What is it about patina ? A question for the masses....

[Roothawg]

I was recently looking through my favorite Hop Up edition and I had to wonder what it is that drives us to want the patina?

Is it that need to have the perfect find in a barn or at least make everyone else think that?

Is it the need to make everyone that doesn't understand....want to paint our cars?

What's your reason?

[briggs&strattonChev]

the PRICE lolol

by the way, I usually LOVE patina, but some cars just cant pull it off

[KIRK!]

Personally I have tried to analyze this too. For me I think it's an artist thing. When something looks "unfinished" there is that glimmer of potential and inspiration and wonder about where it's been.

[Nads]

Personally I prefer vagina over patina. Funny how the words don't rhyme, but vagina always ends up costing a lot more.

[Roothawg]

Nads, I usually roll my eyes at 80% of your jokes, but I actually laughed outloud on that one.......

[safariknut]

I always thought "patina" was either a small Latino female or a chick from Philly.

[Big A]

I want to see some signs of history, some human contact... the signs of the struggle. The snap together billet mobiles have absolutely no soul, in my mind. Like scars, wrinkles, faded jeans and scuffed boots, patina demonstrates a life that's been lived, not watched.

Nads, if you're ever in Canadia, you might want to visit Regina. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Roothawg]

Big A, I think I like your example best......

[voneyeball]

when somethings cool, it's cool.

when somethings cool, but a little fucked up (ie; unchanged since the 50's, unrestored, not painted, rusty, take your pick and add if you want), and STILL cool, you know its really cool.

so, yeah, it kinda boils down to "when it's finished it'll be REALLY cool"... but, when its really cool, who needs REALLY cool.....

fake "patina" on the other hand, is bullshit.

fake vagina, well, we won't go there...

[mytlo56]

Just like good jeans, it takes time and a harsh beating to give a car character.

Here's one hell of an example, in my humble opinion.

PS- Does anyone know the owner of this thing?

[du$ty]

i just build p.o.s cars..i mean kars. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif or..
maybe i just need to make my car multi-color..and kinda ugly worn out and mean just like the driver. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Rocket88]

Big A hit the nail on the head!

[Unkl Ian]

In some cases it could be seem as contrarian reaction to
the high end,high dollar,smooth and shiney mainstream cookie cutter cars.
By going to the opposite extreame,it shows,and reinforces our contempt towards
the conformist majority.Consider it Anti-Fashion,in the same way Grunge,and Punk music
developed as a reaction to increasing comercialization of popular music in their time.
As the Revolutionaries are accepted,and coveted by the mainstream,they become part of the
new Establishment,which eventually leads to the next generation of Revolutionaries.


Or maybe we just like it. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Roothawg]

Unkl Ian, you make my head hurt....... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[Nads]

Seriously though, it's patina that makes me gravitate towards one handed reading material such as 'Over Fifty' and 'Menopausal Hotties' rather than 'Perfect 10.'

Gimme scars or gimme death.

Hey you know what? Mangina doesn't rhyme with patina either, it does with angina though.

[Rocket88]

I was going to mention mangina, bit it's just wrong! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Roothawg]

Here's the definition from the "Urban Dictionary".

mangina

when a guy pulls his dick and balls back between his legs (forming a basket of fruit behind him) and then putting his legs together to simulate the look of a vagina

That's one hairy mangina.



Sorry we have sank to this level.....It's Christmas Eve and we are on the computer.You are just as big a loser as me...

[voneyeball]

...so, "cool" is a general term. to me it means being able to see blood sweat and tears and a little history.

paint is like putting clothes on a super model...sorta. sure the mini skirt looks good, but dont you WANT to know if its shaved or has a stripe? or a mangina?

[johndanger]

I used to drive my 41 Buick to a local rich guy antique car show / picnic , and it would be surrounded by a bunch of super expensive , super finished 100 point show cars , and all the oldguys would surround my beat up old car with its original paint and rust. I think for some it lets them think about how they would do it if it was theres , or it seems atainable to them , because it needs work or theres still something that they could do to it .

for most car guys a big part of the fun is in looking for the missing parts and putting it all together. I kind of like seeing what has happened over the years to the car , another thing .

in the antique car world , and motorcycle and bicycle hobbies as well , original paint , even if it is a bit beat up is much more valuable than refinished.

the other side of it is that people think that you will sell it cheep and they are going to get a cheep price for it because its all beat up looking , and preety much every time I drive the car someone says " nice car , when are you going to paint it ?"

[OGNC]

That rusty roadster is owned by some guy that calls himself The Count in Las Vegas. He is kinda like their local Elvira, hosting a show that shows B-grade horror movies on a local TV station.
He also owns a shop that builds custom bikes and they have a couple of photos of their "rods" on the website. If you want to check it out, here is a link...

counts kustoms (http://www.countskustoms.com/index.html)

[Rocky]

Hahahahaha!
"Yeah, gimme a......uhhhhhhh..mmmmmm...gimme a taco, a beef burito and, uhhhh.......I'll take two patinas with extra sour cream......oh yeah! gimme two straws with that....
Respectfully submitted by another Christmas eve loser...your mileage may vary......

[Rocket88]

Yeah, it's Christmas eve and we're on our computers.
But I'm sittin' at work, at least if I were home I'd be sitting in front of the computer with a beer!

[Roothawg]

I am at home......pretty depressing huh?

[NealinCA]

[ QUOTE ]
Hahahahaha!
"Yeah, gimme a......uhhhhhhh..mmmmmm...gimme a taco, a beef burito and, uhhhh.......I'll take two patinas with extra sour cream......oh yeah! gimme two straws with that....
Respectfully submitted by another Christmas eve loser...your mileage may vary......

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought a patina was one of those things filled with candy and toys that blindfolded kids swing a stick at...

[Travis]

Kinda like us <font color="green"> baristas </font> who work at Starbucks. I thought "Why am I applying to be a Mexican whore?"

Travis

[KIRK!]

[ QUOTE ]
I thought a patina was one of those things filled with candy and toys that blindfolded kids swing a stick at...

[/ QUOTE ]

So, what you're saying is that if I beat on cars at a car show with a big stick, candy will fall out? AWESOME! I'm gonna try it! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Smokin Joe]

Patina is history and soul. There's a big difference between a car that looks like it's been there and done that and one that was put together this week out of various rusty parts to get "The look" too. Nothing like 40 year old crackled and faded decals from long gone speedshops on the glass, Pit passes from Smokers Meet 1963 under the seats on the worn carpet and a puff of smoke out the exhaust that says the old girl is due for ANOTHER overhaul... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

The best patina is the patina you remember adding to the car along the way... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[wingnutz]

[ QUOTE ]
...so, "cool" is a general term. to me it means being able to see blood sweat and tears and a little history.

[/ QUOTE ]

At the 2nd "Lone Star Round Up" a guy just found and bought a Deuce roadster that was sitting in a garage for many years. I think he paid $6,000 for it and got the multi-carbed flathead running...! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

He told me that he found "Gas Ration" tickets stuffed in the Windshield posts! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Just looking at that car told a story of blood, sweat and tears...!

I like these kind of finds and it seemed that a large crowd of people were equally interested in this raw piece of history! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Hope he doesn't polish it up and destroy it's weathered beauty...! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

With that said..., I'm leaving the office for the holidays..., "Have a Merry Christmas folks" http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Mark

[thirtytwo]

i think some of it might have to do a little with one-upsmanship it takes quite a bit more effort to make something look old and abused if it wasnt already ,its fairly easy to clean it straighten it , paint it and make it pretty ,but to put the dents in the right place rub the paint through in the proper location, it takes some skill to make it look right , and it makes it even harder for someone to have "one just like you", those of us with beaters already we became instantly in fashion with the latest trend.... maybe the LA roadster guys would let us in the gate now? WE ARE ALL BACKWARDS the patina is to traditional what the hightech billit was to streetrods maybe?

[Nads]

Yeah whilst we're on the subject of patina, I know some of you'ze is afficianados of the prurient.
I know some of you have heard of that jazz mag called 'Barely Legal' I guess they have girls in there that have that 'extra little something.' And I'm not talking about 'Chicks With Dicks' I don't go there homey!
All that's well and good, but my favorite is this hard to find grumble publication called 'Barely There' it features girls who are 'missing that certain something.' Sometimees they're missing a limb or two, sometimes it's teeth, sometimes a few brain cells, and if it's a real good issue, all three are kaput
.
Yeah man, imperfection is what I dig.

Do yerself a favor and hunt this mag down, you won't be disappointed.

[286merc]

It's TRADITIONAL, correct?

So while the gold chainers and clueless mags try and emulate, it is the style of the blue collar masses who, back in the 40-50's, put the little money they had under the hood. Or into back yard customizing.

No need for a long winded analysis.

[titus]

the reason i like patina is that it shows the scars of life, id rather look at cars in a junkyard than a carshow! i thinks it beacuse of the potential of the car or body, its neet to look at old junk!!, thats what made me build my pu, i started to locate parts to fix up the cab (the back panel is beat to shit) but changed my mind, the cab and grille are original paint but the box is brand new! the car fools alot of people which is fun cause they always ask me where that place was (it says East Side Speed Shop on the door) and i just chuckle! I guess thats why i like it, because other people do!!

[HOTRODPRIMER]

Patina = History.....plain and simple..... HRP

[Fat Hack]

I don't feel comfortable in new clothes, fancy resturants, nice neighborhoods...or shiney new cars! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

I like old stuff...old cars, old guns, old houses, old clothes, old music and old values...driving and messing with rusty old cars is just a part of that!!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Elrusto]

What is it that make this car cool?

[Nads]

I think this is 'patinariffic.'

[mikes51]

I have patina on my car and I didn't know it. A spectator was checking out my car amongst a field of high end, perfection cars. He says to me, "I like that part of your inside door panel, where the vinyl is worn through to the fabric backer, right there, next to the arm rest".

He goes on to say "that shows your car is driven alot, you can't just go out and buy that".

That was enlightening, guess I will stop trying to patch that area up every season.

[DrJ]

I think it has to do with accepting age and wrinkles instead of repaints and fussing with something that inevitably will age and fighting that process. I took the picture of the ModeL T at the last Long Beach Model T meet I went to back in the late 70s.
The "Hippy" in the middle showed up with this pile and ran it up the hill for I think the second fastest time of the day, and the only car that was faster was a Fronty dual overhead cam conversion in a track sprint car.
This was 25 years ago!
So what's so new about "patina"?
Yes he shocked the hell out of a lot of people, actually pissed off some for having the audacity to bring a pile of rusty shit like that out to a meet, but I know he had more fun than most there.
He said it was just a pile of pieces three days before the meet too.

[fab32]

Its like comparing a raw recruit with a grizzled old veteran that stormed up the beach at Normandy. Which one would command your respect?

Frank

[hatch]

I like the patina on my new bike..... leaving it "as is" will be a great cover for my increasing laziness. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Rocky]

Oh, I'll show ya's some patina....

[Nads]

So Dr. J are you the Grizzly Addams lookalike in the picture?
Hey Hatch, laziness is the embryo of enlightenment and the LA-Z Boy is the temple.
Snooze on Grasshopper.

[hatch]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[onelow48]

I think its the fact that when somthing is done or painted
its time to start something new. My truck is primer and when co-workers or people that don't know me see it they say
"what color are you going to paint it" I reply I like it just the way it is. I think it all depends on the application. I think the older it is the cooler it is. Meaning just what I say. I like the fact it fruff, people
don't ask "who did the work" they know I did. Ruff is fun.
I think painted rides are nice too. But most off them are
cookie cutter its the one with no paint that makes me realy
look. Just my thoughts! PS Mery x-mass

[buzzard]

[ QUOTE ]
when somethings cool, it's cool.

when somethings cool, but a little fucked up (ie; unchanged since the 50's, unrestored, not painted, rusty, take your pick and add if you want), and STILL cool, you know its really cool.

so, yeah, it kinda boils down to "when it's finished it'll be REALLY cool"... but, when its really cool, who needs REALLY cool.....

fake "patina" on the other hand, is bullshit.

fake vagina, well, we won't go there...

[/ QUOTE ]


This is my favorite post in a long time. Both right on and hilarious. I may steal that "when it's really cool, who needs REALLY cool" part. You should tm that, Marty.

[Morrisman]

Hey, you wouldn't strip the Mona Lisa back to canvas and whack a perfect computer generated copy on there, using modern 'health and safety' approved water based paints and a coat of thiiiick epoxy laquer, even though it would look a lot newer and a lot better, would ya????
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
That's what patina is all about: Looking original.

[Nads]

I wanna offer up two examples of cars that were ruined by restoration. One is the John Athan built Elvis' 'Loving you' roadster, the other is that Caddy powered Deuce roadster owned by Kurt McCormick. Both of those cars would have been better served by leaving them alone.
At the last Winter Park Concours was a '59 Alfa Romeo coupe that was left just as the way the owner found it in a barn. I was gushing over that car and the dude that owned it was tickled pink that someone understood what leaving an artifact well enough alone really means. Despite the fact that civilians gravitated towards the shiny and overrestored.
I used to be a dealer in mid century modern artifacts and back then I used to restore pieces and now the truth of the matter is is that untouched pieces are worth way much more.
My car isn't historically important so I don't feel too bad about fixing her up a bit, but I still hear some folks saying I shoulda left it with the blue paint and rust.

Yo hatch, didn't you do that doll photoshop of my car?

I still love it.

[hatch]

I gotta mention.....Patina without a cool canvas sucks....my 87 toyota winter beater is rusty and crusty...but visually it sucks.

[Nads]

hatch if it was a '67 Toyota 2000GT that would be cool.

[whodaky]

I look at old cars that obviously are old and have earnt that patina and think to myself, boy the stories that old car could tell. I think it is a real mark of respect to these types of patina'd cars that guys and gals are building 'new' hotrods and customs and do their best to emulate that patina'd look. It really shows how creative we can be.

[Tinbender]

If our cars really do have soul, it comes from history. Patina is proof of history.
I still can't help but think of it as a stage. I gotta rebuild, restore, improve. I don't know if I could build a car without planing to "finish it". Cool thing is, when or if you ever do finish one, the whole thing starts again. Now your part of the cars history. Your in it's soul...or maybe it's in yours.

[Greezy]

Ok Im gonna open a whole new can of worms here. I think petina is cool if it comes natuarally. If you build your car out of old parts that are petinad thats cool. My coupe has mostly new or NOS parts (i.e) shiney. And being a new build it will be finished shiney. And itll have to earn its scars.

[Patina]

My 62 Belair Wagon has a lot of Patina and most guys love it.Sun faded,door dings,little rust shows that she was used and enjoyed and still is.Lot easier to drive every day and not worry about Big $$$ paint.Kind of a custom by nature. PATINA

[Sam F.]

grezzy,thats what i was just gonna say.

i really like it if it really IS a "barn find" car
or even parts put together to look like a barn find...but when people start airbrushing rust,fake bird shit and patinad paint on a glass car or brand new brookville then that is pretty GAY in my opinion..

or ,IMHO,let me even say this,PRIMERING OVER A 'nice' original paintjob to give it that rockabilly look is just as gay!!!!!

[DrJ]

No Nads, I'm the one on the other side of the instamatic. But I have looked that hairy at times.

[RPW]

Patina can make things better, sometimes, and other times not.

Take a well built rod, lets say a 32 roadster, first built in 52: Then it had Washington blue nitrocellulose paint, black or maybe dark brown leather interior, a nice detailed chassie, a hot flathead. Stored in a dry garage since 1974 and then found, intact but very dusty in his garage a few years after he passed away 2003.
Case one: let time go... It did remain with the same owner through the years, was used a lot but well maintained. Dings and nics filled in, everything still shiney and working. Several updates since 52 but all well made, like the 283 with powerpack in 57, the ET magwheels in 64 and of course the injected 401 that replaced it 1n 1963 and came in good use when it did run at the strip in the mid 60´s, the cromed Olds rear end did work well then too. This is patina with a neat history! But you can see that did car had seen use, steering wheels well shows it, well worn leather seat shows it, the paint might show some thin spots and minor crackiing but is looks good... In my book this is "a dream" and not a thing to restore, just keeping using it and take care of it.

Then case two: The very same car. But in this case it did change hands in 1958 and after a few years the later owners that did care less about it. The 40 Ford steering wheel was changed into a "foam" cheap one in the late 60´s, the 40 dash cut away and a new one was made of wood. No more quickchange as in 52 but a 10 bolt Chevy instead installed in the late 60´s. The seat and the inside of the doors was redone in diamondtuffed vinyl, about 1965. The steel wheels changed into Cragar SS, it was in 67... A few years later new fashionable additions, some rake and murals of The Flag on the gas tank ...Then in 73 the front wheels was changed into slotmags and the early 283 did make its last breat and a already wornout 350 found a new home. 74 the owner did put it away, to be stored into a leaking barn. Interior did rot, paint did crack, a lot of rust too... 2003 a rodder found it and say he will drive it just like it is, cause it have "rodding history". If the "barn find" had that history, and for sure it have history as well as the first "case". But, well in the second case I would not think the history and the patina have added anything at all, I would rather see it redone as the first builder, in 52, did intend it to look. Or built into something else... Yes, I would not mind a single second to earase all of its "history" and build something better from it.

To build a car that looks used from the beginning? Never!
Trying to be cool will just end up being a fool...

[thirtytwo]

every time i hear a story like that it hurts? its almost as bad as the old man telling me back in the day they used to try and find 3-w 32s "cause they were stronger when they rolled over" sends chills, dont ever let them show you pictures either it'l make you cry!!!!

[19Fordy]

Yeah, Made me chuckle too.

[choprods]

When I put this together- I was shooting for some kinda paint- I found three scrapped model A's that were'nt all there...[in a pile at Brother Reggies salvage yard].... I took a peice from each and made the rear panel-them bought the bed off ebay from Utah.... it had the tailgate twisted shut with 4 layers of fence wire from the 40's [Id bet]. I sat that bed on the frame against the red rusted Missouri A parts collection-backed off and took a look- and said 'what a shame it would be to sand that perfectly matched rust down and paint this truck1" I left it as it was and for a year I drove it every where... I then sold it to a fellow in Columbus Ohio- and guess what he said when he picked it up/ He said'Im just gonna drive it like this! "he'd had two others in the "buiding stages "for 20 years and never got to drive either one so this was exactly what he wanted-"A car he can drive"!

[Deuce Roadster]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif


My old 40 HAD PATINA...... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

It needed glass, running boards, paint and a bunch more...

http://photo.starblvd.net/~DeuceRoadster/2-3-1.jpg
http://photo.starblvd.net/~DeuceRoadster/1-3-4.jpg
And then some fellow talking on his cell phone ran ALL OVER IT !

http://photo.starblvd.net/~DeuceRoadster/2-5-1.jpg

I almost cried........because I knew the charm was gone. I HAD to paint it.

http://photo.starblvd.net/~DeuceRoadster/4-3-3.jpg

Now it needs upholstery, new bumpers, and bunch of work... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Before it was just right.......at least to me.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif





.

[tomslik]

as i'm sitting here listening to some B.O.C., i come up with this analogy;"perfect" gossy big doller cars are the same as CD's, patina+LP's with slight imperfections.

just somethine about the little pops and crackles of a record adds charm and feeling....kinda makes me happy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif



don't know where 8 tracks and cassets fit in,though http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[jonnycola]

Deuce roadster, every time I see your 40 all crushed up....I get sad.


I think it should be illegal to post that pic.... and run into hot rods.

[Mild Mitch]

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