for extra rigidity. I was under the impression it would help the english wheel keep it's "c" shape.

[Junkyard Dog 32]

I saw that, too.

Made me laugh was all.
WTF?
That sand didn't do anything but deprive some poor cat of a place to shit.

JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[modernbeat]

I read that to and I think that either the builder doesn't know what he'd doing, or more probable, the writer missunderstood why it was being done.

The sand doesn't add any rigidity, but it DOES add some dampening and some anti-momentum to keep it from running around while you're working on it.

Plus, that frame could be made MUCH MUCH stiffer by moving a couple of the struts. I'll post pics of the one my pal made two months ago.

[Dan]

That was kinda what I was thinking, I couldn't really see the benefit in it either?? I do have my bench grinder mounted on a tubing "pedestal" and I thought maybe filling it with sand might help to dampen some of the vibration???

[Junkyard Dog 32]

Dampen...Yes

Strengthen...No

[lowsquire]

maybe the tubing was bent using the sand fill method to stop it kinking when heated and bent...thats the only valid reason to stick sand in a tube I know of.
yknow whats wierd ,my cat shat inside last night....maybe it was his sand http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[sawzall]

the purpose of the sand is to "plant" the machine in one place on the floor while using it.. IN my OPINION.. if you were to build a machine identical to the one pictured in the article you would not need the silly sand.. nor the stupid weight jacker lifters..

I'm thinkin the writer of the article doesnt know what he is doing.. since the last sentence of the article said "now all I have to do is learn how to use it" (the e wheel)

later

[38Chevy454]

I agree, the sand is not there for stiffness. The steel frame is the stiff part, the sand adds weight and dampening only. Stiffness is determined by the shape of the material. A tube is inherently very stiff. Adding a couple reinforcement stiffening pieces makes it even better.

[Unkl Ian]

If he's ever going to attatch a pneumatic planishing hammer on the frame,
like we did at Sulpy's,
he will be glad it's full of sand.A big hollow frame will act like a sound box and amplify the noise.

Otherwise,he's just making it heavier.

[Kevin Lee]

I know I'm going against the official HAMB metalurgist here, but I don't see how it couldn't be stiffer/stronger with the sand added. When was the last time anyone here ate a Pixi Stik? Sure is alot easier to crumple and bend the tube after you've eaten the contents.

[Junkyard Dog 32]

Concrete might have been a better bet.

...and another thing.

Never...never...NEVER weld a nut or female threaded insert with the bolt in it. (as in pic 15)
Metal shrinks smaller than it's original size when it cools.
9 out of 10 times you won't get it out without frying the threads.
You can get away with it, if you're worried about spattering the threads, but only turn the bolt in one turn, and take it out right away. After it cools, run a tap or thread chaser through it.


JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[38Chevy454]

I agree with JYD32, if he really wanted to make it stiffer, use concrete.

Grimlok, the reason that the sand does not help is because the sand is not continuous, such as concrete would be. Your analogy of the pixi stick is not really valid, as the amount of flex to make the sand have any effect would be way past the point where the english wheel has done any good.

The best way to make it stiffer is to use thicker wall tubing, with bracing.

Sand will help dampen noise. Kinda unrealted, but cast iron is very good at dampening sound, as compared to steel. But you would not want to make the frame out of cast iron, as you would not be able to weld it or have the tubing to build it from.

[Kevin Lee]

Fair enough.

[Junkyard Dog 32]

I've never used an English wheel, or seen on in use, but I was sort of thinking along the lines of 38CHEVY454. If you put that much pressure on the thing (enough to bend that big-ass tubing) how the hell would you be able to roll the metal through the wheels? Does it require that much pressure?


JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[fab32]

An english wheel uses very little pressure to operate. If you use excessive pressure the rollers will leave tracks in the metal that you have to "wheel" out with less pressure.
If anyone wants to have some inexpensive fun go the the RRT and build the small english wheel that they give directions for. Its made out of common stuff and you will have a ball just wheeling small panels. Its a good thing to have if you want to learn how an english wheel operates without the expence of a large one.

Frank

[Honest]

When I die..please fill my boots with sand ..put a cold one in my hand..and prop me up against the juke box.
Thank You

[Junkyard Dog 32]

[ QUOTE ]
An english wheel requires very little pressure to operate.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well... What a waste of all that sand, then. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Tinbender]

[ QUOTE ]
Concrete might have been a better bet.

...and another thing.

Never...never...NEVER weld a nut or female threaded insert with the bolt in it. (as in pic 15)
Metal shrinks smaller than it's original size when it cools.
9 out of 10 times you won't get it out without frying the threads.
You can get away with it, if you're worried about spattering the threads, but only turn the bolt in one turn, and take it out right away. After it cools, run a tap or thread chaser through it.


JOEhttp://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't know, I've done that at least a hundred times. Never had a problem. Maybe I'm just lucky?
A good way to protect threads during welding is to coat them with tip dip. (anti spatter compound)