Is R&C killing Young Guns? [Archive]

Scribe

12-24-2003, 08:20 PM

Well, I didn't want to take up space with an O/T post or air my dirty laundry, but since someone asked, here's the scoop.

Rod & Custom magazine is undergoing major turmoil right now. Location changes, management changes, lots and lots of chiefs who all have ideas about how to run the tribe, but never remember to tell the indians. Young Guns was really starting to take off, membership is now well into the hundreds, and I do believe my column was generating more mail than anything in the mag's recent past. Unfortunately, the suits decided that the ad-to-editorial ratio wasn't quite high enough, so they killed some pages, including the Young Guns package (my column) and reduced it down to a half-page shadow of what it once was. You can't imagine how many young guys I had coming up to me at shows, thanking me for representing a different perspective (not just young people, but all people into traditional rods and customs) in the mainstream magazine world. It breaks my heart that just as this program was taking off, fostering good will amongst all age groups in this hobby of ours, the powers-that-be decided it wasn't "cost effective" and killed it, WHILE I WAS AWAY ON VACATION NO LESS, so I didn't even have a chance to defend my baby. To make matters worse, I had just received the amazing artwork done by our very own Brush (Norwell) for the YG t-shirts and plaques, which will now never see the light of day.

All of this combined with some location/commute issues have contributed to my decision to leave Rod & Custom Magazine. I had a great time while on board, got to meet some excellent people, see some awesome cars, and really dive head-first into what I believe is the last true bastion of American freedom and spirit... the world of hot rodding.

Please don't allow this post to turn into a tirade against the mainstream mags or a promotion for all of the "other" mags out there. I will continue to read R&C just as I did for years before scoring a spot on the staff. The guys I leave behind are all excellent and dedicated members of the rodding community, and I wish them well with their endeavors. It is incredibly rare to find one person who knows so much about so many things car-related, and I leave behind not one but three such men. I've learned from all of them, and greatly appreciate my time spent at such a legendary title. Anyone who has followed R&C for more than a few years knows that the magazine has always been the red headed stepchild of every company it has been a part of, which is probably why its been killed so many times.

For those of you who supported me and the Young Guns program, I THANK YOU. When we first came up with the concept I put the word out on the HAMB and memberships flew in... more so than from any other source. You guys really stood behind the club, and that is a true testament to your dedication and enthusiasm. I will continue to pick Young Guns winners for the next few months, and after the year is up I hope that the staff will continue to promote the program. It really is beneficial.

Sorry to take up your time and bandwidth with my little rant, but hopefully this will shed some light on the subject. Its unfortunate that I wasn't given a final column to let everyone know what happened. As a little bonus I'll attach a lo-res version of the R&C artwork that was supposed to go on the shirts... I think you'll find it as bitchin' as I did.

See ya down the road (and on the HAMB)...

Dan

P.S.
DrJ, as much as I'd like to agree with your little rant against corporate America, I think you'll find that the entire R&C website, including the archives, is free. No credit card numbers needed or wanted. The mags try to send readers to the sites because bandwidth on a server is much cheaper and more plentiful than printed pages in a magazine.

mikes51

12-24-2003, 08:33 PM

Thanks for the inside scoop. I was noticing a pattern here.
Ganahl had boosted the popularity of the mag with some great content. It seems when a mag reaches a high point in it's rejuvenated readership, the focus then changes to "bolt on" articles which mesh nicely with advertising.

It sounds like it is happenning again. I'm not doing any mag bashing, just seems like a normal cycle of magazine business.

DrJ

12-24-2003, 08:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]

...
P.S.
DrJ, as much as I'd like to agree with your little rant against corporate America, I think you'll find that the entire R&C website, including the archives, is free. No credit card numbers needed or wanted. The mags try to send readers to the sites because bandwidth on a server is much cheaper and more plentiful than printed pages in a magazine.

[/ QUOTE ]

My mistake, (currently anyway) Seems in the past I tried to read something on a car magazine site and had to "register" to view anything. Guess it wasn't R & C.
But the day may be coming.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Ayers Garage

12-24-2003, 09:01 PM

I talked with Pat Ganahl for several hours at the KKOA 20th Aniv Spectacular in Whichita a few years ago. He told me lots of stories just like Scribe just did about the behind the scenes of magazine industry. It's got to be an insecure feeling working for a mag. Every time the wind changes direction, a new crew comes in and cleans house of the old crew.

Seems like Baskerville was the only guy that stayed put in the business for very long. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

I was happy to read in the editorial of the newest Rodder's Journal that Ganahl is back on staff there. I think he has always provided a little soul to whatever publication he writes for.

Tinbender

12-24-2003, 09:03 PM

Scribe, I'm very sorry to hear this. I think Young Guns was one of the best ideas I've ever seen in a mag. Good luck with your future endevors. I have no doubt you'll do well. FWIW I think R&C is making a mistake letting you get away.

Sam F.

12-24-2003, 09:09 PM

Dan,i know ive told you before,but it was really an awesome feeling for me to be selected as a young gun of the month.too badd all this stuffs going on now,it was one of the cool things i looked forward to reading each month since it was first started. it was really cool to see that the big mags were doing something for us young guys. and all the sponsors helping out too. i really hate to see that your YG column is gone and now theyve cut the page in half.

anyways,hate to hear your leaving,cuz your columns and features are the ones i really enjoy reading.

well,best of luck in the future!

sammy furlong

Tony

12-24-2003, 09:14 PM

Scribe,
I'm sorry to hear this too. When word got out about the 'club', i thought is was a great idea..still do.
I even sent in the form myself.

I looked forward to seeing what other 'young guys' were building, and i also enjoyed reading your editorials.

It's also too bad about your leaving, however, you must do what you feel is right for you. end of story.

Good luck man.

Rat..
"young gun #11" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

PS, that shirt woulda been killer!!!! dammit!

Bass

12-24-2003, 09:22 PM

Butt Reynolds took the words right out of my mouth.

Thanks for the hard work you put into a great idea, Dan. Sometimes the big guys just don't know what's best for them. I mean...Who exactly do they think is going to buy their mag after the older hot-rodders among us are gone? The young guys that they are basically pissing on? Sorry, I don't want to go off on a rant.

Anyway, thanks Dan.

-Brian Bass

'Young Gun #22jr' http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

flamedabone

12-24-2003, 09:39 PM

Scribe. It takes a set of nuts to walk out on a paying gig like that. Good luck to you. Maybe TRJ needs some help....

As for the T-shirts. Those are too cool to never see the light of day. Is there ANYTHING we could do to score one? Duct tape over the R&C logo if nessessary...?

And the Young Guns thing..It's unfortunate that the powers that be don't realize that young guys buy parts too. As the "old guys" die off, who do you think is gonna still be building cars and buying parts? To me, that sounds like TRYING not to get new customers.

I would think R&C would be JUMPING at the oppertunity to present a Magnum Axle, Speedway or Coker Tire sponsered Young Guns article.

I'm glad I'm not in the magazine biz... -Abone.

cheaterslick

12-24-2003, 09:47 PM

I'll go off on a fuckn rant! I'm sick of this shit! What is wrong with people? Why won't those management fuck-faces realize that young guys probibly buy more mags than the gold-chainers 'cause they don't have the cash for their dream car yet? Man R&C used to REALLY have their thumb on the pulse, showing new ideas and top-notch craftsmanship in every issue. After the big "re-invention" of R&C, things were boss! I used to buy every issue. Now it's more and more billet dog shit I just have to flip past before I puke. That handbuilt car in the last installment looked awesome, and look at the attention it got...I was lookin for the rest! Needless to say I've bought fewer and fewer issues...

Ryan

12-24-2003, 10:02 PM

Scribe, you are a real pro man. I really respect your response to this post and your vision for doing what you did with RnC. I've heard some of the politics dealing with the HAMB and Young Guns as well as RnC in general and I think you represented that magazine better than any of the suits could have.

I have full confidence that you will have no problems moving on and will have nothing but success in whatever it is you choose to do next. Good Luck homie... AND please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

100mphwheelspinner

12-24-2003, 10:04 PM

The reason that rod and custom is cuting down the size of the young guns feature is that that the young guns cars dont have enough fake shit on them. fake blower?

fab32

12-24-2003, 10:08 PM

To keep this short I'll just add an AMEN to what has already been said. To me its quite obvious where managements head is in this decision and its where you don't see sushine or get oxygen so your brain will function.

Frank

Hackerbilt

12-24-2003, 10:12 PM

Man....that sucks.
The mag has been great for the most part and I've been buying every issue as it came to the rack.
I think you guys were really having a positive influence...geez, you were writing most of the articles yourself anyway!
BEST luck to you in your future job, Dan. Sorry to see you leaving.
Young Guns was a great idea!
Bill

chromedRAT

12-24-2003, 10:17 PM

sad to see young guns going. i really wanted to be under that flag when the pontiac is done, looks like i'll miss out. and i really hate to see you go, scribe. i hate that it is going this way. i look at rod and custom from 2000, 2001, they're almost as thick as streetrodder and chock full of info, this new issue is as thin as i have ever seen one. you need people to buy magazines to be successful, and they always offer the dirt-cheap subscriptions, i'd gladly pay alot more for a subscription to a boss magazine. i'm not sure that i'll resubscribe, dropping young guns is a small small part of that, but if it gets any thinner, it'd be called a pamphlet. i really really hate to see it, rod and custom spoke to me when i first started reading it. man, i'm bummed the fuck out.

chromedRAT

12-24-2003, 10:28 PM

is theres ome way we could politely, yet meaningfully make our feelings known to the pwoers that be at R&C? i'm not talkin about getting out of line, i'd just like to get some crap off my chest about all this. anybody know?

Unkl Ian

12-24-2003, 11:01 PM

I think the word "Management" is Latin for
"Over paid Dumb Fucks that take all the credit for other peoples hard work when things are going well,
who can't do the job themselves but know how to put up road blocks in front of those that do,
who know 1001 ways to alienate their long term customers and staff,
who add no value to the organization beyond their shallow personalities,
who change things just for the sake of change without understanding what sort of effect it will have,
and don't mind pulling the rug out from under some hard working slob when he's are not watching."

If you meet all 6 of these criteria,and don't mind wearing a white shirt and tie,you too can be a Mindless Management Weasel.

The money I was going to spend on R&C will go to support the HAMB.
I hope Jeff Norwell got paid for his submission.

Tman

12-24-2003, 11:32 PM

Sorry to see you go Dan. I hope to red/see your influence agian in another magazine. Maybe some day the suits will understand that letting someone and their base grow with the magazine is a good thing? I dunno, you think the following Ganahal and Baskerville built would be proof?! Wankers, every last beancounter! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

flyin'eye

12-25-2003, 12:09 AM

Thanks for the response,Dan. I wasn't trying to put you in an uncomfortable situation, I figured you were more torn up about this than anyone. It's just frustrating to see a good idea die an untimely death. Good luck to you, Thanks for trying to make R&C cooler than it actually is.......Young Gun #7

whodaky

12-25-2003, 12:12 AM

All these so-called management types are usually just to far removed from the real world. In this case the people who buy the magazines. Wouldn't surprize me if 'the so-called management' even read the magazine. They are always just interested in the bottom line. Max profit. From my point of view a magazine that caters to all the readership will gnerate max profit. I always like Ed Roth's business philosophy. Sell all day at a lesser price, rather than hang out all day for one sale at a big price. The same is true for profits in anything. If you offer a quality product more people will buy, don't offer that quality and less people buy. In this case the Young Gun feature is a big part of R&C that most of us see as being a big part of the quality product

purple

12-25-2003, 12:18 AM

<font color="purple"> You'll be fine as long as you don't drive all night to SLC, then send pics of your manhood to a female HAMBer. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif </font>

59BuickWagon

12-25-2003, 01:44 AM

That's a real bummer Dan (well maybe not for you because you're walking away on the high road with your head held high.) It was nice dealing with you and I'm sure our paths will cross down the rod as long as you don't get into boats or guns or planes or.......................

Dennis

kustombuilder

12-25-2003, 02:06 AM

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! say it ain't so Danny, say it ain't so. you can't do this to me. my whole goal was to get my model A done before i turn 30 (this August) so that i can be featured in the Young Guns column. RnC has been my FAVORITE mag for quite a while now and the Young Guns segment was allways the FIRST thing i flipped to. that and the "dream rod of the month" to see if JEEM had anything new in there. this truely saddens me and angers me all at once. i dont want you to go and i don't want to see Young Guns go either. this [expletive] SUCKS! i met you in Indy last winter Dan and we talked about my model A and Denny Lesky's RPU (the one Mutant Art did the rendering of) and i was excited to have YOU do the feature on them both when they are done. i thought you were a great guy. i could be wrong it was just one meeting http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif, BUT SERIOUSLY. i think they are making a HUGE mistake. it seems sometimes the suits get so distracted by the bottom line they loose sight of what REALLY matters to the core of the readership which in the long run will effect the bottom line and therefore should NOT be ignored. i realize that it is a business and it is only there to make money but if it starts to suck i will let my subscription go just i have Hot Rod magazine and many others when they started to suck (for lack of a better term).

DAMN I'M MAD!!!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Mike Brimm

Flat Ernie

12-25-2003, 02:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
You can't read the HAMB and take a shit...well, most of us can't, anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

I got the solutin for this (not implemented yet!): Set up a wireless LAN in your home & use a laptop!

Seriously - glad to hear that folks still have principles & are willing to stand up for them even if it costs something in the short term. In the long term, you'll be able to look at yourself in the mirror without any regrets.

Keep the faith.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

Nick32vic

12-25-2003, 03:23 AM

This is horrible. I dont know about any other young guns but as a 16 year old building a car it feels so freakin awesome just to hear someone say, "man, sounds like your building a cool car" or "That things gonna be wicked!" I think the young guns section was just about the same except longer and in print form. I was kind of even hoping to be in that section some day. I guess i wont now. I definately think its time to start getting TRJ instead of R&C. Good bye R&C.

Nick Giacalone

Wicked Death Chop

12-25-2003, 05:49 AM

man, young guns was the last thing really keeping me into r and c. what a bummer! although i will say that the mag has been going down hill since frieburger left!

bring back frieburger!

tommy

12-25-2003, 08:03 AM

It's amazing how short sighted suits can be. Instead of building future loyal paying customers, they choose to alienate the new parts buyers that their advertizers will be clamoring for.

Rod & Custom got me hooked almost 50 years ago. Looks like they have given up fishing.

JimC

12-25-2003, 08:11 AM

What a Christms present.
Whilst getting my first cup of coffee, I turn on the only site on the net.

And I read this post first.

I can not add anything to the sentiments expressed here, but can offer a suggestion.

Maybe it is time for a mass mailing to primedia of all the comments written here.

What about it Dan? Think it would help?

I like Rand C. as well as CR, but have noticed a downturn.

I'll stay with both for a while, just to see how far they go.

Jim

John B

12-25-2003, 09:47 AM

No use ranting about it here.-Thats like preaching to the choir.

No use bitching to the guys who work for R&C.-They don't have the say so they should.

No use complaining to the suits in charge- They aren't listening to us mere mortals.

You need to get to the core. The advertising money. I think a well crafted letter to the advertisers explaining the customers distain for anyone who would support the managements disregard for the reader and everyday rodder.
A well placed thought that it would be better to purchase items from someone who wasn't sponsoring such disregard for the hobby is in order. If they get such emails and letters, it's possible that they might say something to the suits at R&C. Of course it would have to be from more then just a couple people. It would have to be a large quantity of people to carry any weight.

Roothawg

12-25-2003, 10:40 AM

Dan, good luck on your endeavors. I enjoyed your writing and it was nice to see some of the hamb guys actually get press.

I have friends in the TV and radio industry and it too looks glamourous on the outside but they are constsntly worrying about job security.

Hopefully you can land a good job at a reputable company that appreciates your skill.

Thanks for all you have done.

Root

kustombuilder

12-25-2003, 01:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I can not add anything to the sentiments expressed here, but can offer a suggestion.

Maybe it is time for a mass mailing to primedia of all the comments written here.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't know if it will help either but damn it i'm gonna start sending a letter a week telling them to do WHATEVER it takes to keep Danno happy and bring back YG. i think it's a fabulous idea.

Mike

Harrison

12-25-2003, 03:21 PM

Is it just me or has R&C started to look a lot like HRM (at least the HRM I stopped reading a few years ago) with nothing but endless pages of Americruise/Power Tour coverage - in every damn issue? Really, it is the same dozen cars just stopping at a different advertiser's shop each day.

I'm over R&C. Young Guns was the only reason I bought it. From now on give me the HAMB, Rodder's Digest, and TRJ and I'll be fine.

JH

Django

12-25-2003, 03:38 PM

Dan, I'm sorry to hear that. Good luck wherever you end up. I always enjoyed the Young Guns stuff. I'm a couple years past 30, but I'm still immersed in that "younger rodder" crowd comparitively speaking. Interesting idea with writing the advertisers. I will try to write to the mag itself too.

FWilliams

12-25-2003, 05:14 PM

you need ANYTHING, get a hold of me. you leaving will be an incredible loss to that mag.

Design Guy

12-25-2003, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]

You listening Primedia?

[/ QUOTE ]

Trust an insider, unless you're an advertiser, they're not listening. I'm about 95% sure that the reason they made Young Guns so small this month was because ad dollars are down and they had to trim the book to make it fit next to a 1/2 page ad. I can almost guarantee that this is the reason.

Design Guy

12-25-2003, 08:40 PM

As I continue to run through this thread, I'm a little upset at some of the responses. Some others are right on the mark.
First, the reason they have that page that talks about what is one the web is because it drives you to the site, where the magazine probably derives a decent amount of revenue from online ad dollars. If they didn't post the page, then you may not got. It's also there in case you want to check some of the stories on the web without having to buy the mag. Lastly, some of the stuff on the web is exclusive to the web, namely more pics and some content.

For the person that said he would rather spend his R&C money to help out the HAMB, that may make Ryan really happy, but it's not going to improve the situation and R&C. If you all decide to come away from R&C instead of speaking your mind to the folks in charge at Primedia, then the mag is doomed, and we'll all have one less outlet to go to for our fix.

<font color="red"> If you're really serious about getting in touch with the people that count at the company, you can email any of the people out of the Credits box just by their first and last names. For instance, my email at the company is Dave.Conrey@Primedia.com. The art director for R&C is Dan.Silvario@primedia.com. If you want to make a dent, email the Publishers and the Editor. The rest you can figure out on your own.</font>

Good Luck

flyin'eye

12-25-2003, 10:33 PM

Thanks for the info about the email addresses. I think I'll send a few now......

Deyomatic

12-26-2003, 12:37 AM

What I meant was, if you are standing in a store reading the magazine and you don't find it interesting enough to purchase, you probably won't bother going to the website. If you never intended to buy it to begin with, you would probably have assumed that the magazine, like EVERY BUSINESS in the world now, has a website that you can look at, and you would have already seen it. If you bought it already, that page always shows the stuff that you already paid for. I may be wrong, but I don't ever remember seeing any "website exclusive" ads on that page.
Lastly, if you have to cut a page to put more ads in to make money, do you really think that sales are going to stay high if you cut an interesting column, but leave their shitty ad in the back of the page? Let's look at that in the long run.
They ditch the cool articles in favor of fluffy ads. Readers are upset that there are too many ads and not enough tech. Readers stop buying the mag. Advertisers back out because circulation sucks. Now, they are worse off than when they started.

Tony

12-26-2003, 12:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
(Flamedabone)
As for the T-shirts. Those are too cool to never see the light of day. Is there ANYTHING we could do to score one? Duct tape over the R&C logo if nessessary...?

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, that art work is way too cool not to make use of...
It's too bad we can't use the design for the "young gun's" that participated in the club, but not in association with R/C.
I'm sure there would be some 'rule' that would be broken if it was tried....

Man, this stinks! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

Rat...

Scribe

12-26-2003, 03:19 AM

Thanks everyone for all of your support. Dave, I got yout PM and it means alot, as do your comments Ryan. I guess my youthful enthusiasm that so endeared me to the Young Guns concept in the first place is what allowed me to think that the powers that be were interested in making great magazines, not squeezing every last dime out of every page.

Dave's suggestions are VERY valid... check out the names at the top of the staff box (publisher, editor, etc.) and jet off a few emails... who knows, even if it doesn't bring the old YG format back, at least they'll know what they lost.

Thanks again to you all, and have a happy new year!

Dan

Phil1934

12-26-2003, 11:11 AM

With old titles going for $10 a year and extra copies being sent to auto parts, and ads disguised as features, it's no wonder they are running scared. Yet the upstart Buckaroo is selling Street Rod Builder for $35 a year. If a double sawbuck stands in the way of a subcription, what's the odds the average reader will be spending the sums required for the advertiser's product? We say in construction don't cut your price regardless of the current market or you'll dig a hole that's hard to climb out of. I don't know the magazine industry, if sales numbers get you a spot on certain market's shelves, but I would think charge a little more so you can maintain your editorial integrity. If we are a bellweather of th eindustry here on the HAMB, what generates interest, rodding scene, No. glossy shots, No. tech, hell, yea. And the doers are also the buyers.

buzzard

12-26-2003, 12:38 PM

I think that R&C has missed the boat on this one. Young Guns and Ego Rama are the two coolest things they have going.

I will continue to subscribe, for now. It's still going to be a good magazine. But Young Guns was why I have looked forward to each issue for the last while. It's awesome to see "one of us" get recognition for home built cars. Even though I'm older than the YG's, I still feel a lot more connection with them than the other cars featured. They/we are the ones that will be subscribers for the next several decades. Our demographic of rodders is growing faster than any other.

The ad $$$ thing is weird to me. Say you don't buy a pre-made part for a 1-800-rodder store. You buy a welder, grinder, bondo and supplies to do the job, right? That stuff costs $$$. Sounds like a ad sales dept. issue to me.

rikaguilera

12-26-2003, 12:46 PM

Buzzard, you are WAY older than the Young Guns cut off age..
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
It is a shame to see it go though. My little brother was trying to get his car done for acceptance into Young Guns.

**DONOTDELETE**

12-26-2003, 01:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I think the word "Management" is Latin for
"Over paid Dumb Fucks that take all the credit for other peoples hard work when things are going well,
who can't do the job themselves but know how to put up road blocks in front of those that do,
who know 1001 ways to alienate their long term customers and staff,
who add no value to the organization beyond their shallow personalities,
who change things just for the sake of change without understanding what sort of effect it will have,
and don't mind pulling the rug out from under some hard working slob when he's are not watching."

[/ QUOTE ]

And you guys are just learning this? Seen it up close and personal myself a few years ago and I did exactly what Dan is doing. It's a REALLY tough decision because most of these jobs all now belong to one monopoly. I found out that ANYTHING you say will get back to them. It's hard because those guys are all your friends, but the big "decision makers" don't often care what you, or what you say readers want. Bottom line is advertising. I think good stories can lead to new and better advertising, but it's about "the bottom line", if it's not payin' TODAY'S bills CUT IT!
Good luck to you Dan, and to everyone else best to move on and let them make their own decisions because they will only take notice when the sales and subscription numbers SIGNIFICANTLY drop, and by then the excuse is nowhere related to what the original cause was- and by then some GENIOUS has the "fresh" idea to reinstate what was pulled in the first place. AGAIN, this is what EXACTLY happened to myself and a good friend. The two things that they felt we "ruined" the magazine with were REINTRODUCED with grand fanfare. It's the business, glad I'm not dealing with it right now.

kustomd

12-26-2003, 01:32 PM

That sucks. I was hoping to try and get my 54 in the YG column after I got it going. I've actually been busting my a&% trying to get it far enough along to send some pics in with the paper work to R&C so I could possibly get in soon. Oh well I quit subscribing along time ago when R&C SCREWED ME ON MY SUBSCRIPTION!!!!

I reordered a sub for a year then my mother ordered me a two year sub and my grandmother ordered me another two year sub on top of that. That would have been five years total already paid for and guess what they did sent me two issues and thats all I ever saw of it. But they kept all the money. My mother and I wrote letters to the company about it and they told us that some of the subscription info for our area got lost and that we were basically just screwed out of our money. And the same happened to several of my friends around here that had subs also. So now that they are killing this they can KISS my White ASS!!! Sorry for the rant but I'm still sore over them screwing me especially since that sub my grandma got me was the last christmas present she got me before she died.

I still buy it sometimes off of the news stand but only for stuff like Y&G and sometimes the tech articles that have info I need for my cars. I know I sound kinda messed up wanting to be apart of something that screwed me but I thought young guns were cool even after the fact. Scribe to bad your leaving I enjoyed reading everything you were apart of in the magazine I hope your future endeavors are more fullfilling then what R&C has done to you now.

SamIyam

12-26-2003, 02:38 PM

After meeting Dan a little over a year ago... I can say that he can, and will, be successful in any job that he decides to do in life... his enthusiasm and attitude are stronger than any misguided industry... so Dan, think about the things you did change and the people you did influence in a positive way... and forget about the things that you couldn't, nor any one else could have changed... then take those positive things on with you to your next career.
Sam.

Fraz

12-27-2003, 06:51 PM

Not enough ads? The last 24 friggin pages of the mag are nothing but ads and that's not enough?

Machinos

12-27-2003, 07:05 PM

Man, this really sucks. I can't say I'm at all surprised though. Primedia and the companies like it are really just awful. I still like R&C and will continue to read it, but it still always gets to me reading it when I can see the huge contrasts between "what the car guys wanna do" and "what the ad weasels decree".

On the one hand it's good that R&C is still going, but on the other hand, it's still going under management that doesn't have a damn clue. Primedia runs like 50 car mags, you'd think they'd have a better idea of how to operate them.

Sadly, it's probably just a matter of time until they kill off R&C to replace it with three other ultra-speciality mags, like "Deuce Ford Performance", "Tri-Five Chevy Street Beast Monthly" and "Billet Accessories Digest" or whatever. Sigh.

OGNC

12-27-2003, 07:14 PM

I found out the hard way that Primedia is the evil empire that you always hear about. The book Barbarians at the Gate is about Primedia's parent company KKR. They're f-ing evil!

**DONOTDELETE**

12-27-2003, 08:36 PM

honestly, and this will make me real popular, I think most of the young guns cars suck.

Used to be all the cool hotrods were built by kids under 30 but now you'd be hard pressed to find enough to do it once a month.

Guys, I am talking about hotrods not lowered 54 Fords. I built a bunch of them before I was 30, shit, I'm only 32 now! Big deal. Reading a write up on how some fucknut built a 55 truck just because he still has zits is lame. Get over it and move on. Rod & Custom sucks too. Fuck them.

Love you all

**DONOTDELETE**

12-27-2003, 08:49 PM

since we are on the subject anyways, since when is 30 young? I mean, guys were flying Mustangs and p-47s over fucking Germany in their 20's.
So you bolted a body to a rusty old frame and got it to run..... my hero. let's do a story on it.

Now you love me

12-27-2003, 08:54 PM

Only one good thing could come from Primedia killing Rod & Custom........Gahnal bringing it back again
Clark

SamIyam

12-27-2003, 11:00 PM

I'd bet $100 bucks that since Gooch has SOOOO much experience... and has built SOOOOOO many hot rods... he's just sore at R&C because none of them have ever been featured in their magazine...

And because he's built so many hot rods... that's why we see them all over the HAMB... how-to's, tech stuff, pics of things he's done... HAHAHAHA... NOT!

I'm guessing it's just another guy hiding behind his computer... images of a fat-ass, white trash, cigar smoking doof in a wife beater and his boxers talking to twenty somethings in a chat room come to mind...

Ain't that right... tough guy?
Sam.

**DONOTDELETE**

12-27-2003, 11:15 PM

see, that's the love.

when you did a search on me, what came up?

Design Guy

12-27-2003, 11:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Primedia runs like 50 car mags, you'd think they'd have a better idea of how to operate them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that fact that we have acquired 50 car mags, not to mention all kinds of other specialty mags, goes to show that they do know how to operate them. Remember, they're in this for a profit.

[ QUOTE ]
Sadly, it's probably just a matter of time until they kill off R&C to replace it with three other ultra-speciality mags, like "Deuce Ford Performance", "Tri-Five Chevy Street Beast Monthly" and "Billet Accessories Digest" or whatever. Sigh.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very funny, and not so far off the mark, I'm sure.

flyin'eye

12-27-2003, 11:29 PM

I think you may have missed the point of the column. I don't think it was ever about how nice the cars were, it was more about the fact that young guys were building something other than a Honda or an IROC Camaro. I did notice that most of the cars qualified more as customs than rods. Maybe that should have told R&C something about their demographic.As for 30 not being considered young, you say the cars built by guys in their late 20's weren't good enough, did you build nicer cars when you were a teenager than you do now? It takes time to develop the skills required to build the perfect car. When a young guy is trying, we all oughtta try to help, rather than pissing all over it. Primedia pissed on it...

**DONOTDELETE**

12-27-2003, 11:31 PM

Hey Design Guy, former Petersen/Primedia employee here. I Fought the same fight of defending "the business" here for the last 3 years. I thought it would be an interesting insight since I am a traditional rodder first, journalist second. But all it has gotten me is grief and most recently kicked of my beloved HAMB for a week (took much doing but I finally pissed off the man). Save your breath, these posts pop up like ants at a picnic. You can't avoid them, just find a new place to eat! I'm with ya, but one answer just seems to start another bitch session. Have fun- play with cars!

**DONOTDELETE**

12-27-2003, 11:46 PM

oh, guys. now I feel bad. I dont like to see the guy loose his place over there. We obviously have all the same friends but on page three it's fun to mix it up.

Actually, yes. the first ones, my dad was still alive and gave me thumbs down on my dumb ideas. My new cars go unchecked and suffer because of it.

Design Guy

12-27-2003, 11:58 PM

Yeah Jim, I hear ya. I wont' defend them to the death. If they're wrong, they're wrong, but I think some people make some pretty ridiculous comments about things they don't know about with no basis but their own opinions. If they're going to argue a point, at least get the facts straight.

Tony

12-28-2003, 01:40 AM

Gooch, i can kinda see your point of view here....although i don't totally agree with it.
I think it basically comes down to "younger" guy's doing their best to carry on something that was started way before you and i were even thought of( i'm 29).
I would rather see a guy building a old car that's not my personal favorite, than putting a fart can and wing on a honda civic.
Just because you or i don't like the ride dosn't mean it isn't a good thing, at least thats how i feel.
I'm drawn more toward cars like your coupe than most others, but that dosn't mean i can't appreciate a guy's effort to accomplish a goal, even if it is on a car i don't like..
I'm not bustin yer balls, i just read what you posted and this was just on my mind.
And lastly, i obviously don't know when you lost him, but i want to give my condolences on the loss of your dad.
I go to my dad for his input many time's, and not having him around is a scary thought for me.

this is just my 2 cents..probably not even worth that much.

Rat...