Articles wanted for WebRodder.com, HAMBer input a must!

[ironhunter]

Well, after a long and tiring search we have finally acquired a company in Texas willing to host WebRodder.com. Due to the fact that the articles are in Adobe Acrobat format and the high resolution pics, most of the 350 present articles are running from 150 to 300 MB. Finding a host that can handle the server space and bandwidth required was not easy. We are looking at (hopefully) less than 3 weeks to be online.
Some of the biggest names in the industry are on board with us, such as Billet Specialties, Tanks, Inc., and Air Ride Technologies. So far there has not been a single large advertiser that has turned down the opportunity to get in on the action. Many have joined up because of Doc's reputation and long-standing relationship with them.
Now, we want to open the door to you, the rodding public, to contribute articles for WebRodder.com. I have told Doc about the vast talent and resourcefulness of this group and he says go for it. I'll post more info as soon as we can sit down and outline what we need you to do, but I want to give you all a heads-up right now so you can go ahead and start taking pictures and writing. Remember, this is a tech-only internet magazine site dedicated to hot rodding and customizing, supported by the advertisers. There will be no editorials, advertorials, or slamming of any kind. We cant say Fords are better than Chebbies, or GTOs are the real muscle cars, or claim one year of car as the Quintessential Hot Rod. If you have a good, meat-and-potatoes, no bullshit article to contribute, you are welcome to send it. Dont worry about whether you are a Pulitzer prize writer, just write it out in plain English with good step-by-step explanation and well-lit photos. If the text needs editing, that will be taken care of before the article is published to the site. Anything from installing a junkyard part, new part, or any fabrication or customizing that you have done or are doing. From one small item to a full build on a car, whatever. We want this site to be the best it can be, and you guys are the ones that can make it that way. Doc has all of his vintage engine build articles, the Wingfoot Model A, and all the others that were previously printed in SRM and other Primedia magazines. We also have some being contributed by other well-known writers (whose names I am not at liberty to state at this time). There is only so much we can do ourselves as far as projects, and the input that you guys can offer will cover so many more aspects of the hobby than we can do by ourselves.
Any questions, email or PM me. I will post more specific details as soon as we get sat down and draw up a good plan.
Thanks guys, I'm looking forward to the ride!
Ray
IronHunter Rod & Custom

[av8]

How much do you pay for car features, how-tos, tech/engineering features, etc.?

[Spike!]

Uh...Billet Specialties? Air Ride? I think youre at the wrong place. Theres a street rodder board somewhere that will love and embrace you. This place is for real hot rods.

Spike

[Fraz]

Way to insert foot into mouth, HRP. If you new Ray at all, you'd know he's a HAMB type guy thru and thru. You even seen his projects or anything?

Just cuz he's got mainstream sponsors means dick. Someone's gotta help pay the bills.

[BigJim394]

hotrodphotos.....I'm guessing you are maybe not familiar with Doc's many great tech articles in rod mags....many dealing with HAMB style old school engines. They sometimes appear in mags like StreetRodder and even though there may be all sorts of billet related articles in that mag, Doc's articles are like diamonds. Having his tech articles online will be great. This webrodder site sounds like a really good resource, and sure, they will have stuff for the high tech crowd too, but who cares.

[brutus t maximus]

well i for one am very excited to here of the new site, hopefully it will provide a venue for some creative outlet.

i understand that the advertisers foot the bill and that is a necessary evil i am able to endure, i suppose,, maybe,, provided that the articles dont end up being test beds for the advertisers stuff..

i wouldnt mind seeing their stuff incorporated into a project that is being featured, but the last thing we need is them taking over yet another sort of media... we already have them owning the magazines, tv with boyd, jesse and the like,, and if they do the same approach with the website,, well i guess we still have this board... until they figure out how to muscle in on it.

personally i am a "build more, buy less" type of guy for good reason, we buy too much already in our everyday life, and make far less than we ever did as a nation.

what i would love to see in the new site is:

good articles on how to do stuff in your garage, how to build it yourself.

hell anyone with a fat wallet can buy it, but not everyone can build it. perhaps with those that can build doing articles and pics, more of us that cant or havent will be inspired to do more ourselves. And that my friends is a very good thing.

start it right and fight like hell to keep it right.

i will be eagerly awaiting the debut of your site.

bob

[ironhunter]

Spike, I'll forgive your ignorance. You don't know who or what you are talking about and that is understandable. Get out your past issues of SRM, CR, Engine Builder, Street Trucks, whatever it is you read (you do read, correct? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ) and look for Doc's articles. I think you'll find that he is much more the rodder than most. Sure, a lot of his articles have dealt with products that you and I dont necessarily like, but he had to play the game for years in order to collect a paycheck. He dont have to anymore, and that is the reason for the new site. He dont own a Deuce with a SBC in it. He dont think that any certain car is the "quintessential hot rod". In fact, he recognizes the long overdue "uprising" (if you will) amongst the vast majority of us in the hobby that are tired of the media blasting us with the idea that a true hotrod had to be a billet-laden, Chebbie-powered 32 Ford that cost more to build than most of us make in 10 years. Spike, Doc has done some great build articles with 50's and 60's hemis, FE Fords, Y-block Fords, Nailheads, Rockets, etc. You've read them, I know. There has been discussion between us concering a 365 Cadillac and 289 Studebaker engine builds, but they wont make the pages of SRM. They will, however, find a permanent home on WebRodder.com. Bud, if those arent traditional enough for you then I give up trying to please you. You'll just have to stay away from the site http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Thanks to the rest of you for your support, and I know Spike will come around once he knows what it is he speaks of. Big Jim and Fraz, you got the right idea. You look at the stuff you like and overlook the rest. Thanks guys, its that frame of mind that I wish we all had in common.
Brutus, you said it man! That is exactly what it is going to be. See, the good thing about this is even though the advertisers support the site, they dont control the content of the articles. Hell, I dont even control that! Doc has already laid down the law that in any disagreement over content, his decision will be final. I can live with that. Sure, there will be a lot of articles that include new parts, but that is why we want input from guys like the HAMBers. To balance everything out and widen the range of subjects. Doc and I are just like you, we love to build it instead of buy it. In a lot of cases we have to. So far, there has been near nothing that has been a buy-it-and-bolt-it-on part on my car. I've had to make it, or at least buy it and make it fit. The advertisers donate parts for print, that is why I have a Bitchin firewall (its a 46 Chevy firewall that will have to be modified heavily) and Air Ride Technologies trinagulated 4-bar under my car. Of course, once I got the 4-bar and roll-up bags installed I am VERY satisfied with it. "Traditional"? Maybe not in some opinions. Safe? Definitely. I originally had the car set up with a 40 Ford rear spring and bones (which was fine), but after the offer was made I didnt hesitate to change. After all, I am building a car that no doubt will be driven a lot by my wife and will rarely leave the garage without at least one of my 4 children in it. I'm not foolish enough to throw something together half-assed when they are going to be in it, especially when the opportunity comes along to make it better.
The mags that will not run an article unless it features a current advertiser's product. Thats not bullshit or an observation, thats the way they operate. Since the article ran in CR where I installed the Tanks, Inc. gas door and my name was placed at the end of the article in the contributors list, I have been hit twice with questions about advertising with them. I gotta stop doggin the mags though, since that isnt our purpose. They have their place, and I hope that we will find a niche to fill. Webrodder will be tech-only. How to do it, how to make it, how to install it. And yes, there will be some "where to buy it" articles. Part of the territory, and we all have to buy something. I can make a lot of stuff but sometimes its cheaper and less time consuming to just buy the damn thing. How many of us have access to Lincoln backing plates or the means to make them? C'mon guys, we all depend on vendors of some kind.
One thing he and I agreed on up front is there will be no feature cars, no editorials or opinions published, and absolutely no selling out to powerful advertisers. The advertisers that we are working with are absolutely great, and they know up front that all the articles will not be featuring their products. Many articles wont feature a product at all. I've got plenty of customizing how-tos, such as some of the floor and panel work I did for Doc's 54 Dodge and the trick air cleaners I build from 50's body panels. They want to see the site promote ALL aspests of hot rodding. Billet Specialties and ART arent demons, they are trying to make a living like all the rest of us. Why are they the bad guys for making a living producing parts for the trailer queens? I make polished billet brackets that have ended up on some very high end cars. Does that make me a bad guy and an enemy of traditional rodders? Hell no! I'm building a billet heavy 48 Ford in my shop right now. Does that make me untraditional? HELL NO! I'm getting paid damn good to do it, and I'd be a fool to turn down the man's money because the car isnt traditional enough to suit me. I am beginning to like the car a bit, but if it was mine I'd sell it and buy a couple more early-thirties NON-Ford/Chevy steel bodies and build them with Nailheads or 50's Caddy engines. A lot of us make our living building cars or parts for cars that we dont necessarily have a great liking for, but that doesnt make us un-traditional. Its called using our talent to make a buck where a buck can be made. Funny how you see the SRM feature cars with the big advertiser's stuff on them, but have a conversation with the company's owners if you have the chance. They love traditional cars! They arent stuck on themselves or their products like some of us little guys sometimes think they must be. We are the ones that many times alienate them, not vice-versa.
By the way, anyone that says my air bags arent
"traditional" just doesnt have his facts straight. The concept is straight from the 50's (actually much earlier), but we're fortunate enough today to have the technology to make it work.
At this point there is no monetary pay for articles. We are just hoping that some of you enjoy sharing what you have, and will enjoy the satisfaction of having an article attributed to you and showing off your talents. I didnt get paid for the Custom Rodder article, but I sure enjoyed the attention and the work it is bringing in.
Thanks fellers

[Spike!]

Ironhunter- No need for insults, I DO read ( Ifound my way here all on my own). I just happen to dislike the sponsors you mentioned. I'll stand by my original post.Thanks for your concern.

Spike
Hooked on Phonics Spokesperson

[Nads]

Ouch Spike, you got yelled at.

[ironhunter]

Spike, look really close at my post, specifically where you took offence. See the little winkin face? That means I'm not "really" meaning to insult you. Sorry if you felt insulted. If you couldnt read, you would have never replied to my original (and lengthy) post, now would you? Just having fun, man...if you felt it was a laugh at your expense I apologize. No hard feelings here, I stand by the first few lines of my reply. I understand where you are coming from.
Ray

[fatluckys]

Any interest in some custom interior build-up type stuff? I've been taking lots of pics at work...

[choprods]

Yeah Ray [Fatlucky's] could do you some good -his stuff looks GREAT!!

[ironhunter]

Sure! That is exactly what we are looking for; you guys showing your talents.
Ray

[Digger_Dave]

Ray, I can't seem to "hook" on to your web site.
Something I'm doing wrong??

[Docfranknstein]

Ironhunter, I've sent You a pm( atleast I think it went thru), let Me know if I can be of assistance. Von Doc

[ironhunter]

Dave, I cant seem to either. It is on a local server so it is constantly up and down. That is one reason we arent using a setup like that for WebRodder!

DocFranknstein, I got your message and I thought I replied. Yeah, I'm lookin forward to seeing your pictures and story.
Sorry about that, I'll reply again. I remember typin a reply, but I have been working with three or four browser windows open and editing web pages, so I could have hit a link and accidentally left the reply page before I sent it to you.
Sorry
Ray

[Rocky]

WOW! I'm jazzed. A tech-only site partially paid for by the big-dogs of store-bought fabricated parts. I love it. I wanna get in on this.
So, it's gonna be a few weeks before it's ready, eh?

[Digger_Dave]

[ QUOTE ]
Dave, I cant seem to either. It is on a local server so it is constantly up and down. That is one reason we arent using a setup like that for WebRodder!
Ray

[/ QUOTE ]

Ray, I used the PM (HAMB) to send a note.

[repoguy]

You know, sometimes I get confused when I'm on line and have to ask myself things like:

"Hey, what website is this anyway?"

"What websites would love and embrace me?"

and

"What the heck is this real hot rod thing all about?"

Lucky for me, there's always a "HAMB policeman" on hand to answer these questions and help me to feel safe again.

(Insert sigh of relief here)

[ironhunter]

Thanks Repo, again another clear thinker (I never knew you as anything but)

Rocky, it is great, aint it? They not only support the site financially, they support the idea that a lot of guys are doing the stuff themselves instead of buying their pre-fab parts. To some, it might not make sense, but once you understand their view it becomes clear. They know that some fellas build cars for the simple fact they love to fabricate stuff and make it work. Hell, thats how most of them got started. They suuport that way of thinking because that very thing is what made them successful. What they are looking at though is the fact that if they support an all-tech site that demonstrates the "build it yourself from junkyard parts" way of doing things, the rodding community (particularly the die-hard traditionalists) will see that they are on our side. It is their hope that if they support what we are doing, sometime in the future when we actually do NEED to buy a part we'll remember them. I dont have a problem with that and I cant see where anyone else would. They arent our enemy, and a lot of what is happening with WebRodder is actually based on ideas that have been presented by the owners of some of the bigger companies. They want this site to succeed because it is not only in the best interest of the backyard builder, but in their best interest as well. We seem to forget that the paper media are the ones that left the little guys behind, not the vendors. The vendors want to sell parts, sure, but at the same time they want to see everyone building a hot rod. The higher number of hot rods that are being built calculates into beffer sales for them. Not that every car will have Air Ride under it or Billet Specialties parts, but there will be a stable percentage of the total number of cars that will. The paper media is limited to a certain amount of space where they have to cater to the best interest of their advertisers, hence the reason the pages are full of featured trailer queens and installation articles instead of fabrication articles. We dont have to do that. Space limitations arent a problem, and we are free to include articles that deal with installing junkyard or fabricated parts just as much as we are free to publish an article about installing an ididit steering column or Shockwave system. It is OUR choice what goes on the site, and that is totally supported by the advertisers. Paper media milks advertisers for $3500 for a full-page ad, so they are committed to promoting the advertiser's product even if it means alienating their readers. You dont really think that, in Letters to the Editior, there was only one reader every month that complained about the billet trailer queens, do you? I always thought it somewhat amusing how they manage to print one letter every month where someone voices his opinion on the decline of real skinned-knuckle, backyard-built cars, but there were 10 letters praising their features on Boyd cars or whatever. There is a resurgence everywhere of traditional-style cars (not that they ever left) where cars are being built without the high-tech shit. The magazines have mentioned it, but never went much farther. Why? It isnt in their best interest to do so with their limitations of space. They are stuck with the idea that they have to use their space to sell advertiser's products in order to keep their books in print and keep their jobs. WebRodder isnt my job, and it isnt Doc's. Sure, there will inevitably be some profits made from advertising dollars, but we are doing this to share technical information with everyone who wants it. Plain and simple. In fact, the opening page contains a piece of artwork, done by one of the well-known magazine cartoonists, with a bull squatting over a pile of shit and a big red circle with a line across it; NO BULLSHIT! Period! Best part...the advertisers LOVE IT! This is what they want as well as what we want. All tech, no feature cars, no opinion based statements designed to piss off readers. Just (as the opening page states) "All Tech...All The Time".
You are gonna love it, I'm convinced of that!

[Digger_Dave]

Ray, ironman web still not working.
Sent you an email using the addy you gave me in the PM. (HAMB)

Did IT work??

[av8]

Let me try this once more: What will you pay for suitable contributions to your site?

Thus far I've seen nothing in this thread that would compel me to spend much time seeking you out. The unrelenting, unbroken density of your posts tells me you (a) haven't a clue about effective, compelling communication, or (b) do have a clue but are too lazy to expend the effort. In either case, my expectations for your site are not very high.

[ironhunter]

Dave, I got it. Reply in the works. thanks man...really!

av8
read my posts...no monetary compensation at this time except proper credit given to contributing writers. Sorry. If you arent interested in having your name and talents shown, then I'm happy not to publish them. As far as your expectations, I hate it for you. I have answered every question asked in my posts, including yours twice now. I'm interested in tech stuff from real guys that get their hands dirty, not from those who hold their tech secrets in hopes it will someday make them a fortune. It doesnt work that way, never has for me anyway. That is why I offer my tech services to the clubs I belong to for FREE. I do it because I enjoy helping others with problems in order to get their projects going and keep them going, not to try and sell my brain. WebRodder will be free to readers because we will be able to keep the site going through advertiser's support. If you do a bit of research, you'll find that the paper mags operate the same way. The circulation sales are minuscule and would not support the enormous costs of publishing the magazine. Advertising keeps them going. Same here. I'm sure your input would be an asset, but it's not a neccesity http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ironhunter]

[ QUOTE ]

At this point there is no monetary pay for articles. We are just hoping that some of you enjoy sharing what you have, and will enjoy the satisfaction of having an article attributed to you and showing off your talents. I didnt get paid for the Custom Rodder article, but I sure enjoyed the attention and the work it is bringing in.
Thanks fellers

[/ QUOTE ]

av8, this is from my second post in this thread. Kinda wasted the time you spent bitchin me out when all you had to do was read...now who's lazy http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[ironhunter]

av8, not to leave you totally out in the cold (that is not my intention at all), I would like to make a suggestion if you would be willing to hear it. Most vendors will donate the parts for a project IF (1)the parts are used in an article in such a way as to promote the product, and (2) you have a reputation for doing quality work. If you would like to contribute and be compensated, you might want to try that avenue. Many of the articles that I am right now adding to the site were done that way. That is how I got my rear suspension, firewall, and air springs, with many more items promised. That way, you get some good shit and readers get to see what you can do. I'm sure you have some good material, but the funds are not there to support the server hosting, bandwidth, software, and administration costs AND pay for articles...not at the present time anyway.
I really don't think you are lazy, hell I know sometimes my posts are too large and I need to come to terms with that. I know you won't think me lazy either once the site is up. It's there in part (just not accessible until I enter the DNS information), but I am spending several hours per day editing and adding articles still. I'd like to work with you if I can do so, and if you are interested maybe we can point a vendor in your direction that will be interested in working with you. Hell, we can't do all the projects and don't intend to try. Your call, man. Just wanted you to know where we stood and that I really don't want to piss you off, but reality is exactly that...reality.

[MercMan1951]

Iornhunter: I've got a journalism degree from U of M, I work on multimillion-dollar advertisements all day long for a major communications company, and I am devout fan of the HAMB. If you need free editing (or preliminary editing...i.e. proofreading chores) done, please contact me at kevsho2000@yahoo.com. Sounds like a great idea you've got in the works...

MercMan

[ironhunter]

mercman, you Rock! I'll get with you shortly and we'll talk. Much appreciate your support!
Ray

[av8]

Gosh, I guess I don't have a fuckin' clue about doing any of this work that you're talking about . . .

Do your homework and know your audience!

[Ryan]

I hope your tech articles are better than your posts! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[av8]

I'm gonna assume you weren't sniping at me, Ryan . . . http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ryan]

Av8, you would be assuming correctly...

[ironhunter]

[ QUOTE ]
Gosh, I guess I don't have a fuckin' clue about doing any of this work that you're talking about . . .

Do your homework and know your audience!





[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I could say the same thing to you...never heard of you, but I'm tired of foolin with you. I basically asked if anyone wanted to contribute, you asked a question and I answered it. Then you call ME lazy claiming I didnt answer you, but all you had to do was read. Simple task. I have better things to do that argue with someone who has nothing better to do. As I said, if you dont want to contribute or read the site for that matter, it makes absolutely no difference to me.

Ryan, if you care to explain your comment, I'll take every word to heart. At this point, I have no clue where that came from. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[autocol]

i think the problem is that your posts are LOOOOOONG have have ZERO paragraph structure.

they're so hard to read that... well, we didn't bother reading them! you may have answered his question but in a slab of text that big it's easy to just miss the line entirely, or just give up and move to the next post.

AV8 is a guy that posts a LOT of good stuff, and while i don't know who he is i suspect he probably makes his money writing about hotrods somewhere, so it was a fair question on his behalf.

on your behalf, you're basically asking people to contribute to a site - for nothing - that will make you advertising dollars, and as a result you're expected to deal with them patiently... and you haven't. and yes, i know, you're providing a service we can all tap into blah blah blah but the fact remains that you're basically asking for help, and you haven't been very polite.

end result, AV8 pissed off, won't contribute anything, and many of us (ryan included) can understand why.

capiche?

(i'm not being nasty, by the way, i just thought it was obvious why you were copping flak, and evidently you're not seeing it, so i've made it clear as i can...)

[ironhunter]

Fair enougb. It was a complete paragraph, not a "line"http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm not trying to be shitty to you, I'm trying to clear the air a bit and I apologize for the length of this reply. Thanks for pointing out what I can assure you is mistaken thoughts. For the most part, anyway.

I have been polite to everyone except when the slams start. If I do come across otherwise, it is either misinterpretaion of my intentions, or I am addressing someone who I have spoken with enough that we can make jokes and know it will be taken lightly. Are you polite when someone you dont know and have no open communication with blasts you for reasons that you can make no sense of whatsover?

No paragraph structure? Uh...an indention of the first line is normally the beginning of a new paragraph, or at least that is the way it used to be taught. Ok, I'll not be lazy and hit the Enter key...

I replied in a loooong (have have) post instead of short broken ones to prevent making the thread huge with many little ones. If that is a problem, I apologize for having too much to say http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif By the way, the little goony faces are an attempt to keep the conversation light. If I was intending to be mean or impolite, I can click this little feller http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/mad.gif As far as I know, thats the first time.

As for asking for "help"...not so. I wanted the input of HAMBers for the purpose of spreading the traditional message, what I thought this board was about. Maybe I was mistaken. There are other writers contributing articles, some that pertain to subjects that some of you won't like, such as billet cars. I truly wanted to see a lot of input from traditional rod and custom guys to keep the material balanced. Hell, I'd rather see the scales tip in the traditional favor. Evidently I was wrong too in assuming traditional fellas would want that. You want to let the billet cars and mini-trucks to overcome the traditionals in this form of media as well, be my guest. I'll keep doing what I can to add a bit here and a bit there of traditional. Maybe the reason they have been all but shut out from other media is because they wanna be...

I have always thought it would be great to have my interests and work published, and assumed (maybe incorrectly) that others on here would like the same. If I was wrong, ok. Just don't contribute anything. I dont mean that pissy either. Its not worth fussing over or eating up bandwidth. I asked for traditionally based input, not what I have ended up with.

HAMB drags and all the other activites held somewhere a thousand miles away dont particularly interest me, but you dont see posts from me slamming it in the threads pertaining to it. I just dont read what I am not interested in.

As for advertising dollars, light another one. I wish...
I get some free parts for the work I do on the articles that have my name attributed to them. Dude, thats where it stops. Ryan is making big money with all the HAMB members from some money fairy that visits every night, too http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif.

As for av8, I havent the faintest who he is, and dont feel that I should required by him to know who he is unless he tells me. An oversized ego is usually evident in such assumptions. I'm not saying he has an inflated ego, so don't try and read into that statement something that wasnt said. I meet a lot of people who think I ahould know who they are because they are popular in their little circle. However, I usually associate that attitude with gold-chainers. Again, dont read anything into that other than what I am saying. It was him who began blasting me with accusations of laziness and some babble about unable to communicate, I defended myself.

Polite? As I said, it was av8 who started the impoliteness. Is it not evident that he should accept the fact that he was wrong in his statements, when he assumed that I was ignoring him? Is anyone blasting him? No, because it is quite evident that he is a buddy of Ryan's, and no one here is going to go that route for fear of being locked out.

Patience? You should be directing that statement toward av8. He flew off the handle, I tried my best to explain what and why, then I get an even nastier reply about doing my homework. His reputation may precede him somewhere, but not where I live. Not as "av8" anyway. Yes, he posts a lot of "good stuff" (I searched the last 3 weeks, doin my homework, ya know), but most of what I see are answers to questions or requests (not that this is a bad thing, in fact quite the opposite) that don't pertain to me and I havent followed those threads. Sorry, but I dont have any 4-2 SBC intakes to sell or have information on 8BAs. Good information offered by what I will not argue (nor ever stated otherwise) a very wise man, however it was not a subject I was interested in. He and I share many interests, but it is evident that we also have many interests which we do not have in common.

av8, (this is sincere) I apologize if you felt I was ignoring you. I apologize if you have introduced yourself to me in the past and I have forgotten who you are. I cannot apologize for not knowing who you are otherwise in real life though. I only know you as three characters on a computer screen. Up to this point, that is all you are to me. I know I am no more than a username to you as well and expect nothing from you except the same respect and digninty that I will gladly give you. Isn't it evident though that I am not a member of your following and assuming that "everyone" knows you is a bit ridiculous? I can't see why I would be expected to know anything about you, just as I wouldn't expect you to know anything about me or my background. I don't mean that in a pissy way, I do respect your knowledge and did not intentionally insult you. Well, ok, maybe I did. But only after you attempted to insult me http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif Fair enough? Sorry man.
How about we both get the sand out of our pussies and be men instead of acting like little school boys? Can we have a civilized conversation without the insults? I'm game...theres no hard feelings here. Yes, you asked a fair question, but I did answer it.

And finally, to all HAMBers;
Several of you have offered to contribute material and it is much appreciated. If the feeling here is that I am making a fortune from this and you don't want to contribute, I totally understand and there will be no hard feelings on my part if you recant. For everone that thinks something is a good idea, there are always those who want to try and put it down. I'm just going to do what I set out to do, HAMB or no HAMB. I won't waste space on this board mentioning it again.
ray

[ironhunter]

Okay, I guess I should apologize as well for failing to realize, after almost a century of posts, that indented lines dont show up in the actual post. I'll try and do better. Really...I will.

[4eva4banger]

You are missing out of a heck of a lot if you dont know who av8 is. He has written the best articles on traditional hot rodding from history to current day low tech. Vern Tardel has been the subject in some way or another of most of av8's writing and photography and the pair are a wonderful combination. They have passed the traditional torch to the younger generation and rekindled the hot rod embers of the older generation. Flick back to your original American Rodder Magazines when Joe Kress was still editor and see where av8 played an important role. Take a close look at "How to build a traditional Ford hot rod" and see the contribution av8 has made to traditional hot rodding. He writes clearly and in a way that makes you feel like you were there.

[4eva4banger]

av8 and the Santa Rosa clan built the most wonderful little A-V8 roadster too!

[Killer]

1. you don't know who Mike Bishop is?!?!?!! What the hell is wrong with you?!?!!!

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

2. Good automotive journalists get PAID to write. Your gonna be doing A LOT of editing I'm afraid.

[ QUOTE ]
Most vendors will donate the parts for a project IF (1)the parts are used in an article in such a way as to promote the product, and (2) you have a reputation for doing quality work. If you would like to contribute and be compensated, you might want to try that avenue. Many of the articles that I am right now adding to the site were done that way. That is how I got my rear suspension, firewall, and air springs, with many more items promised. That way, you get some good shit and readers get to see what you can do.

[/ QUOTE ]

3. This statement will keep me away from your site. You'll NEVER be able to give an unbiased and honest opinion on a vendor donated a part.

[Fortyfordguy]

I'm going to add my modest two cents on this. I think the overall concept for a tech article website is a good idea. Some (but not all) of you may not realize that a site loaded with graphics and other material tends to eat up web hosting bandwidth, which translates into money. There is an ever-growing appetite for more hands-on articles or knowledge. Someone searching for a particular bit of tech info can try to find the exact issue addressed on a standard website, or they can pose their question on one of several auto related forums to solicit the answers from those who've been there/done that. Both avenues can be advantageous in their own way, but they both take time.

I am the webmaster for the FORD FLATHEAD V8 ENGINE website. I carry the cost of the site myself in order to make things work smoothly (no pop-ups, no registration, etc). If you are looking for more knowledge on flathead V8's it's a good place to start. However, it is not the "be-all" "do-all" resource for this subject. The ongoing 1939 Ford Coupe Project pages are visited by many, many people according to my site statistics. Again, this is not the only resource for restoration or hot-rodding of a '39 Ford. It does show that people are interested in seeing how things are done.

Unless you are Yahoo or Microsoft (or other big boy on the web) you have a difficult time finding the advertising support money to make these true "profit centers"; or even to carry their own weight for that matter. It will take a major investment in his personal time to organize and set up that Tech site, much less to keep it updated (and updating is nearly the most important aspect of web site success of all). My site is updated anywhere from once to 4 or 5 times each week.

As for the use of donated parts in the development of a tech article, my only suggestion is that the author indicates that he received donated pieces for the project. Any intelligent reader will realize that the article is written around its use and that other brands or styles could also be utilized for a similar project. You have to figure that a certain percentage of rodders will be using that very same brand, or perhaps making their own crafted (but copied) part to do the same job.

Finally, I want to say that I enjoy reading posts from this and several other old car related forums. Like anyone else, I skip over the titles that do not interest me. You or I can do the same with other websites....view 'em or forget 'em. Choices....choices.....choices.....it's the American way! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

The Ford Flathead V8 Engine site (http://www.flatheadv8.com)

[Digger_Dave]

[ QUOTE ]
I am the webmaster for the FORD FLATHEAD V8 ENGINE website. I carry the cost of the site myself in order to make things work smoothly (no pop-ups, no registration, etc). If you are looking for more knowledge on flathead V8's it's a good place to start.

My site is updated anywhere from once to 4 or 5 times each week.

The Ford Flathead V8 Engine site (http://www.flatheadv8.com)

[/ QUOTE ]

Fortyfordguy, My compliments on a very good site. Go there often.

[fatluckys]

Well... I'm not a professional writer and I wouldn't expect any payment (wouldn't turn down free stuff though) but I would still love to do some articles. As long as there are pictures of my work, and my name and contact info, I consider that free advertising for my shop (except for the time to take pictures and explain them.) I don't see how that can be bad. For every do-it-yourselfer there's another guy that wants to pay somebody else to do it. The more exposure the better, as far as I'm concerned.

[ironhunter]

Thanks Fatluckys. That is exactly why I am doing this.

As far as donated parts and "keeping away from the site", I can only say "ok, stay away". Again, a comment made on misunderstanding. If you read any magazine article, you are reading an article written around donated parts. My resquest to the HAMB had NOTHING to do with donated parts articles. THAT is what I am trying to get away from. I only suggested that to av8 if he was interested in compensation.

As far as who he is, still dont know the name. Maybe if I look through my American Rodders, I might see that name. I never saw anything there about someone named "av8". That is the point that I am trying to make, seemingly a point that I cannot get across. I am a long way (thankfully) from California. I am sure there are people here that he has never heard of as well. I'm through talking about av8. I have no hard feelings toward the man. If he wants to talk to me without making insults, I'm open to it and will do likewise. I'm not going to talk ABOUT him anymore though. Too much on this post has already been taken out of context and turned around where the original intent is totally gone from the picture.
Thats all I have to say about that http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[ironhunter]

thanks to you fortyfordguy as well. You explained what I can't seem to. I really think the ones that are giving me a hard time arent going to care evan after it is explained, because I dont think their motivation is anything other than personal. Nevertheless, I sincerly do appreciate the explanation and I enjoy your site very much.

Donated parts are a fact of life in the business. I am making every attempt to change that to some degree. Articles that I am going to do using donated parts will also have an additional section on using junkyard parts to do the same thing with a price and time comparison. I did one about converting stock window regulators to power recently using late-model GM motors and parts, along with doing the same thing with Specialty Power Windows parts No paper mag would touch it, because it opened up an option to buying their advertiser's parts. I know the people at Specialty and respect them, and I know they had no problem with what I did. Reason being, doing the conversion took a few calculations and some work that a lot of people would not or could not do. Those people get a good article on installing the aftermarket parts (possibly becoming a customer), while others get some ideas about using cheap parts. Everyone gets something they can use.

Again, some care and some just want to gripe.
Thanks man
Thanks
Ray

[fastcat]

Hi I am fully willing to let you have the use of my how to porting and polishing articles that I am doing for the HAMB. I have only posted the first in the series so far but there are more to come. You can do a search for the first one which was posted a couple weeks back and see if it is worthy. I have them available in PDF. Thanks Shawn

[Luke Jivetalker]

Ironhunter, you my friend are a complete and total ASS! You want people to send you tech articles and such and expect to give them NOTHING in return, I'd be willing to bet that the advertisers on your site aren't getting thier ads for free, so why in the hell would I give you ANYTHING for free? If you can explain this to me in a fashion that makes sense, I'd gladly accomodate you with some bitchin' low buck tech stuff, if you can't, then I won't.
Skip

PS- AV8 is Mike Bishop, truly one of the most talented and knowledgeable hot rodders, NOT 1-800-Build My Car street rodders on the planet, do some research dingledick http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[brutus t maximus]

ok guys:

i will try to relate what i am thinking as clearly as i can.

i feel compelled to speak up on this subject on a number of points.

but first i want to put some context to my position.

i grew up in a small town in kansas, we had a blacksmith, we had a gunsmith/builder, shoe builder/repairman, appliance/tv/radio repair man, and countless other machinists and the like.. just as most other small towns of the era had.

the thing is all of these old guys are now dead!, gone are their shops, gone are their machines, gone is their knowledge.

what has replaced them? not a fuckin thing, except for termites, mice, and walmarts.

the saddest thing is the loss of this knowledge, forever gone to us, and worst of all to the younger generation and the kids to come.

Those of us that can build hotrods, customs, etc, are no different than those old men of 40 years ago. We do things that many have not seen or heard of.

If you dont believe that just look at what the younger generation drives, ricers!! billet laden ricers!! store bought bolt on parts, no sense of any craftmanship on their own part. No sense of what they could do, because they havent seen it.

To me that is a fucking crime, we short change ourselves and those that come after us.

Look back at the great ones, Smokie Yunick is just one example of the ones that came before us and left us with so rich of a history, and the blueprints that we follow in so many ways.

Von Dutch travelled the country, and put a striping brush in any kids hand that wanted to try it. Did he ask to be paid?

The question comes to mind what are we leaving, some are doing alot, some are doing shit. They are so in to themselves and their thing that they cant see the bigger picture.

Sometimes you just do it because it is right, doesnt make any difference if you get paid for it or not.

Now granted most of us will never be a Smokey, but most of us have at least one special talent. To share that talent only helps everyone, and the end result is a collective that is larger than the sum of its parts.

I guess i feel blessed in a way to have spent time with many of the old men of 40 years ago, and only wished i would have been older and would have understood the time that they were donating to me to show me how to do their craft. Not once asking me to pay them anything. That is giving of ones self, that is a true gift that can be passed down.

I fully understand that many of you will not agree with me or cannot relate to what i am about to say, but for what it is worth i will say it anyway.

Those that can, have a responcibility to pass on what they know. Sure it takes some time out of your busy lives. God knows i too run a business, have kids, and many other problems related to everyday life.

For what it is worth i have been a mechanic for nearly 30 years professionally and a few as a shade tree before that.
A post was up on this board not long ago asking what you bring to the hamb. It was a good question, many answered in thoughtful ways, some offhanded and some in comical response.
Perhaps more of us should take another look at that post and do a bit more deep thinking about it.

Bottom line is i think that the site in question should be greeted with open arms, sure it won't be perfect, nothing in life is. If anything good comes of it, then a greater good has been served. There are many good sites online with alot of good info, this being one. There are also alot of junk sites that really dont do much good for anyone. Perhaps with some postive attitudes and a little input from the guys that can and do on hamb the new site will be one that is a positive resource.

personally i think that when a person step up to the plate to try to add something such as what is proposed we should get behind it and stop thinking so much about "what the fuck am i getting out of it"

i guess you only get out of something what you put into it.

add me to the list of those that can do a few things very well, and expect me to contribute as i can not expecting a damn thing for it. To me getting what i know how to do into someones hands that can use it or inspire someone to do for themselves is payment enough for me.

ok now, beat the shit out of me i dont really give a shit.

bob

[brutus t maximus]

just a footnote:

speaking for myself only, so if any of you think otherwise that is your purogative. If the shoe fits then wear it!

if i didnt pass on what i have learned from those that came before me, that was freely given to me by them, i would feel like a fucking thief!

bob

[Shiva69]

When i joined i didn't know who vern tardel was, didn't know who mike bishop was, didn't know who jay carnine was.

I live in the NW the hot rod culture up here is removed in many way from california. It is the few that travel and the many that don't.

I know that ironhunter is in the magazine industry. But if you had asked me to remember any authors name forget it.

I probably couldn't remember your name if i met you(bad w/ names, Faces no prob)

Ironhunter (real name forgotten see above) you really need to sit down and think some more about how this is all going togeather. your idea is a good one but needs to be worked out a bit more. it has snags and needs them smoothed out to keep from them biting you later.

And remember never say that ads will not affect you... because you still gotta pay your bills.

AV8 - sorry for my imaturity in this car kulture but i am still learning.

lets not kill the idea but rather help it mature because we won't live forever and "WE MUST NOT LET TRADITION DIE"

Garth

[ironhunter]

[ QUOTE ]
Ironhunter, you my friend are a complete and total ASS! I'd gladly accomodate you with some bitchin' low buck tech stuff, if you can't, then I won't.
Skip



[/ QUOTE ]

Then don't. Makes not one bit of difference to me. I've explained all I'm gonna explain...no shit. I'm through trying to talk to you immature boneheads. (i'm nto referring to the ones of you that are being a bit more mature in your conversation).
Ray

[autocol]

i don't get it ironhunter?

you claim to be very polite, to have the best of intentions etc etc, put in all these nice little happy smiley faces, and yet feel the need to put in cheap shots, like pointing out my accidental, and for the purposes of the argument, utterly irrelevant, double usage of the word "have". http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif (to avoid any confusion, incidentally, that smiley face is meant to convey the message that i think you're being rather hypocritical...)

so, for your information, the following words in your reply posting were spelled incorrectly:

misinterpretaion
enouhb...

there you go, that's one more mistake than i made in my post, so i win.

mate, you can apologise all you like and try to justify what you've written, but from where i'm sitting i see a guy being a sarcastic dick behind his computer...

[ QUOTE ]
Can we have a civilized conversation without the insults? I'm game...

[/ QUOTE ]

no, apparently, we can't...

[ironhunter]

And that is exactly what you want to see. I tried to give you guys the opportunity to be heard and all you do is shit on me. Fine if that is the way its going to be. Some of you just dont get it. Have have was a joke man, get the chip off your shoulder. Geez...wastin my time talkin to a box of rocks

[ironhunter]

Thanks Brutus. Again, you said it right. Exactly what I want to do and looking for a few others that want to do the same thing. I cant seem to do anything but piss'em off and be accused of being impolite. I make a joke and I'm an ass. I'm impolite only when defending myself. Thats why I'm tired of foolin with'em. You're not gonna make'em understand, they aren't going to give it a rest. It's like talking to a fence post.

Anyway, the ones that have PM'ed me and want to be heard and the ones such as yourself who understand what is really going on are the ones I was interested i talking to. The rest are just typing to tire their fingers, wasting their time.
thanks man
Ray

[ironhunter]

shiva, thanks for your understanding as well. As I have told the ones that PM'ed me with offers for material, I am not the only one in this. In fact, my main part in this is setting up the site and maintaining it, and writing a few articles (for which I am not getting paid) along the way with the work I am doing (for which I am getting paid). No, there are no snags except the ones that have been created here. In fact, everything has gone smoothly until I opened the door for traditional input.

That was my suggestion to those who are in control, and I got the ok. Now, they are telling me that they saw this coming and I we should have just kept it closed to professional writers.

The fact that articles are not being paid for at this time is not my decision, yet I am getting all the shit over it. I dont know what is going to happen in the future, but right now it just aint going to happen. Again, not my decision or anything I can control. I thought I had a good idea. I thought if normal guys (like myself) had the opportunity to show their talents and work, they'd jump at the opportunity just as I did. I had many conversations with the chiefs and pleaded for this door to be opened to you guys. I told them that there are some very talented people here and some extremely talented writers. Now, I am being asked where all this talent is.

I have several that have offered to submit some very good material, and for that I thank you very much. Now at least it doesnt appear that I lied when I said there were some good fellas on this board. I just really thought there were more.
Thanks man
Ray

[Luke Jivetalker]

[ QUOTE ]
Ironhunter, you my friend are a complete and total ASS! You want people to send you tech articles and such and expect to give them NOTHING in return, I'd be willing to bet that the advertisers on your site aren't getting thier ads for free, so why in the hell would I give you ANYTHING for free? If you can explain this to me in a fashion that makes sense, I'd gladly accomodate you with some bitchin' low buck tech stuff, if you can't, then I won't.
Skip

PS- AV8 is Mike Bishop, truly one of the most talented and knowledgeable hot rodders, NOT 1-800-Build My Car street rodders on the planet, do some research dingledick http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey, IRONPUSSY! DON'T quote me then edit it to suit your liking, the above quote is what I wrote, not your watered down version.

[ironhunter]

[ QUOTE ]

Hey, IRONPUSSY! DON'T quote me then edit it to suit your liking, the above quote is what I wrote, not your watered down version.

[/ QUOTE ]

blah...blah...blah...
you are a real conversationalist, arent you? Did your momma never teach you that stuff like that just makes you look like a total moron? How old are you anyway? I'm guessing about 12? Close???
Get a life man. You made me laugh, thats about all you accomplished. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Phil1934]

I just clicked on the thread to see if there were any good ideas in 4 pages, and this is all there is? Next HAMB tech question that comes up (and they are getting rarer) you can all e mail your bid proposals to give the correct answer. If you think you shouldn't help anyone without payment, then don't. Just don't bore me with the details. I think it's a great idea, the HAMB without what's your favorite car, should I get a tatoo, and other drunken musings. And yes, there's room for more than one site.

[Gr8ballsofir]

Man, I hate this stuff.

Site with free info, COOL! That's what the internet's sposedta (case of the sposedta's) be about! I think the point is that your gonna have advertising to pay for the site. Isn't content part of the site? You are going to make money off the advertising, You keep avoiding that one, Yet you want free contributions and free parts... They want a piece of your pie.

Ryan, how much do you make off this site??? (rhetorical)

Personally I'd give you free submissions, but they'd be worthless...

[ironhunter]

Nobody is avoiding anything. I have answered that question and wont take the time to type it again. I make a living doing the work, not from the advertising or the site. I dont get paid for articles, neither will anyone else. There is no "pie".

Anyway, as of yesterday there will be no more articles taken at this time...that comes from the top. He said with the attitude I have gotten from this group, he's not interested anymore. What have been submitted to this point are much appreciated, will be used, and credit given in every way.

Thanks Shawn, I'll contact you.

Phil1934. I agree, but I dont think we'll see it in the near future;
the HAMB without what's your favorite car, should I get a tatoo, and other drunken musings.

[plan9]

brutus t maximus ...i agree with you completely.

ironhunter - was worth a shot, sharing info is a good idea.

[brutus t maximus]

plan9:

thank you


ironhunter:

for some of us on the hamb, i would ask to have the decision reconsidered. Please try to understand you will never get everyone together on this issue, and that is not whats important. What is important is that you do what you set out to do. It is a good idea, that needs to be done.

keep up the good fight

bob

[Nads]

Hey ironhunter, donated parts aren't a fact of my life, I wish they were.

[burndup]

Hmmm, interesting.

1. You ask for something for free.

2. Some want to give it to you, some don't.

3. In a round about way, you shit on and badmouth the people who don't.

4. Then you don't take anything for free from anybody.

Damn, homie, looks like you shot yourself in the foot MULTIPLE times!

A person loses a MASSIVE amount of respect here slamming people the way you did. Please take time to consider your actions, and consider apologizing to the appropriate people, thru PM's or something.

And at the very least, for your own enrichment, take the time to learn who Mike Bishop (av8) is.

[ironhunter]

Hey Nads, maybe sometime we can change that. Hell, you didnt jump my case so maybe I can return the favor sometime in the future...

thanks Plan9, yeah, they can't say didnt try.

Brutus, it's not a decision I made. Like I said before, I'm not calling the shots. I got the door opened and the shit that followed got it closed. I don't know what is going to happen, but right now I'm keeping a low profile and doing my job putting it together. There is plenty material without HAMB input and nohing has changed with the site. The only thing I saw necessary about input from here was to get a traditional voice in the mix. I'll let things cool down a few days and see how things progress. I know the majority of this group understood I wasnt asking for anything, I was just passing on the opportunity I was given. He offered to let some fellas be heard, and I jumped at the opportunity and passed it along. I saw it as an opportunity that I'd never get with a paper mag, not a money-making venture. Too bad greed messes up so much.
thanks man
Ray

[brutus t maximus]

ironhunter:

well i would let it rest a while, and see how it developes. There are those that took exception to your presentation or the way you went about it.. hey you cant please everyone all the time.

Shit if you brought enough chocolate ice cream to feed the 3000 plus hambers here, there would be those that would sock you in the snout for not bringing strawberry as well..

i still think it is a good idea, perhaps some repackaging is in order tho'

bob

[**DONOTDELETE**]

why dont the two of you go get a room?

post a link to AV8's book and let those jackoffs buy it and have all the tech they need. That's if he will let you.

move on boys, nothing to see here.

[brutus t maximus]

ahhhhh... "fuck you people"

hahahaahaaaa..... been dying to use that quote!!!

on a serious note, I do understand where this problem originated, and while I don't know AV8 personally or have not followed his career or read his book(s) I will take it on your word that he is the preeminent expert on flathead powered early fords.. I also understand that his original post was a fair question that was obviously over run.

my only point was that, hopefully some good could come from the new tech only site. Mainly because not all of us have, can afford or will likely ever have a flatty powered early ford.

I am not defending a person, but I am standing in defense of the idea.

perhaps I stand alone, wont be the first and likely wont be the last.

oh well!


bob

[Hackerbilt]

I just get the impression that Doc is "using" Ray for his own benefit.
All the work Ray did for him so he could get into the mags is now effectively wasted. Doc has NO contract for mag articles.
I can hear it now...
NO WAIT Ray...We'll make a website and put it all there! Now you can get the recognition YOU DESERVE Ray!
Oh yeah...Did you get my free galvanized floor finished Ray?
We need it for the website!!!
Oh brother.... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I can see you getting burned Ironhunter.
I really hope I'm wrong for your sake.
BTW...
Please don't YELL at me for doubting...I have very fragile emotions! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
Hahahah http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Bill

[warpigg]

wow... i knew there was a reason i didn't open this thread until today...

first class pissing contest!
i think it should be re-titled "soapbox derby"

i particularly liked the part where ironhunter got pissed off like a kid in the park and "took his ball and went home".
well, according to him, i guess his big brother took the ball away, anyway-- who cares? i thought it a class act. Oh wait and then he calls other people immature, even better. i thought i read somewhere that HAMBer input was "a must", oh yeah that was in the title of the thread... guess he meant something else when he typed "input".

and it is not at all his fault (except for the av8 part; that was his fault). i'm sure he had good intentions, but since seemingly nobody could be grown up about it (except for av8, who briefly stood up for himself and left the discussion) it became a massive pissing contest... awesome.

i don't have anything constructive to add to this thread (SO THIS POST SHOULD FIT RIGHT IN http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif ), i just wanted to add fuel to the fire... maybe then i can feel better about wasting my time reading it...

seriously brutus, what is up with the man crush?
peace out
now discuss amongst yourselves.

[warpigg]

oh i almost forgot: sarcasm is mostly lost when things are written, so as a disclaimer please be advised my last post was dripping with it...

so, who has a new tattoo? i wanna see!

[Germ]

You guys should MAKE a BOARD called "MEN WITH VAGINAS(tm): and then eat each other out and have group sex...

SISSY LOLLIES

[Hot Rod To Hell]

Alright. I've been reading this thread and watching how it develops. Ironhunter, you had a pretty good idea coming into this, but you went about it ALL WRONG! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif
You might have been having a bad day or something, but you kinda flew off the handle a little quicker than necessary. I can also see the concern about compensation. I would not expect to be compensated for any information I contributed, but to be honest, I'm sure someone will be making money off of that site. Why should they be paid for my information (by the advertisers), when I am not? See the point? Another thing that kinda bothers me, is manipulating and editing someones words, calling it a quote, and then getting pissed and calling names when you get caught. Maybe you were the one acting 12 in that particular instance...

As for the rest of you guys, would it have really been all that hard to say "No thanks, not for me." or not posted at all? Just seems like everyone around here's on they're fucking <font color="red"> period </font> or something... http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

[ironhunter]

well, lemme see...first off, I'd just like to see this thread die simply to keep it from contributing to the large amount of space taken up by all the junk posts that waste reader's time.

But, some good points have been made;

Hot Rod to Hell Appreciate your more civilized form of criticism and I will try to address it in kind. Yes, I flew off the handle. Unprovoked? Not where I was standing. It was in defense of the unnecessary and untrue accusations made against me. All the man had to do was read the post where I had answered his question. That was all I asked. I dont have to take that kind of ridiculous criticism, and I wont. I didnt want to get in a pissing contest, I really like these guys on this board! Even the ones I have argued with. Hell, we all have opinions. They voiced theirs and I voice mine right back. Deal with me in a polite way and I'll deal with you in kind. Call me names and it's going to come back at ya. I still dont "dislike" any of them. I even like av8! He made an honest mistake by overlooking the answer in a paragraph stuck in a long and rambling post. I wont deny that and I can see where I might have done the same thing. I honestly though that indenting a line showed up in the post, but it doesnt. My mistake, and I take credit for it. I don't think I just "flew of the handle" without just cause.

Changing words and calling it a quote? Not really...I paraphrased a quote, taking the first line of the post and the last line in order to shorten it. It was not manipulated. I added nothing to what he said. Removing the pointless lines from the middle did nothing to change his intentions.

The name calling did not start with me. Read the posts in the order they were posted, and I think you'll see that once again I was intentionally provoked. C'mon...Ironpussy isnt just a bit childish? Arent we beyond that? I didnt take offence to it, I thought it was hilarious that a grown man has to resort to that in order to somehow try and belittle me. Didnt work.

Yes, it was expected that some would just say "no, not interested". That would have been so much easier on everyone, especially the ones that wanted to contribute something. Criticisms, name calling, and accusations of laziness though? C'mon, I expected more from grown men.
Thanks for your comments!


Germ I think you got it right http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

warpigg dont really understtand what you are trying to say, so I'll leave it alone http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Well, except the av8 part. Seems you (and some more) want to stand up for him, when if you will read the posts in order, you'll see that my impoliteness came AFTER he posted his garbage. I dont know whether it is an attempt to gain points with someone or what, I really havent figured that one out yet. To have been my fault, I would have to know in advance what he was going to say in the post, and I would have posted some shittiness directed at him BEFORE he posted his. Didnt happen that way, my friend. Hey, I'm fine with it anyway. He'll get over it as I have. If not, I dont believe mt life will be any different one way or the other. Rather be his friend than his enemy though, as with every other member. Yes, sarcasm is lost in written words, along with anything else that would make a real conversation. Text is no way to have a discussion once it has gotten heated. We read what we want it to say at that point, regardless of the true intentions behind it. Thanks for your comments.

HackerBIll I wont yell because you didnt call me lazy! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif You know, I dont know what will happen. However, the pretty shiny galvanized floor and all the stuff I did to that Dodge was paid for by him. The articles were just perks. I'm getting paid very well for the work I am doing on his 48 Ford too. I'm comfortable with our arrangement for now. I dont do the work on cars for free though. I'll gladly share the info regarding how I did it, but not the actual work. We share such things on here all the time, therefore I thought it was a good idea to compile a lot of that information in articles for the site. I'm getting paid to put the site together, but not for the articles I contribute. Some may see it differently, but I dont see where it hurts me to take a few pictures and sit down with the laptop watching TV with the famlily and type up a story. That part I enjoy doing for nothing. He's a good guy just trying to do something constructive. Sure, he is going to make money from the site and understandably. He owns the 350+ articles that the site is built around. He doesnt "need" other input, but opened up the opportunity for wannabe writers to be heard. He said he knows how hard it is to break into the business and is glad to give a talented writer the space he deserves. His hope is that maybe some will be noticed and have opportunites (finacial) presented them that otherwise would never happen. He wanted amateur work, not professional. The mags are full of that already. My work with him has already landed me two really good projects, along with the task (paid) of building a website for Tanks, Inc. I have gained from working with him and just being associated with him. He, on the other hand, has gotten some work done that up until now he was unable to find anyone that could (or would) do it right. Knowing (and having your name associated with) the right people makes a lot of difference. Again, I thought (thought) it was a good idea to get some HAMBers in on it. Thanks Bill!

low and loud I'd be happy to not only post a link, but put a page on the site with information about his book. There are many books that are going up on the site, including Doc's Nailhead and Cadillac engine books. I would be thrilled to see a traditional book in the list. Problem is (now that I know who "av8" is) I tried to get a book some 10 months back and he never answered my reply. I dont recall calling him lazy though, I just assumed he didnt have time to sell me one. http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif Maybe he answered me and I just didnt take the time to read it? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif thanks man

Fellers, thanks for your input, both positive and negative, support, name-calling, and everything else. If everyone that has called or PM'ed me would have posted, you'd see the supporters and contributers far outweigh the naysayers and name-callers. I know that a lot more of you would be a little bit more understanding if you knew everything that is involved, but a lot of it I am not at liberty to share right now. I'm not a businessman and dont want to give that impression. I'm a car guy with a shop beside my house and I struggle to get my projects going just like most of you. I dont like to fuss and argue, and I dont like making enemies when it's just as easy to make friends. I like talking with you guys about hot rods and customs, otherwise I wouldnt be a member of this group. Oh yeah...av8! If you are following this thread, I'd still buy a book http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif That way I can scan every page and--- I'm jokin!

[Hackerbilt]

OK! Missed the part were you said you were getting paid for the work. Had me a little worried about your situation.
I WILL check out your site once its up and running...

I wouldn't rule out outside involvement in the site already....give it a chance! People are gonna want to see whats up BEFORE they make a firm decision.
Tell the Doc to simmer down...things WILL be cool IF its a good site!

Catch ya later!
Have a good one Ray...

Bill

[av8]

I haven't been following this thread but I have a persistent pal who has encouraged me to look in on it to see where it's gone -- which is nowhere.

Before I get into what I want to say about all this, I want to first address a lie that I was contacted "some 10 months back" about a book and never answered. That's pure bullshit, but how would anyone know otherwise if I did not respond?

I see that recently my post about the ironhunter's laziness of communication has now been elevated to "garbage." Ya gotta love that kind of jump.

I stand by my reference to your laziness in communication; it's incumbent on the communicator, not the audience, to be clear and concise. It's not my responsibility to wade through dense, unbroken, loosely structured copy to find answers and direction. The irony of my calling you lazy for not doing a better job of your end of the communication bargain is that you feel vindicated because I didn't dig through your word Dumpster to find the treasures! That has provided me with one of the best chuckles I've had this week, and I thank you for that.

But let's put all that crap aside because it has nothing to do with anyone other than you and me and how we interact with one another. My quarrel with you posting a solicitation for free features and how-to articles for a sponsor-supported site was that you did it on an unsponsored site, one that's a labor of love by a man who has created and nurtured the very finest site committed to traditional hot rods and customs.

At first I was surprised that you would do what you did, considering the number of posts you've made on the HAMB. But maybe you don't get it, maybe you don't understand what boards like this are about -- pals getting together to share ideas, ask and answer questions, and hang out at times in a place where no one is making a buck off their presence, and in fact might even have to spend a bit to have them here.

What you've been doing here is called "poaching" where I come from. Some might take it a step farther and label it rustling. The sad thing to see here is that you've lured some HAMBers who will willingly provide you with words and pictures about their work rather than post and share them on this board where they hang out -- at no charge to anyone other than Ryan, if I may bring that up again.

Although paid-for technical and scientific communication and journalism are the means with which I've supported myself since the late '50s, I will continue to contribute to sites like the HAMB at no charge and with great enthusiasm and enrgy because that's the way it works for hot rodders, ironhunter.

[4eva4banger]

av8,

As per your writing style that I follow, you could not have written that last reply any better. I think you have summed up why we are here and what has happened in this thread.

Can we all get back to talking about cars now?

[autocol]

good one mike... got it in one...

[ironhunter]

nevermind...it's apparent from your continued hostilities we'll never see eye to eye.
ray

[james]

I tried to wade through this, and I don't get it. Iron is talking about a simple site full of tech. I would never have even thought about compensation, yet a bunch of people jumped in asking how much? Some of us grew up in families where you go to full serve to get the oil checked, didn't go to tech school, and don't know everything there is to know about cars, so we crave pics and how to's. Sure, the mags do how to's on installing the lastest $1,200 chunk of billet, but the net is some people's only choice to learn some skills that may be all but lost in some areas. I really don't have anything to contribute, Iron, but if and when I do, I'll send everything I can, expecting nothing in return (unless you make some decals for the site http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif ). Maybe we could also send you any other sites that have good howto's, then you could, in the directory of articles have links also (like under sectioning you might have a couple people's contributions but also links to other's sites with maybe a different way to do it?) Just an idea. The only thing that pisses me off is the link to your site DOESN"T WORK!! http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif .

[ironhunter]

Thanks James, I appreciate your seeing where this was intended to go, instead of forming your own false opinion of my intentions. You heard exactly what was said.
thanks again
Ray

[Digger_Dave]

[ QUOTE ]
nevermind...it's apparent from your continued hostilities we'll never see eye to eye.
ray

[/ QUOTE ]

Ray, I don't think you understand what Mike (av8) is trying to TELL you. I haven't read any "hostile" comments from him yet.

He has been VERY patient in his response(s).

I see this whole "mess" has come about because of "frayed" nerves and "shooting from the hip."

Each person has made good/bad comments, depending on where they stand.

The BIG problem of all of this is; IF we were ALL in one room, face to face, a lot of the "name calling" would never have happened. Communication by way of the "written" word is difficult; and some of us don't write well.

[Germ]

You want intelligent conversation?
Maybe you should take that "KNOW IT ALL STICK" out of your ass!!

Will your TECH SITE, will be a mere STEPPING STONE to allow you to GET FREE PRODUCT from your advertisers for your "STREET RODS"???? or hot rods, or air streams, or whatever else...

Sounds like what MOST MAGAZINE fags DREAM of?

Sounds like your PLAYING that "I'm a good big brother role"
and in the end it looks like you will GAIN something from others DONATIONS?
What do we get out of it???

OH YEAH "TECH"..

Not sure what your GOALS are, But You just seem to be LOOKING for donations which you will eventually profit from...????
or is that NOT the CASE???

Makes sense to me....

The PROBLEM is YOUR MOTIVES are all WRONG, your FUNCTION is all WRONG, the WAY you PRESENT YOURSELF is WRONG. and your PLAN sounds like it holds no HONEST MERIT....
And the way you speak to people who QUESTION YOU, makes me think your a jerk off.....

BAck to the
USUAL
"MUSINGS OF A TEENAGE HEART THROB"(tm)

DRUNK PROSE
and
HELLFIRE





germ

[james]

Why the hell does he have to have a profit motive? Did everyone hassle Ryan about motive when he started the HAMB? I've got articles saved from all over the net and it'd be great to find a bunch compiled in one place. True, he could probably find a way around the sponsors, but I'm sure Ryan would attest to what a pain it is to finance something like that. I'm just looking forward to a bigger version of the HAMB tech board, and if there are a few ads, so be it. (just no pop ups, or we'll have to hunt you down!)

[Germ]

We don't need a BIGGER version...of "HAMB"

we cover the TECH here we need to cover,, you need more,, maybe you should go somewhere else...

[286merc]

Hmm, I spend all weekend at an air show and I come back here to get my feet on the ground and all I read are air head comments that I would expect from SRS and Mustang sites.

Let the thread die. If Ray has a viable idea and it solidifys then it is time to revisit. For now just all of you cool it.

BTW, Ive been to Rays house and he aint no billet boy, you can quote me on that.

[Curly]

Germ is my hero!
Germ have ya thought about running against Arnold?

[warpigg]

[ QUOTE ]
Why the hell does he have to have a profit motive? Did everyone hassle Ryan about motive when he started the HAMB?

[/ QUOTE ]

no. because people hassled Ryan until he finally gave in and started a message board... you should ask him sometime why it is called the "Hokey Ass Message Board"...

[hotrodladycrusr]

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif A mag guy who didn't know who Mike Bishop is???
Then you probley don't know who I am either, huh? http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[warpigg]

i know, it's almost hubris

[Germ]

Usually when I read a BUSINESS PLAN at WORK, I read FOR MOTIVE, and PURPOSE......

To be really educated and HONEST..

you just CAME off wrong with what you proposed..
And your IDEA, read to me like someone who is trying to START a MAGAZINE..

Most magazine FOLKS have their HEADS up their OWN ASS, when they cant FIND someone HIP to HAVE their HEAD up his ASS.......
They are MOTIVATED by the SELLING ISSUE...

WE HERE ARE NOT........

What you proposed is not
a major Loss...

But I think the IDEA is we are here for WHAT CATERS to us and our BUILDING needs..

ANd our function here is BASED on the DO IT YOURSELF method..
Meaning,, we as a board don't need advertisers or BIASED interests based on WHO is FUNDING the MONEY...
Or FREE PARTS to BRIBE us into DROPPING product NAME...

WE DON'T HAVE to SWALLOW the MEAT POLE that you MAG guys have to....

Go to a STREETROD site. and FIND out HOW CONTROLLED and GENERALLY BORING them DUMB BASTARDS really ARE......

We don't want OUR board to READ like the MAGAZINES, and BECOME POLITICALLY MOTIVATED, based on WHO SPENDS the MOST, to KEEP US up and RUNNING.......

We asked RYAN years ago, for TECH OMATIC,,,
and we ASK RYAN to INCLUDE things we FEEL are very important to us KNOWLEDGE WISE.
The TECH that comes HERE is for "US" that is why we as a collective group of LOSERS are here...

WE SHARE. WE HAVE our OWN ARCHIVES, FOR us...

WHat the HELL ELSE do WE NEED?????
and HOW is what your DOING anything different then OUR TECH O MATIC?????????

Can you EXPLAIN that? This seems INTELLIGENT enough???

I need to go smoke some weed, i think I'm going crazy..

[Spike!]

God bless Germ.

Amen

Spike

[ironhunter]

Germ, I'm not disagreeing with you, because you have misunderstood my intentions. I'm into the same kind of stuff you are, not billet. Again, I didnt "want" anything from anybody. Just hoped to see the site go somewhere other than where you expect it to go. I dont want to see any tech site that looks like a billet-pushin mag.

Thanks Merc, I'm glad somebody knows me and what I really am.

AS of this morning, I'm off the project anyway. The site has been turned over to another developer. Again, not my choice, but I think I stirred too much shit trying to keep it a real tech site and not, as James put it, "how to's on installing the lastest $1,200 chunk of billet". I'm out of the picture as far as what its going to be.

For you that keep crawlin me, I know that you did not understand where I was at in this. For the last time, I wanted HAMBers to have a part in it only to keep it from being overrun by the other stuff that you and I dont like. I wasnt poaching or whatever else I have been accused of. I wasnt trying to take material or members away from this group. THis is the only group of fellas that I know who have (and are not afraid to voice) a traditional opinion so this is where I came looking.
Sorry I failed in getting that voice heard.
Ray

[286merc]

Ray, as long as I got your attention I need a shipping cost for those bumpers. Id like to get them here in time to bury under the snow http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Those wire wheels I got from you turned out great. I straightened them, blasted and painted. They were donated to a friend who is using them on a parade float that also doubles as a Halloween hayride wagon. No high speed balance required http://www.jalopyjournal.com/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif

And dont feel bad, I never heard of Mike Bishop either before I joined HAMB. I dont waste a bunch of money on magazines or books that pretty much recyle stuff that was written decades ago (I have an extensive collection of books and mags going back into the late 40's) so it is easy to miss some authors. The HAMB is so far superior for tech stuff that the mags arent even in the running.

[ESnacky6]

Title of Ironhunter's original post:

Articles wanted for WebRodder.com, HAMBer input a must!


'Recent' quote from Ironhunter:

Again, I didnt "want" anything from anybody.



sounds a little contradictory to me...regardless of 'intent'...




Like Germ said...and I agree...

Instead of 'contributing' to yet another website,
everybody who has a good tech article, get off yer ass,
write it up, add pictures, and submit it for the HAMB..!!

[brutus t maximus]

Snacky:

i am with you on that,, i guess i just havent seen much happening in the tech dept of the hamb, but then again i havent checked there for a while,, my fault ..

i like the idea of a fully developed tech section,, and i would be more that willing to submit some stuff.

guess i will check the hamb tech section, and see whats up..

bob

[ironhunter]

yes, write it up and contribute it to the HAMB. I never said anything to contradict that. Why is it not fair ti think that a tech article can be contributed to more than one place?

Contradictory? Well, you take what you read and make it what you want it to say. it is contradictory in the pre-conceived context that some have, thinking I want somthing for nothing. In the context of what I was trying to do, theres no contradiction.

How many ways can I say it? Input was a "must" in my opinion to keep the site from falling of the billet cliff. Sure, I "wanted" material, but not for my benefit. I'm with you guys 100% in trying to keep the traditional voice from being drowned out. Maybe I went about it all wrong, yah, I'm sure now I did by asking this group to help me (us) keep a voice in the site. If you want to support only one site, for Gods sake support the HAMB! I never said anything contrary to that. If you want to support our ideas and style of vehicle, it might be a good idea to get out of your little box. The other sites are what they are because of "who" contributes to them. I (we) had a chance to make a difference.

Anyway, the subject is dead...deceased..over. Like I have already said, I've been removed and replaced from the project. There's really no more reason for this thread to go on.
Ray

[fordiac]

I like cars......