Will the H.A.M.B. be a political force?

[Fastsporty]

The Primemedia/ young guns really got me thinking.
We are over 4300 members strong, our membership has alomst doubled in the last year alone!
We will very soon if not presently have they power to influence the product market.
Whether its the magazines, suppliers or manufactuers,
we can be a force to be heard and make a difference.
How well would speedy Bill do if he got boycotted by 4300 custumers until he rectified the sittuation with Vern?
Or primedia got subscritions cancelled or boycotted?
Like it or not money talks and we spend a lot on our little "hobby"
Think about all the Lurkers out there that have not signed up yet...
Think about that we all have a few friends that should be on the HAMB ...
Our demagraphic is amazing.
We are worldwide.
We are multicultural.
Our age group ranges from 16 to the "elders"
Our income level ranges from "Can I borrow some gas money to Jay Leno.
We will have the power, it will be ours if we would like to take it....


Scary isn't it?

[sedan_dad]

Oh god ,lets not go there.

[burndup]

Yep, we could truly be a massive and unstoppable force promoting truth, justice, and burning rubber, but you've already hit the first snag, apathy.

[ QUOTE ]
Oh god ,lets not go there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Face it, even cool people are lazy.

But I'm all for boycotting speedy Bill, anything I need from there I could get from another HAMBer, or ebay, or heavens forbid, make myself. (BAD consumer, BAD!, BAD!)

[safariknut]

[ QUOTE ]
Yep, we could truly be a massive and unstoppable force promoting truth, justice, and burning rubber, but you've already hit the first snag, apathy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Someone whom I consider very knowledgeable told me once that the two things that will bring down any democracy are:Apathy and Ignorance to which I replied."Oh really? I didn't know that;but then again I really don't give a s**t!"Just kidding.

[RPW]

No

[Chuck Fish]

This is way too not cool.Let's just all concentrate on having a great Christmas,and remember the reason for the season! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chuck Fish

[BlacktopBrawler]

is this a joke? or do you really think any of the guys or gals on this board could ever agree on one subject long enough to really make a difference. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[HOTRODPRIMER]

[ QUOTE ]
This is way too not cool.Let's just all concentrate on having a great Christmas,and remember the reason for the season! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Chuck Fish

[/ QUOTE ] I'll second that motion...HRP

[Tinbender]

It's already happening. Maybe not a "political force" (whatever the hell that is) But an influence in the hobby / industry. The only question is where it will go from here.

[chromedRAT]

i don't know about politics, but i'd be the first one to sign up for the HAMBilitia!

[burndup]

[ QUOTE ]
i'd be the first one to sign up for the HAMBilitia!

[/ QUOTE ]

YES, fun!

We can get someone to write the HAMBunist Manifesto(TM), we can take over the world and ban lame cars, and raise all the speed limits by 50mph...

***
HUH? man I was asleep and just had the wierdest nightmare, that HAMBers took over the world....

[BlacktopBrawler]

[ QUOTE ]
i don't know about politics, but i'd be the first one to sign up for the HAMBilitia!

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe we can agree on something http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[briggs&strattonChev]

[ QUOTE ]
We are over 4300 members strong

[/ QUOTE ]

3909 to be exact (thats what it says on the main index)

[Jeff Norwell]

......pass the ammunition and praisethelowered http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[prime mover]

I agree with most of what you said but look through the screen name list and you'll see it looks like people just register names and dont use them. theres a few hundred with 0 posts. I'd say theres a couple hundred people here that would step up and make a difference and then could we get them to agree?

[Deuce Rails]

Well, we don't have a political agenda. And we don't have a party. We're not all of one mind.

However, if a HAMBer needs help, the guys on the HAMB provide it. That's all, and that's enough.

[sentinelT]

As far as being a force, you gotta remember, everyone is just here because we love rods. Instead of tryin to boycott that or rectify this we need to realize that it is best to just be cool and let everyone do what they like. We can all just do our own things and not worry about issues like this. Too much bad talk about any one person would not just change circumstances, but could also really harm what they do. Enough bad mouthing could topple someones job/dream/whatever. Why take that away from someone...

Although i do like the Hambilitia, hehehe, no rice burner is safe once we mobilize...

[Smokin Joe]

DeuceRails if you think the HAMB doesn't have a party, show up at the bend in the road next August! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

If I wanted a political agenda tho, I'd just join a car club...

[choprods]

Its not easy bein a BAD INFLUENCE........BUT thats about it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[quickrod]

time spent on politics to REALLY make a difference,would be less time on building rods,and THATS what this site is about,we'd be best to keep it fun and stress free for us and especally RYAN. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gifquickrod

[Design Guy]

See here's the thing. We already have a political force that uses it's weight to medle in the affairs of private businesses. It's called the Democratic Party.

If things aren't going the way you want them, don't try to force somebody into submission. Do it yourself and do it better. Don't like the way Primedia is doing business with R&C? Start your own mag. Don't like the way a manufacturer treats a shop owner (or vice versa), start manufacturing your own stuff.

This Unionized mentality would eventually bring a feeling of animosity toward HAMBers instead of friendly welcome. Those of you in California know exactly what I mean every time you go for groceries.

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Really, I am surprised to read what some of you guys are sayin'! I never would have guessed so many of you would be so apathetic. Yeah, really, who cares what they do... it doesn't make a difference to us.... right? That's not apathetic... that's pathetic... Who cares if the british wanna run the US? Who cares if tthe CSA wants to seperate from the USA? WHo Cares if Hitler wants to take over the world? Who Cares if the federal govt wants to crush all old cars??? Who cares if we all have to meet strict emmissions regulations? Who cares if we have no voice to speak up about anything we feel strongly about? Let's just be pacifists and let the world dictate how we live our lives....

[Design Guy]

what's worse?

Apathy or Cynicism

it's a toss up for me, I think.

[metalshapes]

I like cynicism, took me years to get good at it...

[Unkl Ian]

Sometimes the Cynics are right.

Few things are worse than Apathy,
and Incompetance.

[fab32]

Someone said we are 4300 members strong then another corrected that with 3900. We have a 500 discrepancy right off the bat. Now out of that 3900 how many support this board by posting on a regular basis? I'd be surprised if much over 200/250. If you don't believe that get a pad and pencil out and jot down who posts for a day or two. I did that awhile back and was kind of surprised at how few people there are that sign in regularly.
The last time I checked 2-300 people no matter how passionate they are don't make up much of a FORCE.
Lets do what we do best, talk, build and drive HOT RODS AND CUSTOMS and give each other a helping hand when we can.

Frank

[rikaguilera]

I think the point that fastsporty is trying to make is a valid one. Nobody is suggesting that we become lobbist and have somebody in D.C. But any manf. would be stupid not to give this site some attention. Lurkers were mentioned earlier, and you can't tell me, with all the press Ryan and some of the members of this site get, that people are not intrested in what is said here. Yes, with growth even the apathetic would have a say so in some subject matters that concearn our "hobby". It is inevitable. We have all seen a popularity in our intrest that is growing everyday. Those that have been involved with rods for a while refer to the new and intrested (and sometimes appropriatley so) as scenesters, and posers. You have to face it, old school rods, rat rods, retro rods are all becoming very popular. And with that, more people are and will be joinging this sight. So yes, you will have some kind of power that will be given by those that are after your dollars.

[Deyomatic]

If you don't think this place is a "force" then you are wrong.
Are ANY of us going to order parts from Obsolete Ford Parts out of OKC? Not after the way I heard they do business. I think GM Obsolete was another one alot of people bitched about.
I don't recall any of the GOOD businesses, wasn't there a post about that a while back?

[rikaguilera]

Good point. Just think, if even 1/10th of the members of this site were to write/email R/C about the recent cutting of their Young Guns ( as per previous post), what kind of attention would be earned. I know that more than that would write if an actual request for this response was made here on the board, as this is something that we pretty much all have an intrest in.

[bobbleed]

Politics are gay.

I like driving Hot Rods and "Breaking" stuff.

[roadstar]

This is just a message board....the best god damn fuckin son of bitchen message board EVER.....But it is still just a message board for hotrodders and I belive thats what the founder whats it to be... and STAY.

[Carps]

What the heck have some of you guys been smokin?

I'm with Roadstar.

Fact is if you take a look around here, this place is about buildin neat old style hot rods usin what's available and doin it the old fashioned way, under a shadetree with the help of your buddies. So the question is, no matter how many of us there are here on the H.A.M.B, do the magazine advertisisers really care? We don't buy their stuff, we make it, or scrounge it from junkyards or swapmeets etc. Sure there may be some trendsetters here but fact is, we're mostly grass roots low buch do it yourself hot rodders and big business doesn't really give a shit coz we don't spend like the folks who are not regular and active H.A.M.B.ers.

[ QUOTE ]
We are over 4300 members strong, our membership has alomst doubled in the last year alone!

[/ QUOTE ]

How many are actively involed in the car hobby and how many just registered on the off chance they may wish to participate in a discussion about music, tits, or tatoos?

[ QUOTE ]
We will very soon if not presently have they power to influence the product market.

[/ QUOTE ]

Considering what I've suggested above about our buying habits, how are we going to become such an influence?

[ QUOTE ]
Whether its the magazines, suppliers or manufactuers, we can be a force to be heard and make a difference.

[/ QUOTE ]

How many mainstream magazine owners are there? With how many titles? You don't think Primedia would like to trim the list a little? What sort of numbers do the mags targeted directly at us pump out each month by comparison?

[ QUOTE ]
How well would speedy Bill do if he got boycotted by 4300 custumers until he rectified the sittuation with Vern?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably wouldn't even notice it, his core business is high priced, high turnover race car stuff, the hot rod parts are purely incremental as I see it.

[ QUOTE ]
Or primedia got subscritions cancelled or boycotted?

[/ QUOTE ]

And how many times has R&C been killed off already? Do Primedia really need all the titles thay have?

[ QUOTE ]
Like it or not money talks and we spend a lot on our little "hobby"

[/ QUOTE ]

Not with the companies who advertise in the mainstream magazines we don't! Especially when we're compared to mainstream rodding, who on the other hand, really do spend a mountain of money on new and or repro parts.

[ QUOTE ]
Think about all the Lurkers out there that have not signed up yet...

[/ QUOTE ]

So why are they only lurkers? Maybe coz they are mainstream chequebook rodders only here out of curiosity and with no beef against their suppliers and the businesses they support.

[ QUOTE ]
Think about that we all have a few friends that should be on the HAMB ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, I have many hot rodding friends who don't understand why I frequent this place. They've had a look in and won't ever officially visit and certainly won't participate because they know what kinda tongue lashing they are likely to get if they let on what they like and how they are are building it.

[ QUOTE ]
Our demagraphic is amazing.
We are worldwide.
We are multicultural.
Our age group ranges from 16 to the "elders"
Our income level ranges from "Can I borrow some gas money to Jay Leno.

[/ QUOTE ]

And we are the minority. As far as the publishers and advertisers are concerned, we're not their customers and besides we don't count for much at all. Fact is, they wouldn't even notice us if we all went missing. Don't believe it, just ask Tex Smith next time ya see him, what killed Hot Rod Mechanix. Lack of advertisers, coz the mag was advocating do it yerself, which is what we're all about isn't it?

[ QUOTE ]
We will have the power, it will be ours if we would like to take it....

[/ QUOTE ]

How many hot rodders in the US? A couple of million, or a lot more? Based on the NSRA estimate of 2 mil that makes us less than one quarter of one percent. Even if there were 5,000 H.A.M.B. members that still only makes us just on one quarter of one percent. Now add all the other customers the businesses in question are marketing too, the racers, the street machiners, truckers and yes, even the bloody ricers, then redo the math.

Nope, I'm sorry we are so insignificant as a market force that nobody wouldn even notice if each and every one of us here on the H.A.M.B. just up and vanished.

Of course, united with our brother car nuts, it could be a whole different ballgame. But shit, we've kinda burnt a few bridges there haven't we?

[fab32]

Anybody else want to post on this topic? Before you do read and reread Carps post it says it all. When push comes to shove we aren't even a fly speck on a rhino's ass. Let's think about what Ryan gave as the reason for this board and what Roadstar restated, get back out in the garage and build something cool.
If that doesn't interest you get ahold of Hillary Clinton, she might be interested in beating a dead horse. A cause like this just might put her where she belongs, trying to keep track of who her husband is curently f**king.
I'll stick to my origional post and state that WE ARE NOT A FORCE when it comes to influencing big business.

Frank

[Fastsporty]

hmmn.. very interesting.
My post was not a rally cry or a doctrine for a political agenda, but merely a forsight of what may come in the future. Think I'm wrong? All it takes is a few individuals to reconize the fact there is money to be made off of us. That we can become part of their market share.
Carps I respect your opinion, but I do not agree.
But there will always be opinions...
Think that we are do it yourselfers? What do we build hot rods out of?
Steel, welders, tools, wire, pistons, bearings, etc.
All it takes is a shift in the advertisers, because design guy said it well. Magazines make room for the advertisers. Ergo they make room for the money. Its a sad fact that greed runs this world of ours. Once you come to terms with this you can if you choose use this to your advantage. One prime example is, and I hate to bring this up but the dreaded....
Von Dutch Originals
They took a symbol of us 1% ers and MARKETED it to people who don't even know who the !@#$ Ken Howard was. Now they are so sucesfull at it they are opening up stores at the highest rent areas in the nation. Damn, even abelugo's parody of von drunk T-shirt is already being copied and sold on venice beach as we sit here.
Just look at our HAMB calender, how many of you bought it because the proceeds will go back into the HAMB, or how many of you bought it because it was a kick ass calender? Either way we spent money and fast, the intial run is all but sold out!
All it takes is for some lurker or member to come up with a product we want. Then advertise is a mainstream magazine and that in turn will shift the focus a little to a magazines content. let me give you a example: lets say someone directs a product to the HAMB members for 50 bucks and lets say its a really good product that 500 people want ( I'm using the # of calenders for this one.) That puts $25,000 in his product gross. Now lets say he advertises in a well known hot rod magazine he can easily triple that first number making it $100,000 bucks in his pocket. On one item! But only if the magazine readership turns toward articles encompass we want to read. So presure it put on the magazine. Change then happens.
We all want in one way or another to return to a simpler time. That is very marketable.
H.A.M.B. the journal of TRADITIONAL hot rodding and customs.
This has nothing to do with Ryan or what he created. It is not in his control.
But a BYPRODUCT of what we have become.
The only way to avoid this would be to kill the hamb. But I think we are even to big for that to happen. Even if Ryan pulled the plug, The HAMB would resurface on some yahoo message board or its equal. it wouldn't be as good but it would be there.
As long as someone wants to build a hot rod. The HAMB will survive.


WHO IS JOHN GALT?

[Phil1934]

I like the fact this place is so independent while boards like streetrodstuff or hotrodders are part of a supplier's web site. We don't want to change the world, we just want to keep zoning enforcement out of our backyards. Knowledge is power. Let's leave it at that.

[Carps]

[ QUOTE ]
My post was not a rally cry or a doctrine for a political agenda, but merely a forsight of what may come in the future. Think I'm wrong? All it takes is a few individuals to reconize the fact there is money to be made off of us. That we can become part of their market share.
Carps I respect your opinion, but I do not agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

My opinion is based on now.

[ QUOTE ]
Think that we are do it yourselfers? What do we build hot rods out of?
Steel, welders, tools, wire, pistons, bearings, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yup, and none of the people I get that stuff from advertise in any kind of Hot Rod Magazine. I need their stuff, I have to track them down, buy the magazines they advertise in or let my fingers do the walking etc.

[ QUOTE ]
Magazines make room for the advertisers. Ergo they make room for the money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is why they won't change in our favour too quickly, because there's simply not enough of us and we don't want what their advertisers offer. The tool and consumable companies won't advertise in hobby magazines because there's greater opportunity and reach for them in the trade magazines that go directly to thier core group of regular customers. These businesses survive on high volume repeat business and hobby guys don't buy tools in volume on a regular basis. That's why you don't see the Snap on truck cruising the suburbs pulling into every hot rodder's driveway and why they do pull into every auto dealership etc.

[ QUOTE ]
Its a sad fact that greed runs this world of ours.

[/ QUOTE ]

Been that way since the beginning of time, don't figure it's about to change.

[ QUOTE ]
Once you come to terms with this you can if you choose use this to your advantage. One prime example is, and I hate to bring this up but the dreaded....
Von Dutch Originals They took a symbol of us 1% ers and MARKETED it to people who don't even know who the !@#$ Ken Howard was.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's why the marketers have no need to be concerned about us as a group. We didn't buy the Von Dutch Originals because we saw it as an overpriced ripoff of Ken Howard's legacy and stayed away from it. So they 'marketed' it as exclusive and trendy so now every cashed up Tom, Dick and Bwooce is wearing it.

[ QUOTE ]
Now they are so sucesfull at it they are opening up stores at the highest rent areas in the nation. Damn, even abelugo's parody of von drunk T-shirt is already being copied and sold on venice beach as we sit here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure I get your point here. Mine being that, I agree and you're confiring what I said about them not needing us or even know they are missing us, coz they've got a whole bunch of cashed up yuppie buyers who think the stuff is cool and makes them stand out from the ordinary crowd.

[ QUOTE ]
Just look at our HAMB calender, how many of you bought it because the proceeds will go back into the HAMB, or how many of you bought it because it was a kick ass calender?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't use a calendar, I have a PDA and computerised diary. Did it really make a difference that I didn't order a H.A.M.B. Calendar? I don't know for sure, but I'd suggest most bought it to support the H.A.M.B. which would be my only reason to buy one.

[ QUOTE ]
Either way we spent money and fast, the intial run is all but sold out!

[/ QUOTE ]

No denying that, but answer my previous question. Did everybody buy one? Based loosley on the numbers I'm thinking that's only around 12% penetration into the membership. Do you know exactly who didn't buy and why? If it was remarketed directly at the checquebook rodders, would they all buy one? Based on 12% that's 240,000 potential sales in the outside world.

[ QUOTE ]
All it takes is for some lurker or member to come up with a product we want. Then advertise is a mainstream magazine and that in turn will shift the focus a little to a magazines content. let me give you a example: lets say someone directs a product to the HAMB members for 50 bucks and lets say its a really good product that 500 people want ( I'm using the # of calenders for this one.) That puts $25,000 in his product gross. Now lets say he advertises in a well known hot rod magazine he can easily triple that first number making it $100,000 bucks in his pocket. On one item! But only if the magazine readership turns toward articles encompass we want to read. So presure it put on the magazine. Change then happens.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a few other issues need to be considered here. Starting with economic production volumes. With many items, due to tooling and production requirements, there's an economic upper limit. So, let's say there's a potential market for 25,000 Calendars based on the reach of advertising in mainstream mags. However, the tooling is only good for 24,000 units before it needs to be replaced. Thus it becomes most economical to make only 24,000 units. The fact that there won't be enough to meet demand is a good thing. It means that the item can be priced at a premium and there's no need to bother about the small group of potential buyers on the H.A.M.B. because there's only 500 of them which still leaves us 500 units short of meeting the mainstream demand. So again we become insignificant in the overall scheme of things.

[ QUOTE ]
We all want in one way or another to return to a simpler time. That is very marketable.

[/ QUOTE ]

The sad fact remains, that one way or the other we are actually going to get screwed by big business and there's buggerall we can do about it.

[ QUOTE ]
H.A.M.B. the journal of TRADITIONAL hot rodding and customs. This has nothing to do with Ryan or what he created. It is not in his control. But a BYPRODUCT of what we have become. The only way to avoid this would be to kill the hamb. But I think we are even to big for that to happen. Even if Ryan pulled the plug, The HAMB would resurface on some yahoo message board or its equal. it wouldn't be as good but it would be there.
As long as someone wants to build a hot rod. The HAMB will survive.

[/ QUOTE ]

Therein is the good part of all this! What we have here is more than we might think and possibly not too far removed from your original 'idea'. Ryan has actually created a micro economy. Think about it. A bunch of hot rodders all needing the same stuff and all coming from different walks of life with different skills and abilities. We no longer even need the mainstream ecnomy as we can barter within the group for work or parts and in turn our own little economy flourishes without the need for us to become involved in somebody else's politics or marketing war.

Of course if we do need to step up and fight the bastards, count me in!

[ QUOTE ]
WHO IS JOHN GALT?

[/ QUOTE ]

WHO CARES?

[Rocky]

Well, whoever John Galt is, we have a street named after him here in Omaha....and as far as boycotting Speedy Bill for copying and selling Vern's part?
No........
If there have been any copyright laws broken, Vern should take his case to the courts. If not, maybe Vern shoulda gone through legal channels to protect his "invention". If he had, Speedy Bill couldn't touch it. Copying and improving a product [even if it's just the price of said product] is just a part of capitalism and it's capitalism that built the financial backbone of our society.
There are already protective safeguards in place and are effective is used....

[flt-blk]

[ QUOTE ]
Politics are gay.

I like driving Hot Rods and "Breaking" stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with Bob on this one.
TZ

[beatnik]

I have to agree with Deyomatic, The HAMB is definately a powerful force, because there are as many people on here.

Any buisness or service that has to deal with HAMBers is going to be be in for a real suprise, if there product sucks, service sucks or any other bull shit happens. A lot of people are going to find out about it, and that's about as political as I think the HAMB should ever get.

[Fastsporty]

Carps, You have to be a lawyer. Only lawyers like to tear apart other people's statements piece by piece and you did that twice. Lawyers like to do that to distract from the whole meaning of a article or statement. Which I have to comend you, you did rather well. It is very well that you play the devils advocate as is needed, but some people may not get that little game.

WHO IS JOHN GALT?

You know who he is and you know I'm right. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[fab32]

So Fastsporty, is this what you want the HAMB to become? A merchandising entity? Let me see, how about VonHAMB Rockabilly, Tatoo, Greasy Shit that no one else wants Origionals. The product line could include trim with pealed chrome, cracked and frozen flatheads, and those elusive 3 day old mint E&J headlights.
If you take one step down that road the HAMB is history, and I REPEAT no mainstream companies are going to change ANY policy they have as a result of a couple of hundred disgruntled hot rodders who account for less than 1% of their sales. Thats taking into account there would actually be 200 HAMBr's who would boycot one particular business. THEY DON'T NEED US!!!!!!!
For every set of finned aluminum heads Edelbrock sells they sell 10,000 intakes for SBC's. In todays market volume sales will beat specialty items every time.

Frank

[burndup]

HEY GUYS!

I invented this really great way to make drop axles outta shitty stockers, ya wanna buy my plans? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif








Ok, I am SO kidding....

[brewsir]

I remember a couple of times where a HAMBER was having a problem with a business (damn I wish my memory was better...then I could get more specific) and Ryan contacted those businesses and simple let them know who he was and represented....and the problems got solved I think one was a Heidt's crossmember.

Somebody pays attention....

When the time comes that we need to stand up and fight the BS Count me in !!!!

[Carps]

[ QUOTE ]
Carps, You have to be a lawyer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry to disssapoint, but I'm just a guy who works in the car making biz. For the most part I have little but contempt for the law and the stupid legals systems that control our freedom and lives.

[ QUOTE ]
Only lawyers like to tear apart other people's statements piece by piece and you did that twice. Lawyers like to do that to distract from the whole meaning of a article or statement.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry again to dissapoint but us engineers are taught to do that so we understand all the ramifications and potential flaws or problems with our designs etc.

[ QUOTE ]
Which I have to comend you, you did rather well. It is very well that you play the devils advocate as is needed, but some people may not get that little game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not playing any games, just trying to help make sure we all understand what we are discussing here. And not trying to offend anyone either , although that's always difficult when we discuss things on line like this.

[ QUOTE ]
WHO IS JOHN GALT? You know who he is and you know I'm right. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but I figure he's somebody out of American History. I do know who Ralph Nader is, but to be frank I've not heard of John Galt until now. Or if I have, I figure I must have considered whatever he did must have been so insignificant (in my mind) that I simply ignored the lesson or forgot it after it was no longer important to remember it. I'd be pleased if you could enlighten me.

[Carps]

[ QUOTE ]
I remember a couple of times where a HAMBER was having a problem with a business (damn I wish my memory was better...then I could get more specific) and Ryan contacted those businesses and simple let them know who he was and represented....and the problems got solved I think one was a Heidt's crossmember.

[/ QUOTE ]

I too remeber that one and wasn't the way Ryan helped resolve the issue much better than what could have turned into one heluva monsterous and expensive shitfight?

Also I think on that score we should give Gary Heidt some credit for his part in quickly responding to the problem, regardless of what pressure was bought to bear. He could still have fought it and likey may have won had it gone to arbitration.


[ QUOTE ]
When the time comes that we need to stand up and fight the BS Count me in !!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Me too! But that's a whole different issue to advocating becoming a political entity in order to get what we want and be damned to the majority, who want something else.

Maybe I've interpreted wrongly what being a political force means.

[Sam F.]

the HAMB is for hot rods and customs,done up tradtionally,

[av8]

Rocky -- Your defense of Speedy Bill ripping off Vern as being a righteous smart-business move really puzzles me. As you see it, Vern's a dummy for not spending thousands of dollars to patent or copyright a simple device that might generate a couple of thousand dollars in sales each year. And Speedy Bill is a smart businessman for stealing Vern's product and having it manufactured in Taiwain to make a few extra bucks on each sale and eliminate Vern from the equation. Is that about right?

FWIW, I've heard from several folks who've purchased Speedy Bill's new low-cost drum retaianers, saying that they don't fit. Taiwanese knockoffs not fitting?! Scandalous!

I'm surprised and disappointed that you can't see the ethiical failure in this situation. For all that, I hope we can deal with this as a disagreement on principal and remain friends.

Your pal,

Mike

[FWilliams]

any body build anything cool lately?, whats going on in those garages out there?

i am back out to the shop, later

RACEFAB

[choprods]

Listen ALL!I am not the sharpest tool in the drawer-but I think Fastsporty was just making an observation- not a call to revolution.[lets go into the little Hamb Powder room ]and freshen up[so we wont look silly] http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Missing Link]

If the manufac....oh never mind. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

[Ryan]

I don't want to get too far into this for varying reasons, but the HAMB can be anything it wants to be because of the incredible membership we have. Who cares about the politics of all that? What little pressure we put on the industry (Heidts, Coker Tires, etc...) is done very delicately and with a shit pot full of grace. This place is NOT about money... I could get into some financials here and really prove my case, but don't wanna. This place is about people.

Now, all that said and with great concern about sounding like an egomaniac - I will say that the HAMB could be much larger if I wanted it to be. I can say with 100% certainty that if I wanted to take this market from the print magazine industry I could do it within 18 months. And when I say take over, I mean I could drop each of the top dog's revenue by over 70% in as little as a year. I work in some very strong and compitent markets every day and, quite frankly, the recreational vehicle publishing industry is not a smart or agile one. It's just sitting there... t-ed up... waiting to be smashed by anyone with some creative ideas...

[Fastsporty]

Ryan "Galt" Cochran http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[av8]

Ryan -- Think about some of the ideas we've kicked around with regard to a viable e-mag. If you want to pursue it I'm game. I have time, plus I now have a comfortable income so don't need to place a burden on the e-mag during its lean, growing times.

Something to think about . . . .

Mike

[warpigg]

[ QUOTE ]
I work in some very strong and compitent markets every day and, quite frankly, the recreational vehicle publishing industry is not a smart or agile one. It's just sitting there... t-ed up... waiting to be smashed by anyone with some creative ideas...

[/ QUOTE ]

"oshkosh monthly"?

[Phil1934]

I have to agree. It's definitely one hobby where there are no spectators without Walter Mitty ambitions. A magazine that touted itself as dedicated to the serious car crafter would corner the market. If you want people to join a club, make it exclusive. You are talking cars and not Winnebagos aren't you?

[Skate Fink]

..........all I know is that I am an uninvited guest here. I have made a lot of friends, learned a lot, been entertained (and pissed off a few times). RYAN is the "keeper of the flame." Whatever direction he takes the HAMB, I fully support. I owe all of you so much, this is the least I could do.
It seems as though the HAMB's voice HAS been heard. Along with that visibility comes responsibility. We DO have the ability to be an influance......let's strive to be a positive one........ http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[burndup]

We should CRUSH them!

Teach them a lesson! Retain their competant staff and dispatch the others...

Subvert the dominant paradigm...

Create a NEW WORLD RECREATIONAL VEHICLE ORDER!

...and get rich in the process.

Lemme rephrase that, Can I get rich too, please? I'd make a terrific Propaganda Minister(tm)!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

(PS, If Ayn Rand is still alive, she needs to be beaten about the head with a 2x4)

[Scotch]

I suggest we look at the bigger picture. The HAMB represents an eclectic group of traditionalists who are certainly more "hands-on" than the majority.

In the big picture, hot rodding, hot rodders, and hot rods are all still "quirky hobbies" to the vast majority of America, and rodding is (by and large - no offense to our overseas pals) an American thing.

Rodders have a voice in Washington, it's called SEMA, and it works for us. We should support them wholeheartedly, as they're the ones keeping an eye on legislation and making sure no stupid laws get passed to make our passion illegal. When you consider what it is they do, it's quite incredible.

I'll get back to the HAMB in a sec, but go with me on this for a minute.

To sell a new car in the USA, a manufacturer must go through an insane amount of safety and emissions tests. Not so for hot rodders.

To sell a used car in many states, the car must pass either a visual safety inspection or an emissions test. Not so for hot rods.

You cannot drive your new 100 hp Hyundai without wearing a seatbelt, even though the car has crumple-zone engineering, air bags, energy-absorbing bumpers, etc. If you want to hop in your '23 T with the 700-horse big block, no bumpers, no fenders, and no seat belts, go right ahead. That's fine.

Thanks to SEMA. Because of SEMA we can still build ratty rods and primered kustoms the way we want to, and they're not illegal. You can say it's because of "nostalgia" if you'd like, but it's not. It's because of money.

The hot rodding industry cranks over 7.3 billion into the economy every year, and that doesn't even estimate the money generated and moved due to sales of cars. That's just parts. SEMA is a political force because the money cannot be ignored.

Okay, so, back the HAMB. As a group of do-it-ourselvers who don't buy a ton of parts, there's not going to be much "influence" here. With regard to using the HAMB to strongarm manufacturers, we'd be better served organizing "group buys" of parts we'd all like, and developing a positive working relationship with the better parts makers out there.

Do you want the HAMB to be known as "that group of greasers who blacklists guys they don't agree with", or "that group of greasers who has their shit together and orders in bulk to save their members a few coins"

Support SEMA. Organize group buys to establish the HAMB as a positive force within the industry. Sell cool calendars with HAMB rides. Always be nice to everyone when wearing HAMB gear.

If you'd like to see the HAMB gain credibility, this is a good way.

Scotch~!

[saltflataddict]

all I have to say is - Who on here has an income like Jay Leno?? Because if you do you need to be spreading the wealth. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

no seriously are some of you millionaires? cause that nuts..

[delaware george]

i'm with bobbleed http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Jester]

Regardless of what the H.A.M.B. could or could not do it remains a fact that although there are a few people here who hate one another it still seems to be a place where one can go to seek help and to help people who share much the same interest. Why is it that it can be that 4300 + people can get along enough to make something like this posssible, because if I don't like what I read I just go away and come back later and find another topic that interest me. I have learned a great deal from the people here not the least of the things is too know when to just "let it go". The whole world should be so lucky to learn these leasons. Long live the H.A.M.B. Meanwhile back at the Ranch lets have some more tech post.