It's BONDO time!

[Paul]

I sold my house on the island last fall and bought a house on the mainland,
it still blows my mind how accessable everything is,
last summer when I wanted to do anything to my car it meant at least one day just getting supplies, now it seems everything is within blocks of my house!

there's a auto body supply store just five minutes away!

[mytlo56]

Cool. I'd like to see a pic. of your car humping that Hyundai http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Think you can make that happen next time you go for supplies?

[Paul]

some ugly truth before pictures

[Paul]

another

[briggs&strattonChev]

lol nice, you shoulda just started sanding right there!

[Paul]

more

[Paul]

and one more

[Anderson]

Man...I didn't like your car at first (being fenderlss), and then I wasn't sure, but now I definately like it. Nice work man!

[Paul]

this is being done in real time so bear with me..

choose your area of attack and strip it of all bolt on shit like so:

[Paul]

wash the area down with laquer thinner (I used DP90 for a primer)

and scuff it with a Scotch Brite pad;

[Rocket88]

What did you use for a roof panel?

[Paul]

wash it all down with laquer thinner again, always using a clean rag, mix up your plastic, this is not a time for weekness!

[Paul]

spread it on, if you have done a half assed job like mine then you shouldn't have to get much more than an eighth of an inch on there, move smoothly and don't waste time, the stuff will go off!

[Paul]

close the shop up, turn up the heat, maybe even put some lights on it if it's cool, clean your tools and go play on the computer or go get a six pack 'cause you want it to set good before you mess with it again.


more to come..

[Paul]

[ QUOTE ]
What did you use for a roof panel?

[/ QUOTE ]

I cut the roof out of the same car I got the rear end out of,

a '58 Ford Ranchwagon.

Paul

[34Fordtk]

Hey man thats "Body Filler" dude!! J/K http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif What did you use Rage Gold?? or good ol "Bondo"brand??

[Paul]

[ QUOTE ]
What did you use

[/ QUOTE ]

it's a brand I haven't used before, USC, BASE COAT-CLEAR COAT, EXTRA, light weight filler..

the dude said it would work,

and it seems to be so far http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Paul

[Paul]

here it is knocked down with a 36 grit 3M sticky on on my Harbor Freight straight line sander.

looks like I need to work some high spots down and fill a little more in the lows,

[choprods]

Paul- I like that fugkn CAR!

[Paul]

in the previous step I established the ridge I want to maintain at the rolled pan, so I repreped the lower area and again spread a nice even layer of filler over it, about an eighth or less here too. I also filled in some of the low areas on the first part.

[Paul]

ok last pic for the night,

applying plastics is a hazardous buisiness the shit lets off some serious shit when it's wet and then you create some pretty deadly dust when you shape it.

you should do what ever you can to help reduce the amount of exposure.

throughout this little demo I have worn a mask,

make sure the one you wear can handle the shit you don't want in your lungs.

I know no mask made will stop every thing but you can reduce the amount you inhale with safety equipment you can pick up almost anywhere.

Is it obvious I drank that six pack I went to get while the stuff was curing?

[Hackerbilt]

Gotta say it for the fiftieth time....that coupe lays down some SERIOUS vibes! It's just so different, but somehow...so right! Real hard to explain but the "feeling" seems universal.
It's got "IT" for sure!

Bill

[Tinbender]

What Bill said! Thats a badass car.

[34Fordtk]

Yeah it is very cool http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif,what color are ya gonna paintit???

[candyman]

Paul... you just proved my point! A guy can build a car out of bondo if he wants too! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Paul]

just a one picture update,
sure seems like life gets in the way of hot rodding around the holidays!
Between everything else going on I was able to get to work on the coupe for a minute today,
Maybe some real progress tomorrow!?

[MercMan1951]

STOP using the air file! Do it by hand using a longboard! It will take longer, but you'll appreciate the results more! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Paul]

thanks MercMan1951,

I have been using the air tools to rough it into shape and doing the final shaping by hand..

..........

as a side note;

I do try to control the dust too,
I have a gas heater in my shop and the air tools send the dust everywhere, including into the heater.

when plastics burn they produce toxic gasses that your mask will not stop...

Paul

[Iceberg]

Man I love the smell of fresh bondo.....hate the friggin' dust though! Slather some more on for me.

[autocol]

i don't think a guy can get too many "attaboys"...

paul, your car is so cool. i love it.

i'm actually doing some filler work on my car for the first time, but unfortunately it's my mullet-mobile so i can't really post progress pictures... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif i can't wait till i've finished this thing, so i can get onto my custom and show you guys some stuff...

until then, i shall continue to enjoy posts like this...

[old beet]

I love that porthole!!!!......OLDBEET

[fab32]

Paul, I guess its time to tell you once more that your car has got that "SOMETHING" that just screams HOT ROD. From the first time I saw it it sure turned my crank. I think its because its like a fresh creation, its not copying anything. That and the fact it just says "EVIL" makes it unique.
I'm going to reserve judgment on giving it the FINISHED look and hope it doesn't lose any of its CHARACTER.

Frank

[MercMan1951]

Paul, that's a good point about the heater. I have a gas wall radiant unit, and I was wondering about the flammability of the dust. I normally do my bodywork when the weather permits keeping the garage door open, but I may get in to some filler work before spring.

Anybody ever hear of filler dust causing a fire? I have this image in my head of the dust filing the shop and then spontaneously ignigting into a flash over or something because of the open flame of the heater. Is filler THAT flammable?

Love the ride, by the way. But you already know how we feel about that!

[Paul]

[ QUOTE ]
when plastics burn they produce toxic gasses that your mask will not stop...

[/ QUOTE ]

Like hydrogen cyanide and dioxin to name two.

I wouldn't worry about explosive dust, it is the dust burning in the heater and letting off toxics into a confined space that scares me.

I just try to keep the airborn particles to a minimum and use plenty of ventilation.

Paul

[Rooster]

For a few dollars more, My Dad has gotten dust collector compatible tools that he uses now. Orbital Sander(DA) and mostly wood tools. I've wondered what a long- board would look like with dust collector on it. Haven't seen one. But I'm bettin they're available. I should ask my buddy who worked at the limo mfg'r. Bet if anybody knew, he would.
Very Good point on the toxicity of burnt plastic dust.
I'll add my Love of yer car to this post too, since I've never said it before. Love that thing! Makes me wish my project rod wasn't a sedan sometimes... The awesome job you did on the shape of the whole tail and it's relation to the wheels with those reshaped arches is as Cool as how you did the grille to not look awkward like so many Mopars do... Can I just say I LOVE it?

[plmczy]

Nice work and thanks for the tips. I have one question, What brand tires are those on the back of your car? I want to run a set of cheaters on the back of my Dodge but PA inspection rules says you have to have tread. BF Goodrich drag radials are OK to use here and I took notice there are 2 tread grooves in your tires, so they would pass. later plmczy

[Paul]

plmczy,

they are Radirs and they will add grooves for a little mo bux,

but, they do say right on the sidewall "Not For Highway Use" though..

Paul

[Just Gary]

60's Style,
You applied the bondo on top of primer? Wouldn't it stick better if you stripped all the old primer off? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Not trying to rain on your parade... I love the car! But I'm planning to do some bodywork for myself soon and want to learn everything I can before starting.

[Paul]

gary55,

The primer is relatively fresh DP90 epoxy over sand blasted steel.

Manufactures suggested application says; primer, filler, surfacer, sealer, top coat.

Most body men I've talked to do like to put the filler on bare metal though.

Paul

[Just Gary]

Thanks much; for the tech post AND the clarification. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Rooster]

Perhaps you could add an answer that's plague me a long time too!?
They say to only put the epoxy on bare metal, not over your filler mat'l. So what're ya supposed to do to get an even epoxy coat after ya sand it down and expose metal around the mud? I've always just spot epoxied without trouble so far, but always wondered if the epoxy's were actually bonding together or leaving a small gap at their seam?

[overspray]

OK--Here's the gospel on filler over primer. I used to work as a technical/sales rep for the company that makes rage. I know the guys (chemists) that developed the resin for rage filler. I've been a bodyman/painter,sales rep and technical rep for 30 years. The resin in rage and other body fillers is fiberglass (polyester) resin. Today's resin technology makes the adhesion of these new resins as good or better than most epoxy adhesives (glue). They are designed to really stick! Also they are somewhat flexible when used properly. Most or probably all filler manufacturers design and reccommend them to be used over clean and prepped (grinding with course-36 grit) and rust free (sandblasted)and dry (free from moisture) BARE metal. They will stick to epoxy primers with mechanical adhesion-they DO NOT chemically bond with epoxies. If you put filler over epoxy primer it has to be fully cured with no solvents (thinner-reducer) left in the primer and still should be sanded with a course grit and cleaned. In other words- It's a wasted step that may or may not cause adhesion problems later on. Most critical is to be clean and moisture free. Body filler resin is a thermal set plastic-it cures with heat. The hardner-MEK peroxide is a catalyst that produces heat in the resin. It needs to be at 64 degrees F to cure-best is 72-80 degreesF. (If you live in a warm climate still read on but it may not apply to you.) If the metal is cold the filler will cure from the outside in and could trap some moisture and solvent from the resin underneath-causing adhesion or bubbling problems later. (Styrene is the solvent in resin and produces the smell we associate with bondo and fillers). Also moisture (humidity in the air) will condense on the surface of the cold metal. This is the same effect you get when the mirror in the bathroom fogs up when you shower. (I hope you all shower). The mirror and the metal of the car are about 10-15 degrees cooler than the air temperature and the humidity condenses on them. If you warm the mirror or the car metal to about the air temperature, the moisture won't condense on the surface. Using a heat source to warm (NOT HOT) the panel will eliminate the moisture being trapped under the filler (which can show up as rust under the filler) and help keep the cure temperature even through the filler. This is the way the chemists designed the product to work. You can use extra catalyst to speed the cure, but too much will cause too much heat in the reaction and crystalize the resin which causes it to be brittle and break down (yup-more problems later). If you head to the autobody supply store for more hardner you may be using too much and looking at problems down the road. PreWARMING the metal and keepin the shop warm will let it cure more evenly with the correct ammount of hardner. Heat lamps or lights should be far enough away so the panel feels warm when you put your bare hand on it (NOT HOT). The correct ammount of hardner is 1 1/2-3%. Here's an easy way to figure it. On the pallet or board you mix your bondo or filler on put the amount you are going to mix up in the form of a circle. With your spreader or mixer divide the circle in half-50%. Divide the half in half-25%-half again-12.5%-half again-6.25%-3.125% (this is the maximum) half again-1.5% (this is the minimum). If you have a COLD shop put a small batch on a WARMED test panel to check the cure-spread to about 1/4 inch thick. After a few times you'll be able to gauge the amount for the size of the filler batch you are mixing. There is some room here for a little extra-but not a lot of extra hardner. REMEMBER, this needs to work with the temperature of the air and metal. It will cost a lot less to follow these steps of correctly preparing the metal and working with the correct temperature range and hardner amounts than to even bother with epoxy primer as an underlayer. Between coats of filler DO NOT wipe with solvent (thinner). Rough up the areas not sanded and blow the dust off real good then apply a new layer. (Solvent will absorb into the filler). Thickness of the layers should not be more than 1/4-3/8 inch. If you put filler on too thick the heat in the reaction will be concentrated and higher in the thick area and could lead to crystalizing the resin in that spot making it brittle and subject to cracking later. Also too thick can mean you won't be able to get all the air pockets smoothed out. Use a primer surfacer system that is reccommended for the paint you will use. Self etching primers usually contain an acid and should not be used under filler ( the acid will slow down thew cure of the resin). I like these for bare metal on my projects. I use them but grind them off where I do filler work. Also the acid in self etching primer will affect the epoxy resin hardners in epoxy primers where they may not cure chemically but will still dry. It is possible to put epoxy primer over self etching primer BUT ONLY if the acid is gone and the etch primer is fully cured. (probably a wasted step anyway). My preference is etch primer on bare sandblasted metal (I'm talking old cars here) bondo or filler on bare metal, a catalized spot or glazing putty (bondo skim coat), a good 2 part urethane primer filler and a good topcoat finish. Yup, I know how to make paint look like primer (suede). Now one more thing to screw up your minds-- today's bondo/body filler technology will adhere to properly cured paint and primers if they are absolutely clean and dry. They stick by mechanical adhesion- they grip to scratches-the rougher the surface the better the grip. Solvents (thinners and reducers) in paints and primers can work under the edges of the bondo/body filler area-and it's easier for this to happen if you have paint or primer under the bondo/body filler. Even when priming over filler on bare metal don't put so much on that you have the solvent affect or "lift " the edge of the filler. Use nice even coats and let the solvents "flash" (evaporate) between coats of primer. (no bondo work today-- it's 25 degrees below zero Farenheit I'll be spending most of the day trying to find IT to pee) overspray

[Paul]

thanks overspray,

some good info there.

sounds like I'm on track with all except,

I did wipe my epoxy primer down with laquer thinner before and after roughing it up.

but I did blow it all down good with clean dry air and brought it up to room temp before the filler went on.

this will only be my third complete paint job, 'still learning http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

the first two turned out ok..

Paul

[overspray]

We're all still learning (I hope). I just wanted to pass along some good info. I'm not into putting anybody down. I really like your ride. Looks like you are doing GREAT!! From the looks of the numbers viewing this post there are a lot of people interested in your car and BONDO. Keep the progress pics coming. overspray